mhartzold Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Greetings all. This is likely to sound a lot like bragging, but I think it will give hope to everyone else out there who scours thrift stores and yard sales in vain, thinking there aren't any treasures left to be had. Today, at a local thrift store, I found an all original, 1967 Epiphone Casino E230TDC model guitar. I paid very little for it and it was in very rough condition. In fact, I was worried that it may have even been underwater it was so rough. But, I got it home, plugged it into an amp and voila!....the electronics sounded incredible. No scratchiness, every switch and knob seems responsive. Jackpot! (I hope so anyway) The binding around the neck is coming up in spots, all of the neck inlay is curling up and one piece is actually missing, a tuner is busted and the bridge looks incomplete. However, I think enough of its potential to sink some money into the guitar. So, I took it to a local professional to have him give it a thorough cleaning and evaluation. I'm not having him do anything major and he seems very knowledgeable on these models. It will probably be a few weeks before he gets to it, so I won't have any additional photos to share for a while. But, I wanted to solicit some advice from collectors and experts on this forum who might want to steer me in the right direction concerning its restoration going forward. It's my first restoration, so even general advice would be helpful. Thanks all! P.S. I can't figure out how to include large images here, but you can copy and paste this address to see a photo: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6189/6144964697_81f7c33c86_z.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 An interesting find...quite exciting... Apart from the frequensator tailpiece It is very similar to the Gibson ES 330.... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhartzold Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 An interesting find...quite exciting... Apart from the frequensator tailpiece It is very similar to the Gibson ES 330.... V Thanks for the response. The repairman mentioned that too. In fact, he offered to bring out and compare the ES330 that Dave Mason had just brought into him. After that, I figured it was in good hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrmatt Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Way cool!!! Bet it's got some serious mojo! The finish probaly started out as Sparkling Burgundy back in 67. Where does the body meet the neck? ( 16th fret? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 When restoring a guitar the main thing to remember is to keep as much as you possibly can original and repair rather than replace if at all possible.I made the mistake in 1975 of letting someone refinish my '65 Strat and strip off every trace of original finish,consequently my guitar that could've been worth $15,000 isn't worth half that today. So keep in mind that unless absolutely necessary don't throw out anything and keep replacements to a bare mininum.If you do need to replace use vintage parts because there are hundreds of dealers who specialize in vintage parts.Lots of luck and please post before and after pix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 What a fun one to find. Give it a good home & enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhartzold Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Thanks for the advice y'all. I'll try to get some detailed 'before' photos this week, though I don't plan on changing the overall look of the guitar, especially given bonzoboy's advice about keeping everything original. So, hopefully it doesn't end up looking dramatically different when finished. One (maybe more) of the tuners is definitely in need of replacement. But, it looks easy enough to find reasonably priced originals online. Also, as I mentioned earlier, one of the MOP inlay pieces in the neck is missing. The repairman sounded optimistic on being able to source a suitable piece to go back in it. I'm not sure where the body meets the neck. I'll have to see when I drop back by the repairman for the photos. My finding of this thing can only be called a rescue mission, the more I think of it and the more I tell the story to folks. I actually got it at an overstock auction that a local thrift store holds down here. They sell massive bins of electronics and toys plus furniture and nick knacks, etc... that either didn't sell in their store or never made it in, due to too much inventory. They try to sell everything they take in basically, rather than pay to fill a dumpster. I am a book dealer by trade and I attend these auctions every week. I come for the books, but keep my eyes peeled for other goodies too. This guitar was actually in a massive bin of VCR's and coffee makers when I first saw it. I would have had to buy a truckload worth of crap to get this had I not been able to talk the manager into pulling it out and auctioning it separately, a move that definitely raised some eyebrows among the other auction-goers. For a moment I thought it may have been the dumbest thing I'd ever done as nearly everyone in the place immediately swarmed to it. Many of them w/their smartphones in hand, dialed into eBay. I'm not sure how, but it didn't register w/anyone else there as being valuable. I guess most folks didn't know guitars and thought it was too old and cruddy looking. In fact, after I won it (for $70.00) one of the employees made a point of coming up to me and telling me how dumb he thought I was for spending perfectly good money on such a piece of crap guitar. He'd been playing guitars since he was five years old and this one wasn't worth anything at all, he told me. I thought of speaking my mind, but instead had a rare moment where I just let the other person remain ignorant and kept my mouth closed; a good, if not difficult, strategy to employ, I've found. Anyway, thanks again for the responses y'all. And thanks also for indulging me my stories on here. I think my girlfriend and friends are definitely sick of hearing me talk about it, and it wasn't even 24hrs ago that I found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Greetings all. This is likely to sound a lot like bragging, but I think it will give hope to everyone else out there who scours thrift stores and yard sales in vain, thinking there aren't any treasures left to be had. Today, at a local thrift store, I found an all original, 1967 Epiphone Casino E230TDC model guitar. I paid very little for it and it was in very rough condition. In fact, I was worried that it may have even been underwater it was so rough. Snip I believe you've made a fantastic find.. any 1960s (or older) find which hasn't been changed a lot, is a great stroke of luck, IMO. I'm not an expert, but as Bonzo recommended, changing as little as possible is far better than any attempts to improve anything which is genuine. Even removing the strings and putting it into a protective case for years is better than trying to make it all shiny again. Full restorations should be performed by qualified experienced professionals, in terms of a museum piece. This particular guitar may not be a good candidate for a complete restoration, so saving all the great mojo potential should be a primary consideration, I think. You can't buy more mojo to put back into a guitar once it's been removed. The bridge appears to be a recently added part, and the knob set could be better matched with some old ones, but I would be very reluctant to even clean those pickup covers or change any of the old patina or appearance of anything other than possibly cleaning the neck if you intend to play it. I bought a neck recently that was covered in finger spooge and I used a utility knife blade to scrape it clean, but then it was only a few years old, not an antique. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkuss Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 What a find! If I found that guitar at that price I would seriously consider having it refinished by a professional but that's just me... A guitar like this, that looks like that deserves a refin. I think a lot of people are put off by the idea because of the potential for disaster but I guess it just depends on who's doing it and how much you're willing to spend. On a $70 60s Casino I'd personally be happy to spend a fair bit getting it looking gorgeous again. If you like the way it looks now, by all means keep it that way. Either way it's a great find and a great projct. As the others have said, keep as much of the original as possible! A video would be awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhartzold Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Thanks! I considered the full restoration option, but am very much into the way it looks now. The $200-250 is about as much as I'm willing to put into it at this point, but I'll definitely leave the door open to the possibility down the road. A video is a great idea. I'll be sure to put something together along w/a photo spread when I get it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 In fact, after I won it (for $70.00) one of the employees made a point of coming up to me and telling me how dumb he thought I was for spending perfectly good money on such a piece of crap guitar. He'd been playing guitars since he was five years old and this one wasn't worth anything at all, he told me. I thought of speaking my mind, but instead had a rare moment where I just let the other person remain ignorant and kept my mouth closed; a good, if not difficult, strategy to employ, I've found. You should get it appraised and drop off a copy for the guy. What a story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhartzold Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks again for all of the replies and advice on this one y'all. I just got back an estimate from my repairman and have some semi-bad news about the guitar. He doesn't want to touch the finish at all. He's going to replace the bridge, neck inlay and broken tuners, as well as get the neck straightened out and ready to play. But, he says the finish is just too fragile to clean up, especially at the headstock where it's just flaking off like crazy. He can recommend me someone who can completely strip and refinish the instrument, but I'm not sure I really want that. Do I risk doing any long term damage to it by keeping an aged, flaking finish on it? What would you do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsyseven Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 What an amazing find! I envy you!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks again for all of the replies and advice on this one y'all. I just got back an estimate from my repairman and have some semi-bad news about the guitar. He doesn't want to touch the finish at all. He's going to replace the bridge, neck inlay and broken tuners, as well as get the neck straightened out and ready to play. But, he says the finish is just too fragile to clean up, especially at the headstock where it's just flaking off like crazy. He can recommend me someone who can completely strip and refinish the instrument, but I'm not sure I really want that. Do I risk doing any long term damage to it by keeping an aged, flaking finish on it? What would you do with this? Most vintage guitars shouldn't be refinished - it devalues them even if they're in rough shape. But that particular guitar would probably increase in value IF the refinish was done professionally and true to vintage specs. If you really wanted to get it properly rehabilitated, Gibson has a restoration department: http://www.gibson.co...storation-0611/ But there are plenty of independent professional guitar refinishers around, and they would likely be cheaper, er "less expensive": http://www.jwrestoration.com/ If it were mine, it would already be at JW - he's local to me and has a reputation for perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhartzold Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Just got the guitar back! We never were able to find a replacement MOP inlay piece for the fretboad. All the tuners had to be replaced and it needs complete refinishing to look any better than it does now, but wow is this thing hot. It sounds absolutely "tonetastic". Here's a link to some 'after' shots. I wish I'd gotten around to taking more detailed 'before' pics, but I never did. Thanks again to all who lent advice. I think a total refinish is out of my budget for the time being, but I'll leave the door open to such a project down the road. Truth be told, I think it looks perfect just the way it is :) Has anyone here had experience w/a particular appraisal service for insurance purposes? I've heard Gruhn is good and am thinking of using them. I think actual value and replacement cost would vary widely, given the rarity of this model. I see mint examples going for $5000+, but can't imagine this would be worth more than $1500-2000 given its condition. Do y'all think this is worth a paid appraisal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Leaving the finish as is would have absolutely no detrimental effect on the guitar-there are 350-400 year old Stradivari,Amati,Guarneri etc. violins around today with worn original varnish that sing superbly and are worth millions.To strip an original finish would automatically knock about 50% off the value of the guitar and even more if it's a rare or limited edition finish.If the guitar has already had a non factory refin then the damage has been done and a better refin may increase the value somewhat but only in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Do y'all think this is worth a paid appraisal? Probably not unless you think there's a good chance it'll get stolen. Just put an insurance rider on it for $2k and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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