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Dot Studio conversion to my own Custom Dot?

Bad Juju

By Bad Juju
in Epiphone Electrics

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Bad Juju

Bad Juju

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I did a search both on this forum and with Google but could not find any information regarding the conversion of a Dot Studio to a standard Dot. Has anyone here done this? I doubt that I am not the first one to think about this.

 

I was thinking that if I could pick up a cheap Dot Studio or even a project guitar that I could sand refinish and install the hardware that I really want. Am I correct in thinking that the only real modification needed (besides hardware) to the body would be the two extra holes needed for the extra volume and tone pots?

 

I have been imagining a Dot with a black cherry burst (deep red fading to black at the edges), some GFS Mean 90s for PUPS, and a Bigsby.

 

The satin finish on the Studio should be easier to sand than the poly on the standard, right? The Studio top is non veneered mahogany so I shouldn't have to worry about burn through. I know... the body is still laminated.

 

Anyway... thoughts, anyone?

 

EDIT: After studying the pots location on the Studio I think it would be better (and easier) to keep just the single volume and tone. Simpler is better, right? [crying]

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peeper

peeper

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Better simpler and cheaper is to buy the standard dot to begin with.

 

Electronics, inlays, binding, finishing, construction, they are really nothign alike. They both are shaped roughly the same, thats where the similarities end.

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Bad Juju

Bad Juju

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The point of this project isn't really to convert a Dot Studio to a Dot Standard. It's to take an inexpensive but fair quality guitar (and recent Dots are actually pretty good guitars) and change it into something more personal. I'm not considering this project in order to affect the value of the guitar (before or after). I'm considering this project because I like the Dot that I play now but I think it would be cool to have a guitar that I have put at least some effort into the way it looks and plays. Let's face it. I'm not nor ever will be a luthier. This is a project for fun.

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brianh

brianh

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The satin finish on the Studio should be easier to sand than the poly on the standard' date=' right? The Studio top is non veneered mahogany so I shouldn't have to worry about burn through. I know... the body is still laminated.

 

Anyway... thoughts, anyone?

 

EDIT: After studying the pots location on the Studio I think it would be better (and easier) to keep just the single volume and tone. Simpler is better, right? :-k[/quote']

All Dots have laminated tops AFIAK.

 

The new hardware and even drilling out for extra vol/tone controls is relatively easy. Putting a passable SB finish on a guitar is not.

 

I have yet to see a forum member post pics of a refinish job they did themselves that wasn't a solid color and didn't involve Krylon rattle cans.

 

Whatever you decide, please post pics of your progress.

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Bad Juju

Bad Juju

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I would have guessed laminated as well. However, the Epiphone website says that the top is "Mahogany" and the body is "Laminated Mahogany". I take that to mean that the top is NOT laminated. Maybe I am reading too much into the description. :-k

 

So, I guess what I should take away is that I should just be careful with my sanding just to be sure that i don't burn through the top layer in case the top is actually laminated. :)

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peeper

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Very much so. You need to learn more before even attempting this. This is something you couldn't pay me enough to do, so perhaps you should start off with something a bit more reasonable and then refinish it in several years after you have a little experience in those things.

Just up one day doing it will not end well. I am currently crossing my fingers for another forum member who is stripping his Casino at the moment.

 

Start small. Build up to what you are talking about, or ruin the guitar. The only way you learn is by messing up a bunch of stuff first sometimes.

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Bad Juju

Bad Juju

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I have yet to see a forum member post pics of a refinish job they did themselves that wasn't a solid color and didn't involve Krylon rattle cans.

 

I have been reading a lot of posts on The Guitar Refinishing and Restoration Forum. I have seen a lot of pretty incredible work on there from people who are not luthiers. I know that a sunburst is pretty tough to accomplish. But that doesn't necessarily make me want to not try it. Actually it makes me more eager to try it. I am fortunate that I can afford to buy (although pretty low grade) a compressor and air brush/gun for the job. I actually have some other projects that I would use it for. And what's the worst that could happen if I screw up the burst? I try it again or decide to just go with a solid color. :-k

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brianh

brianh

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And what's the worst that could happen if I screw up the burst? I try it again or decide to just go with a solid color. :-k

Nothing wrong with it at all if you have the right gear and aren't afraid to fail. You can buy a Dot studio on CL for $200, so it's not like you're risking a vintage '66 Casino or an ES-335 to "learn" on.

 

I'd love to see a sow's ear turned into a silk purse on this forum... (so to speak)

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Bad Juju

Bad Juju

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You'll never get it to Standard Specs.......

I don't expect it to be at standard specs.

 

the studio is mahogany....

Yep. See above.

 

the standard is maple....

Yep.

 

plus the input jacks are in different places

Yep. See above.

 

so if you made a studio into a standard it wouldnt be the same guitar

I recognize that. See above.

 

The point of this project isn't really to convert a Dot Studio to a Dot Standard. It's to take an inexpensive but fair quality guitar (and recent Dots are actually pretty good guitars) and change it into something more personal. I'm not considering this project in order to affect the value of the guitar (before or after). I'm considering this project because I like the Dot that I play now but I think it would be cool to have a guitar that I have put at least some effort into the way it looks and plays. Let's face it. I'm not nor ever will be a luthier. This is a project for fun.
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Bad Juju

Bad Juju

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Very much so. You need to learn more before even attempting this. This is something you couldn't pay me enough to do' date=' so perhaps you should start off with something a bit more reasonable and then refinish it in several years after you have a little experience in those things.

Just up one day doing it will not end well. I am currently crossing my fingers for another forum member who is stripping his Casino at the moment.

 

Start small. Build up to what you are talking about, or ruin the guitar. The only way you learn is by messing up a bunch of stuff first sometimes.[/quote']

 

Yes! Exactly! I'm not afraid to mess up a little on this project. I may ruin the guitar but I'm talking about a inexpensive (relatively) project guitar, not a "'66 Casino or an ES-335" like brianh stated.

 

I've been following the Casino thread as well. Anthony_JB seems to be doing a great (and very careful) job with his Casino. Look, I recognize that you do this for a living and have a lot of experience. I know that you are warning me (and Anthony_JB) about the pitfalls based on years of experience. I have no delusions that I am any kind of a great woodworker or luthier. But I do have a desire to learn and am willing to possibly fail. Again, I am doing this for fun.

 

Perhaps I won't go for a full burst but I am certainly going to consider it. Another option I would consider is to stain the wood and then apply the poly. I can spray a car. I can probably figure out how to spray a guitar. Scrap wood is pretty useful for practice. :)

 

So far I haven't been talked out of this project... but then I haven't found a good donor Dot Studio, either. :)

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peeper

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The actual spraying is the easiest part. Prepping the surface is the hardest, followed by proper curing environment, and buffing.

 

After you get the finish off, you have to prep the surface, on a laminate guitar, that gives you very little room to obtain a suitable surface to take the finish. Skimp here and no matter what you do from this point on it will not look good. Go to far here, and you eat through a ply and it will look even worse than if you don't sand well enough. It CAN be done, but the chances of it getting pulled ff without and mistakes is slim. And any mistake will be ugly.

 

If you want to get your feet wet may I suggest a solidbody? They are much more forgiving, and suited to your level of skill. I want you to be successful, start slow. If you bite off too much you'll choke and won't like this pie anymore.

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brianh

brianh

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Banastre

Banastre

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EDIT:sorry for the wide post.

 

Bad Juju, I personally say go for it. With respect to to all opinions stated, and that is sincere, give it a try.

It's your guitar. You want it the way you want it, so I say make it happen! People take neck pups off a Tele to make them into Esquires (and vice-verca), put Gibson humbucker on a Fender, and even put Floyd Rose's on Les Pauls.

The list is endless.

I am having the same issue with a Sheraton burst that I want to be natural, but I am leaning to keep it a burst and re-sell it to get what I want, so take my advice with a grain of hyprcritical salt.

 

If you want it a certain way, and are willing to learn as you go, then go for it. With the laminate, yes you certainly have to be careful.

Don't attack it with 80 grit, but be gentle with 80 grit. You see bare wood, move to a different spot. It has to be by hand, no disk sanders. It's gonna take time, lots of it, but if you want

it go for it. Like Musikron said, the stripping-off is the hard part, the REALLY hard and careful and meticulous part- the color and finish are the 'fun' part.

You mess that up there is always lacquer thinner to easily strip and start over. My burst took 4 tries, but it was in 3 days. The miracle of nitro...and lacquer thinner..

After the bare wood is sufficiently clean there is Sand and Sealer to help out rough spots. I wouldn't sand at the recommended 220 on a laminate, but maybe 400, maybe 600.

That means, I'd get the poly off with 80 or even 120 for more control (but lots more paper and time), then jump to 600 or 400 or 320, to get the ridges off, then S n S.

Enough coats of sand and sealer can go a long way to correct issues, trust me. Deft S n S is nitro, and dries in about 2 hours, at $5 a can where I live.

That allows me to put on 3-4 coats a day if I have to.

There is also the use of 'drop-fill' for a deep gouge.

 

 

 

Research, research, research.

 

I am a member of the ReRanch forum and the MyLesPaul forum. Those places inspired me to take the plunge years ago and do my own.

Two Teles, maybe a Sheraton II(still undecided on that), and a 59 LP scratchbuild.

Not a kit, from scratch, and I'm NOT a luthier. The two Teles used ReRanch spraybombs, the LP I invested in spray equipment.

Dyed the bare wood using alcohol dyes from Stew-Mac, then all nitro for the burst (hence I was easily able to strip it back to the yellow only). Decent compressor and the $14 detail spray guns from Harbor Freight. Never did a burst before, but I got it right.

It's a little dark in the pic, since I took it in the shade to prevent glare. More of a honey burst, with less red now that I've let the UV rays of the sun fade it a bit.

Lester090.jpg

If you go the ReRanch way follow the 'refinishing 101' found on the home-page and you WILL do fine.

Rule of threes.

And research research research.

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brianh

brianh

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I think you will find it easier to chip off the poly' date=' rather than sand or chemically strip it off. Personal experience, all of it bad. One inch wood chisel with a comfortable handle works best.[/quote']

You can't be serious, that WILL ruin the guitar beyond all hope. Chipping poly off with a chisel will gouge the hell out of any wooden instrument.

 

Two Teles' date=' maybe a Sheraton II(still undecided on that), and a 59 LP scratchbuild.

Not a kit, from scratch, and I'm NOT a luthier. The two Teles used ReRanch spraybombs, the LP I invested in spray equipment.

Dyed the bare wood using alcohol dyes from Stew-Mac, then all nitro for the burst (hence I was easily able to strip it back to the yellow only). Decent compressor and the $14 detail spray guns from Harbor Freight. Never did a burst before, but I got it right. [/quote']

Banastre, your points are well taken, and your results speak for themselves. BUT your work so far is on solid body guitars, and semis are another matter entirely. It's not the repainting - it's how to get the poly off without sanding through the thin ply or using a heat gun and loosening the glue joints to the point where the guitar falls apart.

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Banastre

Banastre

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brianh, yup, you're totally correct.

 

My input was more of a 'this is what I'd try based on what I know, have done and have read' and should be taken with caution.

Ply is deffinately tricky material!

However, I have to encourage the attempt. Bad Juju should probably practice by puting some light coats of cheap spraypaint and lots of cheap poly on some small cheap plywood, then practice sanding it to get a feel. The poly is not going to be the same as instrument poly (plastic) but he'd get an idea what he's in for and a sense of how much is too much. If he's still willing to hit the guitar, then I'd say start at the horns or some edge where the dark part of the burst could hide a flaw. A sand-though there, if small enough, could be hidden and leveled by some grain filler or suitable putty.

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