'64 Cortez in Kutztown

[brianh]

Just came on, seems lower than market...

 

http://reading.craigslist.org/msg/1841631326.html

[TP]

Can't say I know much about the Cortez, but if this one is real (which I guess I doubt after looking at the photos of the 64 on Craigslist in the ad you posted); it would be a steal next to the price of the other!

 

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/msg/1783607624.html

[Ship of fools]

No it seems to be right on the market line and even some wiggle room for negotiations on the price from the pics it looks to be in average shape so the price is right for the pickings.

Hey Paul its not a real Cortez ( just a re-use of the name ) those were made from 72-78 and are commonly referred to as a F-135 and one in excellent shape would sell for about $150-175. they are all laminate even though he lists it as a solid rosewood back/side its actually mahogany laminate and a spruce laminate top.ship

[JEPI]

This is a '65 Cortez FT45N. (N = natural). It has solid mahogany back and sides. (EDIT.... or is it rosewood?? I dunno). I replaced the adjustable bridge in '93 and had a Fishman pickup installed. Still a nice guitar...EDIT... No way I'd sell it for a mere $200.. NO WAY!................J

 

[Ship of fools]

Hey JEPI I wouldn't sell that 65 Cortez for $200.00 either and its not Mahogany or Rosewood...........................................its Walnut back and side with a cherry neck, its to bad that you had the saddle replaced it does drop the value a touch. but over all a very nice 00style guit, me I have more of a prefrence for the sunburst from that year.ship

[JEPI]

I really didn't want to change the bridge, but at the time it was the only guitar that had the sound that I needed and the stock bridge wasn't quite right. So the story goes. Walnut huh? Works for me! I've had it since 1970 and it was given to me. Thanks...........J

[pohatu771]

Hey JEPI I wouldn't sell that 65 Cortez for $200.00 either and its not Mahogany or Rosewood...........................................its Walnut back and side with a cherry neck' date=' its to bad that you had the saddle replaced it does drop the value a touch. but over all a very nice 00style guit, me I have more of a prefrence for the sunburst from that year.ship[/quote']

I don't think it reduces value at all, actually. A 1965 would have a plastic bridge. If a plastic bridge on a guitar hasn't been replaced by now, it should be. In auctions selling these guitars, if the seller knows anything about them, the listing either say that the plastic has been removed or that it should be removed.

 

Also, according to the 1966 Epiphone catalog, the Cortez is Spruce and Mahogany.

[Ship of fools]

Well mine was Walnut, but the Sunburst model did have Mahogany ( but his is not the sunburst ) so I have to go by that, and it had an adjustable bridge saddle, so yes it does lower the value some by swapping out the adjustable for a fixed saddle, not everybody buys these to play there are many buyers out ther right now who want them to be completely original with the older adj. saddles.ship

[Ship of fools]

Here is a guy that is really streeeeeeeeeeching the market value of a Cortez. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960s-Acoustic-EPIPHONE-FT45N-CORTEZ-GUITAR-/220633357925?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Guitar&hash=item335ec5de65

Ship

[Ship of fools]

Sent him a question as to how they came up with that figure of $3100 and noticed today they dropped the price down to $2700. still over priced but they were willing to take a price back to the owner, so if any of you are interested make them an offer thats more in line with the true value of a Cortez in medium shape.Ship

[brianh]

The Kutztown seller is still tryin': http://reading.craigslist.org/msg/1866032041.html

 

Ship / Eric, is this really a $1,200+ guitar? What do you think is a realistic price for it in a private cash sale?

[TommyK]

Here is a guy that is really streeeeeeeeeeching the market value of a Cortez. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960s-Acoustic-EPIPHONE-FT45N-CORTEZ-GUITAR-/220633357925?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Guitar&hash=item335ec5de65

Ship

 

I've lost track of the several guitars being talked about. I do not see anything that makes me believe this is not a FT45 Cortez. It is definitely NOT an FT135 Cortez.

 

The shape looks right for a pre-Norlin Cortez, as does the pick guard and what appears to be blue haze on the plastic bridge which was used in this era . From what I can see of the blue label, there is, what appears to be, text in the lower right where a K'zoo Cortez would read, "Union Made".

 

If you are trying to sell something for that kind of scratch, a camera phone is the poorest excuse for picture taking.

 

I wouldn't buy just because he wasn't proud enough of it to take and post real photographs. Who knows what flaws are being masked by those fuzzy distance shots.

 

What is Kutztown? An antique shop?

[zombywoof]

If Epiphones follow Gibsons though, I would expect a higher price on a '64 Cortez than one made even just one year later because of the neck profile and headstock pitch.

[Ship of fools]

Just from the pics alone I wouldn't come near that price, in average shape they may sell for 650-800 ( which may seem undervalued but we are going by the number of guitars on the market and the many more to come as the economy flounders more, as the gulf suffers more we see more guitars going up for sale out of some of those area's at bargin prices driving the market down even more ) eventually the true vlaue will come back up, but as TommyK said also if he can't be bothered to take better photo's, makes me wonder what he is hiding or not wanting to share and doesn't mention that he would send more photo's if needed, if you are selling you must include that more photo's are available to the potential buyer.Ship.............I think Kutztown is an area

[brianh]

Thanks Ship.

 

Kutztown is a ~5,000 resident borough founded by George (Coots) Kutz in 1755 about 70 miles northwest of Philadelphia, most noted for Kutztown University and the Kutztown Folk Festival:

 

http://www.kutztownboro.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutztown,_Pennsylvania

[Ship of fools]

Travelled through there many years ago with an old friend Lenny B and thats all I remember of that time.Ship..................You should see this other guitar that the guy selling the Cortez, and he wants $1395 for this one and its a real piece of junk that the owner claims is a valuable guitar that someone years later added the cheap paint graphics to , its a stupid kids guitar that shouldn't even be offered for sale let alone for so much.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1950s-Acoustic-6-String-PALM-BEACH-Guitar-/320566083861?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Guitar&hash=item4aa33a4115

[zombywoof]

You should see this other guitar that the guy selling the Cortez' date=' and he wants $1395 for this one and its a real piece of junk that the owner claims is a valuable guitar that someone years later added the cheap paint graphics to , its a stupid kids guitar that shouldn't even be offered for sale let alone for so much.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1950s-Acoustic-6-String-PALM-BEACH-Guitar-/320566083861?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Guitar&hash=item4aa33a4115[/quote']

 

 

A Stella badged Harmony by any other name....

[Ship of fools]

You got that right Zomby and then to say that some store told her that it was worth over $3,000.00 give me a ( barf bag inserted here ) break and from a fellow canadian too, what a sad day for Nova Scotia.ship

[TommyK]

Definitely a re-branded Harmony Stella.

 

Definitely NOT of Caribbean origin, unless the wood is luan, aka laminated Honduran mahogany.

 

The graphics look to be OEM. They had a cowboy version as well.

 

I suspect that some shop in Palm Beach, Florida, made a special purchase of these, from Chicago Music Instrument Company, to sell as tourist guitars. Elvis played a sunbursted one like this, sans the graphics, in the movie, "Follow That Dream". It had similarly high action. And... it sounded like an electrified guitar ... well in the movie anyways.

 

The tuners with applied gudgeons, as opposed to a metal stamping with hooks, tell me that the age he states is close.

 

"#1 of 3 of a series" There were, at various times, 2 or 3 'art work' guitars offered. This tells me he is familiar with the Harmony line and what it's worth is.

 

While not very valuable, Harmony made guitars of this caliber, especially with graphics, are more than junk, but valued, primarily, for their pop culture value. $50.00 tops

 

Not even an unelectrified Patrician or Sovereign command this kind of money.

[brianh]

I'd never heard the term "gudgeon" before, had to look it up. Apparently a gudgeon goes together with a pintle to form a type of bearing. And there are even "winged gudgeons".

 

Looks like the part is borrowed mostly from the construction and sailing trades. I would have called it a ferrule or bushing, but that would have been wrong.

 

Always something to learn here at the forum, thanks TK and all.

[Bardman]

Hi to all, I just purchased a Bard FT150 that I have absolutely fallen in love with. I need more info on that but I will start another thread on it later.

 

I have had a Cortez FT45 for several years now. I purchased it for $450 from the original owner who took lessons for a year and then put it in a closet until I got it. It is in VERY good condition. I also got the purchase order receipt which included a 4 payment schedule. It cost $158.62 with tax. It's dated 8-19-65.

 

This is a great guitar. It does have the plastic bridge which is screwed to the top. I had to tighten the screws and added a little glue which worked out well. This is a very nice sounding guitar. I am not sure about being laminate but it seams to me to be mahogany with a spruce top.

 

If anyone has any questions I would be glad to help since it is so well documented. I even have the original books from her lessons. I can take some pics as well. I have refrained from putting in a pickup or changing the bridge since it is so nice and has the documents. I changed the adjustable saddle on my Bard and that really woke it up. A Fishman Matrix Infinity is going in the Bard this week.

 

I am a Gibson player with a 71 Dove and 74 Hummingbird. The Bard isn't far behind these and the Cortez isn't far behind the Bard. They both have surprised me a good bit.

[TommyK]

I'd never heard the term "gudgeon" before' date=' had to look it up. Apparently a gudgeon goes together with a pintle to form a type of bearing. And there are even "winged gudgeons".

 

Looks like the part is borrowed mostly from the construction and sailing trades. I would have called it a ferrule or bushing, but that would have been wrong.

 

Always something to learn here at the forum, thanks TK and all.[/quote']

 

I learned that one years ago. I knew what a trunnion was, but 'trunnion holder' other people were using just didn't sound right. Found it in Webster's Dictionary years ago.

[TommyK]

Congrats on the Epiphone scores, Bardman.

 

The FT45 is indeed a very nice Pre-Norlin Epiphone. I.E. US, Kalamazoo made. The FT150, is a different animal. Made in Japan by Matsumoku from about 1972 to about 1979 or 1980.

 

The FT150, with block fret markers and rosette work, was a fancier version of my FT145SB. Like the FT145, it had a bolt-on neck (adjustable neck).

 

While "Bard" usually indicates a 12 string guitar, the 150 was a 6 wire. The word "Bard" on your FT150 may indicate the body was replaced under warranty. This vintage of Epiphones with bolt-on necks, as with my FT145, had a weak neck block joint, prone to failure. Some customers, who bought theirs new, had theirs fixed under warranty. My guess is they used a stronger 12 string body an FT160 or FT165.

[Bardman]

Thanks for the info Tommy. I really like the sound of both these guitars. I will get some pics up soon.

[zombywoof]

I would actually expect a '65 Cortez to outshine 1970s Gibsons which sported some of the heaviest top bracing (the dreaded Norlin-era "double bracing") ever seen on the face of the planet.