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running direct to PA


el pedro

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Hi all,

 

I recently came up against the challenge of getting a decent sound out of plugging directly into the PA.

As most people who have tried this will agree, running a guitar direct to PA just does not sound pleasant, especially overdrive sounds.

Whilst most multi effects systems have some amp/cabinet simulation they really don't work that well.

 

I normally plug my Lester into a TC Electronics Nova System that sounds great plugged into my Mesa Express, but alas it sounded like complete crap when

plugged direct to the PA. The Nova System has a speaker sim selection which is basically just a preset eq curve, but this only makes a very marginal improvement.

 

After trawling many forums on this subject I came across a guy who simply put his Tech 21 'Blonde' pedal on the end of his effects chain.

He ran it clean whilst his other effects pedals provide the over drive sounds. Well that seemed like a simple solution so I went and grabbed a Blonde

and it certainly improved things. It warmed the sound up and the overdrive sounds pretty good all things considered. Still not the same as the Mesa,

but a very acceptable solution. I assume all the Tech 21 Character Series pedals would also work well, although obviously providing various tonal characters

to the overall result.

 

Anyway, the purpose of my post here was to see if anyone had any other ideas. Whilst I have an acceptable solution for now, I wonder if I can further

improve things.

 

Thanks for your thoughts or experience on the subject.

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Those Tech pedals are very nice..I've only tried them, haven't pulled the trigger......Verstile is, as always, correct..Even a small amp with a well made line out, and / or mikeing it is best.....Out of necessity some years back,

 

to play live and go direct ( at some gigs ) I used the Boss GT series multi-pedals, which are their higher end multies, and with practice and experience, I achieved very good results.....I can not think of any other option.........

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Many thanks for the replies.

 

Vesatile - I must admit I have never tried the amp line out option, although I currently don't have an amp with this capability.

Definately worth a look at in the future.

 

Damian - The other guitar player in my current project has a GT-8 which seems to work OK for him, although I would argue that my

current solution is sounding better. I also have a Korg AX1500G multi, but I struggle with the 'artificial' tone about it.

Yes I know, I am looking for perfection from a compromise, but the pursuit is interesting none the the less.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts.

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now that we're talking about the line out on amps I have a quick question. I have a line 6 spider III and was wondering, is the plug that says pod style out or something like that made for going out like to a pa or recording? don't want to hijack your thread here, just lookin for a quick answer

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I've mostly run an A-E and a 175 and a Dot staight through a PA. For clean it ain't bad.

 

Otherwise I've run the line out from a small amp. A multi-is attached to the top of a wheeled rig, so... guitar into the multi, then into the amp, then line out.

 

But nothing will sound quite like you think the amp sounded or should be sounding whether it's listened to in the back of a club "direct" or miked through a PA. Sound doesn't work that way. I know I'm a wet blanket on the tone thing, but... even before electricity "acoustics" were a major part of auditorium designs. In fact... the very word "auditorium" comes from a Latin root having to do with listening...

 

m

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I've NEVER gotten anything out of a direct-in OR line-out that sounded anywhere near what I want my electric guitar to sound like. I've done the "direct-in" in the recording studio for isolation purposes, and 30+ years later I still think it the sound/tone sucked.

 

The line-out (amp or effects processor) works for "pure tone" instruments like bass/organ/piano, but the sound of an electric guitar is SO shaped by the amplifier that a line-in will just sound "sterile" and processed.

 

The ONLY way to get a natural sound out of an electric guitar is to get a small amp and mic it!

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Well, I have not experienced bad tones out of going direct. I would think It depends on what you use. I run a line6 x3 live direct to the mixing/sound board and I like what I hear. And I loathe bad sounds. I always get compliments on how the guitar sounded. I even use a regular pod many times and like the tones as well. For best results, I go stereo.

 

I'm not changing my direct rig any time soon. Oh, and when I feel like firing up real tubes, I'll turn to the Marshall or Peavey Delta Blues.

 

IMHO, Line6 amps are not the greatest for high level use. I might add that I've been using Bose towers for speakers and that might add to the sound quality I'm satisfied with. But even without them, I haven't experienced crappy tones.

 

My pastor is an obsessed audiophile (hence the Bose towers), and he's amazed and happy with the guitar sound. Anyhow, I don't know if this helped, but this is my experience with direct.

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Hi all,

 

Many thanks for all your inputs.

 

As usual, this topic sparks many opinions. As with anything guitar related - any solution in any room

will sound different for everyone..... and wouldn't it be a boring musical world if that wasn't the case.

As Milod points out, that is the way sound works.

 

Surfpup - thanks for tip on the H&K red box; a DI with speaker sim option is my next experiment.

 

The Whack King - I admit I have never been a Pod kinda guy, dont know why that is... maybe it is time for me

to get over it and give them a try.

 

For anyone interested, the Tech 21 Blonde I have is proving to be an infinately variable box of tricks.

I find myself tweeking it at every rehearsal, which may be a good or bad thing depending on your view.

However, it is very much still a useful tool for my purposes and will definately be a keeper.

 

Cheers

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Hi all,

 

Many thanks for all your inputs.

 

As usual, this topic sparks many opinions. As with anything guitar related - any solution in any room

will sound different for everyone..... and wouldn't it be a boring musical world if that wasn't the case.

As Milod points out, that is the way sound works.

 

Surfpup - thanks for tip on the H&K red box; a DI with speaker sim option is my next experiment.

 

The Whack King - I admit I have never been a Pod kinda guy, dont know why that is... maybe it is time for me

to get over it and give them a try.

 

For anyone interested, the Tech 21 Blonde I have is proving to be an infinately variable box of tricks.

I find myself tweeking it at every rehearsal, which may be a good or bad thing depending on your view.

However, it is very much still a useful tool for my purposes and will definately be a keeper.

 

Cheers

 

 

Line 6 HD500 or Digitech RP1000 sound very good direct to a PA if you dial them in right.

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I have a GT-6, and have often used the amp/cab models straight into a PA. In my opinion, it's easy to get a better sound that way in a small venue than it is to mic an amp. Too much goes on with the mic positioning, bleed from the amp out into the main venue, etc.

 

But then, that's why larger venues are more fun. I love outdoor shows where I can mic my Mesa and run it loud without worrying about what it's doing to the sound "out there".

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Surfpup - thanks for tip on the H&K red box; a DI with speaker sim option is my next experiment.

 

 

Cool. By the way, with the RedBox you are still running your amp and its speaker, so your stage sound is essentially

intact. It's not a substitute for the amp, just another way to get its sound to the mixer without having a live mic

on stage in front of it.

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Damian ..... Nice map. Now I just need to work out how to get from Hong Kong to one of the X's without getting my Nike's wet :-)

 

Surfpup .... on the H&K website it seems all the Red Box have a line in capability which means it should work

if I hang it on the output of my TCE Nova System, just like my Radial J48 DI. Am I missing something here?

I know the above approach will still lack the tonal and dynamic characteristics of having a tube pre amp in the circuit,

but technically it will still work .... right ?

 

Many thanks

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El pedro, I'm glad you enjoyed the map.....Yes, running from H.K. won't do.......I am following this thread as well......There are direct boxes with tubes in them which are worth exploring,

 

but I have no experience with them.......

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Surfpup .... on the H&K website it seems all the Red Box have a line in capability which means it should work

if I hang it on the output of my TCE Nova System,

 

Yes, you should be able to do that. I never used it direct from guitar. I did however use it a lot with a preamp

system direct to recording console. The speaker sim really warmed up the pre amp sound.

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