suburude63 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 This is the one that needs a neck reset! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Looks like a top crack below the bridge as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Top crack below bridge, crack running parallel to fret board on right side, needs neck reset, and refret.......quite a few dollars, Sub.....I think there are better examples out there, unless you are getting this for a song..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 A great looking guitar! I love the black with firestipe pickguard look (almost as much as the black with white pickguard look!) A couple of cracks + needs neck reset = par for the vintage course. If those things bother you, stay away from vintage guitars. But, I love the mystique/mojo of old wood. Factor in the price of a neck reset (by a good luthier) and the market value of the guitar given its issues, and, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburude63 Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 Top crack below bridge, crack running parallel to fret board on right side, needs neck reset, and refret.......quite a few dollars, Sub.....I think there are better examples out there, unless you are getting this for a song..... That is not a crack running parallel to the fret board. It does need a neck reset but why do you say it needs a refret? Maybe a leveling of frets? The crack below the bridge is stable crack above the center brace? What exactly Wily is a song ???? Have you seen the price of these babys lately ? What would you pay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburude63 Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 What is a good price on one of these??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 That is not a crack running parallel to the fret board. It does need a neck reset but why do you say it needs a refret? Maybe a leveling of frets? The crack below the bridge is stable crack above the center brace? What exactly Wily is a song ???? Have you seen the price of these babys lately ? What would you pay ? Sub, to be safe, I would expect this to cost at least $1000 less than the same guitar that didn't need any work. To me, that would be a song. Most vintage guitars I see on CL at least, the guys post them at the MAX price for the guitar based on the highest blue book they can find for EXCELLENT condition, even if their's is crapola. I've seen many many guitars at vintage guitar shows, that are in better shape than the photos you've posted, but in the end, it is always about tone and sound. My buddy who collects Vintage guitars, says that usually the ones that are beat visually, are often the best sounding. And I agree, beat is one thing, but needing a lot of structural repairs, that is another thing. Cleating the top, replacing the bridge, resetting the neck....etc, can affect tone and volume. So if it is a good sounding guitar, great. I prefer to let OTHERS do the repairs, and THEN see how it sounds. When you do the repairs, you have to be happy with the sound, no matter what the final outcome is. That's all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Good points made by OWF. Are you buying this more from the perspective of a player or a collector? I'm guessing that might play a role in your decision making process. All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Cleating the top, replacing the bridge, resetting the neck....etc, It's just got a slight (not even to the butt end of the guitar) top seam separation. No reason to cleat it. There certainly is no reason to replace the bridge! That's a nice, full height, original Brazilian rosewood bridge. And, a neck reset is standard procedure on vintage guitar. I certainly don't know what Sub paid (or is contemplating paying) for the thing, but, to my vintage-guitar-collector-and-player's eyes, it looks great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 OWF's post pretty much sums up the vintage guitar quest. You know; do want the true sound that you can only get with a vintage Gibson, or is it the idea of a '37 Gibson L-00 that you're after. I ,too, have been really gassing for a late thirties ('37 seems to be a big year for 'em) L-00, so I've been asking myself the same questions. I recently had the privilege to play a handful of vintage small bodied gibsons alone in a quiet parlor-type room at one of the major East coast vintage dealers. Love the v-neck. love the vintage 'bursts. But that projection and woody sound is to be experienced. It reminds me of what acoustic guitarists mostly look for when amp shopping: except in this case, the guitar doesn't "color" the sound. Amazing. The above-mentioned dealer is also where I was able to select my Banner J-45 from a bunch of '40's J's. He also echo'ed the idea of how those big repairs do affect the sound, & how it's best to listen to a reset guitar before purchase (also mentioned was how the initial sound of a neck reset guitar is different than how it will sound after it "settles down" in a year or so). So what I'd add to OWF's post is... since the ultimate sound of an internet purchase is such an expensive (figure on at least upper $3K's) roll of the dice, it would be so worth it for you to make a trip to a major vintage dealer so that you can try several guitars in one sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Here's what I mean, and Martin guys are the worst. My blue book has this 1965 D-28 guitar in excellent condition at around $6000. In my humble opinion, these blue books are over optomistic. If you go to the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum, buy and sell. You see these selling from $3500 to $4000 in this soft market. So this guy posts his guitar for $7200 dollars, now that is fine, if he can get it, wonderful. Note that there is almost NO saddle left showing above the bridge. In my opinion, this guitar needs a neck reset on top of things, add another $600+ in our area. So we now have a guitar for $7800, where you can get one on the UMGF for $4K????? You do the math. I just find it amazing what prices vintage guitars get......that being said, you find a good one, and it is probably worth the cash. But it better be 100% sound structurally and in my opinion looking good too. Otherwise there are many top luthiers out there making better Martins than Martin...... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/2093822919.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburude63 Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 Here's what I mean, and Martin guys are the worst. My blue book has this 1965 D-28 guitar in excellent condition at around $6000. In my humble opinion, these blue books are over optomistic. If you go to the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum, buy and sell. You see these selling from $3500 to $4000 in this soft market. So this guy posts his guitar for $7200 dollars, now that is fine, if he can get it, wonderful. Note that there is almost NO saddle left showing above the bridge. In my opinion, this guitar needs a neck reset on top of things, add another $600+ in our area. So we now have a guitar for $7800, where you can get one on the UMGF for $4K????? You do the math. I just find it amazing what prices vintage guitars get......that being said, you find a good one, and it is probably worth the cash. But it better be 100% sound structurally and in my opinion looking good too. Otherwise there are many top luthiers out there making better Martins than Martin...... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/2093822919.html Heres my take Wily 1st I agree with JT since he knows vintage Gibsons . 2nd My 57 SJ kills any reproduction I have had. You know I have had many and played plenty ! As far as what to pay well from some of the best luthiers on the reset $350 ! $100 for a refret As I said the crack is a seem seperation thats all so a whopping $450 is not bad. To bring a beauty like this back from the dead ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburude63 Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 "So we now have a guitar for $7800, where you can get one on the UMGF for $4K????? You do the math. I just find it amazing what prices vintage guitars get." Price asked is not necesarally price paid ! Vintage guitars ,cars paintings and on and on bring high prices due to rareity it seems to me. You hnow I have a Grevin L 00v . You can buy one new for $4000 or so to get as close to the vintage L 00 sound you can ! Or you can look around and get the real thing for about the same price. One goes up in value one goes down . In 70 years the Grevin will be worth a hell of a lot ! Anything is worth what you'll pay . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I'm befuddled by the response here. This guitar appears to need very little work. It shows very little pick wear on the top, which is unusual for these L-00s which typically served as work horses. It's got an inch or two of seam separation that won't need cleating, only a small dab of hide glue. And, it needs a neck reset. No big deal. I've bought lots of vintage guitars that needed neck resets, from L-00s to Dyer Symphony harp guitars. Imho, a neck reset is routine maintenance on a vintage guitar. You've nothing to worry about if the work is done by a good luthier. My pal and co-author Willi Henkes routinely buys vintage guitars in need of resets. They often stop by my home for X-rays before going across the pond. On occasion, I've been able to play them after the resets (having visited his shop in Germany). Great sounding guitars end up playing more easily and sounding even better. What may be my best sounding vintage Gibson is my 1929 Nick Lucas. The thing sat in a shed in Tasmania without a case for nearly 7 decades. At some point, it received what I call a Tasmanian oversmear." The thing is an absolute tone monster. Minty vintage Nicks are way out of my price range. But, because I was more than willing to buy a guitar that needed a lot of work (huge side cracks, a big chunk missing on the side of the upper treble bout), I got a dream guitar. Oh, and it makes Sub's L-00 look like a shiny, new guitar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 John, I believe that you come to this discussion with a rather unique perspective. Based on the music you've shared with us here along with the guitars you own, I'd say that you're both a serious player and a collector. You can realize the beauty of an instrument from both sides of the equation in great depth — musically speaking, you're very talented (and very modest) and your historical knowledge/appreciation runs very deep. I always enjoy what you bring to the conversation. All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Thanks for the kind words, Guth. I don't claim a lot of expertise about these instruments, but I have been privileged to play a lot of them (I've X-rayed and CT-scanned somewhere between 60 and 70 vintage Martins, Gibsons, and Larsons). Imho opinion, a neck reset is not major surgery (when done by the right person!). I simply wouldn't hesitate to buy a vintage guitar that needed a neck reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburude63 Posted December 13, 2010 Author Share Posted December 13, 2010 I'm befuddled by the response here. This guitar appears to need very little work. It shows very little pick wear on the top, which is unusual for these L-00s which typically served as work horses. It's got an inch or two of seam separation that won't need cleating, only a small dab of hide glue. And, it needs a neck reset. No big deal. I've bought lots of vintage guitars that needed neck resets, from L-00s to Dyer Symphony harp guitars. Imho, a neck reset is routine maintenance on a vintage guitar. You've nothing to worry about if the work is done by a good luthier. My pal and co-author Willi Henkes routinely buys vintage guitars in need of resets. They often stop by my home for X-rays before going across the pond. On occasion, I've been able to play them after the resets (having visited his shop in Germany). Great sounding guitars end up playing more easily and sounding even better. What may be my best sounding vintage Gibson is my 1929 Nick Lucas. The thing sat in a shed in Tasmania without a case for nearly 7 decades. At some point, it received what I call a Tasmanian oversmear." The thing is an absolute tone monster. Minty vintage Nicks are way out of my price range. But, because I was more than willing to buy a guitar that needed a lot of work (huge side cracks, a big chunk missing on the side of the upper treble bout), I got a dream guitar. Oh, and it makes Sub's L-00 look like a shiny, new guitar: Again I thank you JT for your insight and expertise !!! You are a great asset to this forum ! and me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Sub....if you can get a neck reset and refret done for $450, that's pretty good. We can't get that around here. I hope you didn't mis-understand what I was saying. I meant to say, that the guitar you posted, and described, seems like it needs some structural work. Structural work is way different from cosmetic work. Structural work CAN but does not always change the sound of an instrument. So be careful.....Sub, I would love to meet you at this show: Vintage Guitar Show in San Rafael, CA January 13-14th. A whole assembly hall full of vintage acoustic and electric guitars. Prices are high (on the first day) and more reasonable in the last two hours of the show on Sunday, but the good thing is, that you can try a lot of vintage Gibsons. Most of which have had the structural work done...so you hear the guitar AFTER the repairs, so what you hear is what you get. Last time I was there, I tried at least 8 L-00's from the 30's. So it is an educational, data gathering research opportunity too. I would love to meet with you there, and hang out for the day. Help you try out some of those L-00's. What do you think????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Sub....if you can get a neck reset and refret done for $450, that's pretty good. We can't get that around here. I hope you didn't mis-understand what I was saying. I meant to say, that the guitar you posted, and described, seems like it needs some structural work. Structural work is way different from cosmetic work. Structural work CAN but does not always change the sound of an instrument. So be careful.....Sub, I would love to meet you at this show: Vintage Guitar Show in San Rafael, CA in January 1/8/2011 - 1/9/2011 A whole assembly hall full of vintage acoustic and electric guitars. Prices are high (on the first day) and more reasonable in the last two hours of the show on Sunday, but the good thing is, that you can try a lot of vintage Gibsons. Most of which have had the structural work done...so you hear the guitar AFTER the repairs, so what you hear is what you get. Last time I was there, I tried at least 8 L-00's from the 30's. So it is an educational, data gathering research opportunity too. I would love to meet with you there, and hang out for the day. Help you try out some of those L-00's. What do you think????? http://www.vintageguitar.com/events/detail.asp?eventID=126 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Sub, Thanks for kind words! Not only would I not hesitate to buy a guitar that needs a neck reset, but I have bought guitars that need neck resets. Never a problem. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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