Theory - All levels, We can All Learn Something.

[Kimbabig]

Okay guys, please by all means correct me if I'm wrong, but would this be a C major scale?

 

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--------------------------9-10--------

--------------8-10-12----------------

--8-10-12----------------------------

 

 

and this would also be C major

-------0-1-3-5-7-8-----------------

-1-3----------------------------------

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[stein]

Okay guys, please by all means correct me if I'm wrong, but would this be a C major scale?

 

----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------

--------------------------9-10--------

--------------8-10-12----------------

--8-10-12----------------------------

 

 

and this would also be C major

-------0-1-3-5-7-8-----------------

-1-3----------------------------------

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---------------------------------------

--------------------------------------

YUP

[damian]

PIANO vs GUITAR; Some random thoughts......The A440 as a " standard " is relatively new..........( Matt will know all this )...

 

The pentatonic scale mode has been in use for eons........Arab music uses 24 tones as opposed to our 12, and Indian Music

 

between 22 and 35.....To study and understand Arab and Indian music from a strictly theoretical viewpoint is interesting;

 

and fun.....And difficult for most Westerners, as we grow up with Western scales "burnt' into our brains and minds......

 

Even the Beatles and the Stones who " incorporated " " Eastern Music " into their songs did so along accepted

 

' Western Hearing Sensibilities '.....Perhaps for practical reasons....A good example of rock and rollers

 

actually incorporating " Eastern Music " properly into " Western Music " are Robert Plant and Jimmy

 

Page in their " Unledded " music....Pianos don't allow for semi-tones; But, electric guitars do.....

 

And, really good guitar players do indeed incorporate 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/7, 1/8 etc tones and

 

semi-tones into their solos....Bad guitarests incorporate the same tones and semi-tones

 

by using badly intonated guitars, out of tune guitars, and by not knowing what they

 

are doing.......Whew, cool, my next post here can now be a silly one..............

 

Carry on my wayward threaders, posters, and sons..................

 

( IMHO, it helps to understand theory in order to nuance these ' in between ' notes well...)

 

 

 

 

 

( I actually apply theory in thin coats, let it dry between coats, re-apply, and repeat as needed.)

[mcmurray]

The Judas Priest is in F# minor.

 

The tonic is F# because this is the most stable note in the piece of music (home base note, if you like). The key is named by the tonic. Listen to the song and pick an F# on your guitar throughout - you'll hear it, it fits. Dead simple to hear actually.

 

Minor because the interval between the tonic and 3rd is a minor third. This shouldn't come as a surprise though, as the vast majority of rock music is minor.

 

Also, we can exclude the minor sounding modes: Dorian, Phrygian and Locrian - these all have a minor third interval between the tonic and the 3rd of the scale, however they also have flattened or sharpened scale degrees, none of which are present in the Judas Priest tune.

[stein]

The Judas Priest is in F# minor.

 

The tonic is F# because this is the most stable note in the piece of music (home base note, if you like). The key is named by the tonic. Listen to the song and pick an F# on your guitar throughout - you'll hear it, it fits. Dead simple to hear actually.

 

Minor because the interval between the tonic and 3rd is a minor third. This shouldn't come as a surprise though, as the vast majority of rock music is minor.

 

Also, we can exclude the minor sounding modes: Dorian, Phrygian and Locrian - these all have a minor third interval between the tonic and the 3rd of the scale, however they also have flattened or sharpened scale degrees, none of which are present in the Judas Priest tune.

But...what about the chords?

 

Do the chords sound major or minor?

[damian]

McMurray.............. [thumbup] ....IMHO, one of the beauties of the song is how deceptively simple it

 

appears; when in fact, without understanding music theory, creating simplistic music that works is not

 

all that simple.....IMHO....

 

( The main chords ' sound ' neither major nor minor, yet the song is minor..)

[mcmurray]

But...what about the chords?

 

Do the chords sound major or minor?

 

Don't confuse major and minor chords with major and minor keys. Besides, in the Judas Priest tune most all chords are powerchords anyway, i.e. neither major nor minor.

 

In general though the chords of a natural minor key are;

 

i, iidim, III, iv, v, VI, VII

 

Lower case are minor chords (except for the ii, which is diminished), upper case are major chords).

 

In this case the chords to choose from are;

 

F# minor, G# diminished, A Major, B minor, C# minor, D Major, E Major

 

As long as these chords are used (or power chords built from the same note, very common in rock/metal) you'll be playing in the key of F# minor.

[stein]

MCMURREY:

 

 

Your thoery is correct, and at the very least it is giving me doubts, but I still think you are wrong.

 

It is true that power chords can be neither major or minor, and much of it is power chords. But I hear the presence of a major 3rd.

[mcmurray]

MCMURREY:

 

 

Your thoery is correct, and at the very least it is giving me doubts, but I still think you are wrong.

 

It is true that power chords can be neither major or minor, and much of it is power chords. But I hear the presence of a major 3rd.

 

This is why I said most of the chords are power chords. I only had one listen but I think I heard more fleshed out chords in the bridge.

 

Which chord are you referring to exactly? Can you give me a time of the song where it occurs?

[stein]

This is why I said most of the chords are power chords. I only had one listen but I think I heard more fleshed out chords in the bridge.

 

Which chord are you referring to exactly? Can you give me a time of the song where it occurs?

I can't wait but I am holding back. I think there might be more folks who may want to guess.

 

I think you are the right track with your knowledge and thoery though, I think you could find it.

 

And, of corse, I could be wrong. I took one guess (by playing it from memory) which was wrong, then I just listened to it once, and immediately came up with my answer.

[mcmurray]

I can't wait but I am holding back. I think there might be more folks who may want to guess.

 

I think you are the right track with your knowledge and thoery though, I think you could find it.

 

And, of corse, I could be wrong. I took one guess (by playing it from memory) which was wrong, then I just listened to it once, and immediately came up with my answer.

 

What was your answer btw?

 

Just to be clear, it is entirely possible to have a major chord within a minor song. However, because a song contains a major chord does not necessarily mean that the key is major, as is the case with this Judas Priest track.

[mcmurray]

Ok I just had another listen.

 

All chords (to my ears) are power chords. No major or minor chords present. No major third (A#) anywhere.

[stein]

What was your answer btw?

 

Just to be clear, it is entirely possible to have a major chord within a minor song. However, because a song contains a major chord does not necessarily mean that the key is major, as is the case with this Judas Priest track.

I am keeping my answer to myself. But if you guess it, I will spill my beans.

 

You are absolutely correct, and your use of theory is correct. And, as you say, any key contains both major and minor chords.

 

You are really so darn close, if you re-examine the tune.

 

Also, DAMIAN has provided a very vital clue.

 

And also, Andy is simple on the outside, and a devil of a brain twister on the inside.

[mcmurray]

F# major?

 

Whatever your answer is, what is the reasoning behind it? I'm curious.

[damian]

Reserving this spot..busy filing legal papers.....this is great....9:48 now....I'm too tired to add much, but, I'll add some fun.....

 

There is a solid minor chord played in the song....even a 'jazzy' chord..........

 

Try playing the progression with full major and minor chords.......

 

The 'secret' is, oops, gotta run.........it is theory though....

[stein]

Ok I just had another listen.

 

All chords (to my ears) are power chords. No major or minor chords present. No major third (A#) anywhere.

WE were typing at the same time.

 

I hear the A# in the intro/outro. I think it is an E major at the 7th fret position.

[mcmurray]

I can hear a D# in the outro which lends itself to a dorian sound.

 

I cannot hear an A# anywhere.

 

Your guitar is not tuned to Eb is it?

[duane v]

the solo is in F #major

[mcmurray]

the solo is in F #major

 

With due respect Duane, I don't agree.

 

Solo is in F# minor.

[damian]

the solo is in F #major

 

Yes, but / and, the solo ' floats ' around major and minor....Which, IMHO Duane, verifies YOUR point of how one's natural playing

 

skills relies upon not just a skilled knowledge of theory, but understanding it, and ' ignoring ' or ' forgetting it ', and allowing

 

the mind to meld it all in an instant, and to just do a great solo......With pure emotion...

 

 

 

 

 

( back to law stuff, great thread )

[duane v]

With due respect Duane, I don't agree.

 

Solo is in F# minor.

 

You can briefly run parts of an F# minor scale when you pass over the B major chord that floats back into the F# major chord. However the solo break is in F# major all the way through

[mcmurray]

So I'm listening to the solo from 2:14 through to 2:43.

 

I can't hear an A# anywhere, but A natural is used very often. For this reason the solo cannot possibly be major.

 

I'll transcribe it into guitar pro later if you like, then it'll be easy to verify.

[duane v]

listen to the vocal line over the F# major, D Major, B major and C# Major passage. The vocal line and the guitar solo voice the same mixolydian scale format with a minor 4th that rolls right back into a major 5th.

[mcmurray]

Are we listening to the same song? lol

 

You're referring to the 8 bars immediately before the solo starts yes? I'll agree that the song modulates to a major tonality for these 8 bars, but when the solo starts proper it's a textbook example of a minor solo imo.

[duane v]

Are we listening to the same song? lol

 

You're referring to the 8 bars immediately before the solo starts yes? I'll agree that the song modulates to a major tonality for these 8 bars, but when the solo starts proper it's a textbook example of a minor solo imo.

 

The question is.... What key is the song "You've got Another thing Comin" in??? It's F# Major.

 

If you want to listen to a classic song in F# Minor before in modulates to a G Minor, listen to the Beatles And I Love her.