to change - or - not to change

[Guest CheapShoes]

Hello - I'm still fairly new to my used 07 Epi LP Standard. I normally play a mix of pop syles from country to 70s rock. To me the pickups on the LP are ... somewhat unusual. With clean or edge-of-break up amp settings, they sound rather dry & brittle (dull, lacking chime or harmonic content), but when I hit the gain, or use the OCD box, the bridge sounds fantastic, w/tons of sweeness & harmonics. I can't figure out how this makes sense, unless it's a normal character of LPs. Other guitars I have (not LPs) with Duncan's to high-end Tele PUPs sound somewhat the opposite. They typically sound best with with the amp set cleaner to the edge of breakup w/hair when you turn it up or hit the strings hard. Think 70s pop. But not the Epi LP.

 

So, anyone else with similar music interests make the same observations? Did you discover a magic PUP adjustment, or resign to using the guitar to where it shines and put it on the bench for the cleaner tunes? Or did you jump straight to swapping the PUPs?

 

Thanks for any help.

[Whitmore Willy]

CS,

 

Hope all is well. As to your Paul, it is kind of hard to diagnose sound according to a written description.

I will say that sound, being relative to the listener, can change with type/age/gauge and height of strings.

Same can be said for pickup height.

Have you tried adjusting your pickup heights? (making an presumption that you have production humbuckers in your Paul.)

 

I can tell you that I have a "05" Standard and I considered the sound somewhat "muddy" and undefined when playing

clean.

I changed out the electronics and it was a tad better but not much.

I then switched out the production pickups to GFS vintage 59's. The actual sound was not much different...but...

I suddenly had clarity and definition in the sound that was not there before.

 

Willy

[Versatile]

Hello - I'm still fairly new to my used 07 Epi LP Standard. I normally play a mix of pop syles from country to 70s rock. To me the pickups on the LP are ... somewhat unusual. With clean or edge-of-break up amp settings, they sound rather dry & brittle (dull, lacking chime or harmonic content), but when I hit the gain, or use the OCD box, the bridge sounds fantastic, w/tons of sweeness & harmonics. I can't figure out how this makes sense, unless it's a normal character of LPs. Other guitars I have (not LPs) with Duncan's to high-end Tele PUPs sound somewhat the opposite. They typically sound best with with the amp set cleaner to the edge of breakup w/hair when you turn it up or hit the strings hard. Think 70s pop. But not the Epi LP.

 

So, anyone else with similar music interests make the same observations? Did you discover a magic PUP adjustment, or resign to using the guitar to where it shines and put it on the bench for the cleaner tunes? Or did you jump straight to swapping the PUPs?

 

Thanks for any help.

I've played many LP guitars over the years, Gibson and Epi at various price points and would tend to agree that they come alive in high gain situations. I have never enjoyed playing any of them clean and can't think of anybody famous who features a clean LP tone, except the great Les Paul himself ! I always gravitate to a Tele/Strat or a semi (either hollow or centre block, S/C or H/B) for a satisfying clean sound with a Fender DeLuxe or similar amp with a good clean channel.

[marvar]

Yes, Les Pauls do respond a bit differently, they have more mass than most other guitars, but with all due respect, most Epiphone pickups are marginal at best. One of the first and most popular upgrades done to most Epi's is replace the electronics and pickups, to better suite both the guitar and the players needs, and make it somewhat more dependable.

And so your tone quest begins!.....

[mud guy]

I actually think the epi pickups are ok, but maybe some of the other electronics are lacking (like the flaky pickup selector on my dot). I think phil X sums it up pretty well about his stock sheraton (fast foward to ~7:30 if you don't want to see the rest of his guitars.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bztv9BcGeVc

[Guest CheapShoes]

Thanks everyone. Willy: yes, these are the OEM from the China factory, the bridge has a HOTCH sticker and is upper-midrangy (not very hi-fidelity when playing clean). Yep, I mostly use 10-20W tube amps with good clean channels w/crunch capability. These PUPs seem fairly low output despite decent Ohms, so I naturally tend to creep them up closer to the strings for more snap, but that may not be what is happening in reality, and I'll mess around with them some more. I have a new Fralin PAF 8.3K sitting on the bench itching to go in, but don't want to change it out if it's not necessarily going to make this a new guitar, or if I lose something important going from 13.5K to a 8.3K in the bridge. In reality, my Teles have limitations too -- amazing both clean or dirty, but simply aren't going to do REO Speedwagon or Journey tunes justice -- hence the LP.

 

CS

[amx05462]

mine was very muddy till i did a capacitor change to 033.

[audiomitch]

I have never enjoyed playing any of them clean and can't think of anybody famous who features a clean LP tone, except the great Les Paul himself !

 

Dicky Betts used to get some gorgeous clean tones with a Les Paul. Also, Peter Frampton used to get some nice clean tones back when he was playing an LP.

[audiomitch]

Thanks everyone. Willy: yes, these are the OEM from the China factory, the bridge has a HOTCH sticker and is upper-midrangy (not very hi-fidelity when playing clean). Yep, I mostly use 10-20W tube amps with good clean channels w/crunch capability. These PUPs seem fairly low output despite decent Ohms, so I naturally tend to creep them up closer to the strings for more snap, but that may not be what is happening in reality, and I'll mess around with them some more. I have a new Fralin PAF 8.3K sitting on the bench itching to go in, but don't want to change it out if it's not necessarily going to make this a new guitar, or if I lose something important going from 13.5K to a 8.3K in the bridge. In reality, my Teles have limitations too -- amazing both clean or dirty, but simply aren't going to do REO Speedwagon or Journey tunes justice -- hence the LP.

 

CS

 

If you get them too close you'll get weird behavior too. Try 1/8" at the bass side and 3/32" at the treble side. That's a generic setup and you can adjust from there. Try more distance instead of less and see how the clean tone evolves.

[Versatile]

Dicky Betts used to get some gorgeous clean tones with a Les Paul. Also, Peter Frampton used to get some nice clean tones back when he was playing an LP.

Yes good to be reminded of Frampton's playing...he played some nice Ovation accoustic things too.

[Guest CheapShoes]

amx: that sounds like a great, easy option.

However, when I looked inside, the OEM capacitor is a .022uF polyester cap on both PUPs. Were your OEM caps a higher value to begin with?

The effect of raising to .033uF should either be nil if the tone knob is disengaged (and the pot doesn't leak), or slightly increased muddiness if there is some leakage. I have some caps laying around I can use, but I'm trying to figure why raising the filter value would reduce muddiness before for I heat up the iron - unless the OEM caps are doing something weird. No signal passes through the tone caps other than to ground. CS