el pedro Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Hi all, I recently came up against the challenge of getting a decent sound out of plugging directly into the PA. As most people who have tried this will agree, running a guitar direct to PA just does not sound pleasant, especially overdrive sounds. Whilst most multi effects systems have some amp/cabinet simulation they really don't work that well. I normally plug my Lester into a TC Electronics Nova System that sounds great plugged into my Mesa Express, but alas it sounded like complete crap when plugged direct to the PA. The Nova System has a speaker sim selection which is basically just a preset eq curve, but this only makes a very marginal improvement. After trawling many forums on this subject I came across a guy who simply put his Tech 21 'Blonde' pedal on the end of his effects chain. He ran it clean whilst his other effects pedals provide the over drive sounds. Well that seemed like a simple solution so I went and grabbed a Blonde and it certainly improved things. It warmed the sound up and the overdrive sounds pretty good all things considered. Still not the same as the Mesa, but a very acceptable solution. I assume all the Tech 21 Character Series pedals would also work well, although obviously providing various tonal characters to the overall result. Anyway, the purpose of my post here was to see if anyone had any other ideas. Whilst I have an acceptable solution for now, I wonder if I can further improve things. Thanks for your thoughts or experience on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Many players are happy with putting an acoustic straight through their PA For electrics I use a variety of small amps with line out or effects out to the PA Then dial in whatever tone is appropriate... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Those Tech pedals are very nice..I've only tried them, haven't pulled the trigger......Verstile is, as always, correct..Even a small amp with a well made line out, and / or mikeing it is best.....Out of necessity some years back, to play live and go direct ( at some gigs ) I used the Boss GT series multi-pedals, which are their higher end multies, and with practice and experience, I achieved very good results.....I can not think of any other option......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pedro Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Many thanks for the replies. Vesatile - I must admit I have never tried the amp line out option, although I currently don't have an amp with this capability. Definately worth a look at in the future. Damian - The other guitar player in my current project has a GT-8 which seems to work OK for him, although I would argue that my current solution is sounding better. I also have a Korg AX1500G multi, but I struggle with the 'artificial' tone about it. Yes I know, I am looking for perfection from a compromise, but the pursuit is interesting none the the less. Thanks again for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Line outs; the quality varies from amp maker to amp maker, but the basic result is the same...............If you can, keep us up-dated on what works, etc........... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't know if this is the same, but Johnny A plugs into the PA through the line out on his amps for a more consistent sound according to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnarz25 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 now that we're talking about the line out on amps I have a quick question. I have a line 6 spider III and was wondering, is the plug that says pod style out or something like that made for going out like to a pa or recording? don't want to hijack your thread here, just lookin for a quick answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've had good results with the Hughes and Kettner Red Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've mostly run an A-E and a 175 and a Dot staight through a PA. For clean it ain't bad. Otherwise I've run the line out from a small amp. A multi-is attached to the top of a wheeled rig, so... guitar into the multi, then into the amp, then line out. But nothing will sound quite like you think the amp sounded or should be sounding whether it's listened to in the back of a club "direct" or miked through a PA. Sound doesn't work that way. I know I'm a wet blanket on the tone thing, but... even before electricity "acoustics" were a major part of auditorium designs. In fact... the very word "auditorium" comes from a Latin root having to do with listening... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've NEVER gotten anything out of a direct-in OR line-out that sounded anywhere near what I want my electric guitar to sound like. I've done the "direct-in" in the recording studio for isolation purposes, and 30+ years later I still think it the sound/tone sucked. The line-out (amp or effects processor) works for "pure tone" instruments like bass/organ/piano, but the sound of an electric guitar is SO shaped by the amplifier that a line-in will just sound "sterile" and processed. The ONLY way to get a natural sound out of an electric guitar is to get a small amp and mic it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahKeen Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well, I have not experienced bad tones out of going direct. I would think It depends on what you use. I run a line6 x3 live direct to the mixing/sound board and I like what I hear. And I loathe bad sounds. I always get compliments on how the guitar sounded. I even use a regular pod many times and like the tones as well. For best results, I go stereo. I'm not changing my direct rig any time soon. Oh, and when I feel like firing up real tubes, I'll turn to the Marshall or Peavey Delta Blues. IMHO, Line6 amps are not the greatest for high level use. I might add that I've been using Bose towers for speakers and that might add to the sound quality I'm satisfied with. But even without them, I haven't experienced crappy tones. My pastor is an obsessed audiophile (hence the Bose towers), and he's amazed and happy with the guitar sound. Anyhow, I don't know if this helped, but this is my experience with direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pedro Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi all, Many thanks for all your inputs. As usual, this topic sparks many opinions. As with anything guitar related - any solution in any room will sound different for everyone..... and wouldn't it be a boring musical world if that wasn't the case. As Milod points out, that is the way sound works. Surfpup - thanks for tip on the H&K red box; a DI with speaker sim option is my next experiment. The Whack King - I admit I have never been a Pod kinda guy, dont know why that is... maybe it is time for me to get over it and give them a try. For anyone interested, the Tech 21 Blonde I have is proving to be an infinately variable box of tricks. I find myself tweeking it at every rehearsal, which may be a good or bad thing depending on your view. However, it is very much still a useful tool for my purposes and will definately be a keeper. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteop Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi all, Many thanks for all your inputs. As usual, this topic sparks many opinions. As with anything guitar related - any solution in any room will sound different for everyone..... and wouldn't it be a boring musical world if that wasn't the case. As Milod points out, that is the way sound works. Surfpup - thanks for tip on the H&K red box; a DI with speaker sim option is my next experiment. The Whack King - I admit I have never been a Pod kinda guy, dont know why that is... maybe it is time for me to get over it and give them a try. For anyone interested, the Tech 21 Blonde I have is proving to be an infinately variable box of tricks. I find myself tweeking it at every rehearsal, which may be a good or bad thing depending on your view. However, it is very much still a useful tool for my purposes and will definately be a keeper. Cheers Line 6 HD500 or Digitech RP1000 sound very good direct to a PA if you dial them in right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witmer Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have a GT-6, and have often used the amp/cab models straight into a PA. In my opinion, it's easy to get a better sound that way in a small venue than it is to mic an amp. Too much goes on with the mic positioning, bleed from the amp out into the main venue, etc. But then, that's why larger venues are more fun. I love outdoor shows where I can mic my Mesa and run it loud without worrying about what it's doing to the sound "out there". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Surfpup - thanks for tip on the H&K red box; a DI with speaker sim option is my next experiment. Cool. By the way, with the RedBox you are still running your amp and its speaker, so your stage sound is essentially intact. It's not a substitute for the amp, just another way to get its sound to the mixer without having a live mic on stage in front of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pedro Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Damian ..... Nice map. Now I just need to work out how to get from Hong Kong to one of the X's without getting my Nike's wet :-) Surfpup .... on the H&K website it seems all the Red Box have a line in capability which means it should work if I hang it on the output of my TCE Nova System, just like my Radial J48 DI. Am I missing something here? I know the above approach will still lack the tonal and dynamic characteristics of having a tube pre amp in the circuit, but technically it will still work .... right ? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 El pedro, I'm glad you enjoyed the map.....Yes, running from H.K. won't do.......I am following this thread as well......There are direct boxes with tubes in them which are worth exploring, but I have no experience with them....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Surfpup .... on the H&K website it seems all the Red Box have a line in capability which means it should work if I hang it on the output of my TCE Nova System, Yes, you should be able to do that. I never used it direct from guitar. I did however use it a lot with a preamp system direct to recording console. The speaker sim really warmed up the pre amp sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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