ES 339 resonating feedback

[Vx8]

Hello all,

 

I recently joined the forums here after purchasing a new ES 339 months ago after being away from electric guitars for about a decade. After researching, reading feedback and drooling over the 339 I pulled the trigger and purchased one and fell in love with the sound.

 

However I've started to be aware over time after playing and letting notes ring that there tends to be what is so-called sympathetic buzzing, or resonating feedback, oscillating frequency squealing, however you want to put it which is resulting after playing the C chord and letting it ring or playing open E on the 1st string. When playing the C chord it tends to be coming from the 2nd string. I've also noticed when note picking that when open E on the 1st string is struck, seconds later it will produce this sympathetic buzz. It doesn't happen every single time, but around 95% of the time it will generate this feedback and it's very annoying when trying to note pick or let a sound ring to hear this slight resonating squeal that lasts only a second or two just to ruin the song.

 

At first I thought it may be due to the amp gain/volume too high. However, when tuning unplugged from the amp I still get a slight sounding version of this when both E and B are close to being in tune when adjusting them. The sound isn't instantaneous after the string is struck, but comes about 1/2~1 second later. It isn't fret buzzing, it's not amp feedback and I've check/adjusted the intonation, string height, pickup height, etc to be within so called "factory" spec hoping to eliminate this issue. I've gone over just about everything checking to see if something is loose just short of removing the humbucker pickups and checking the wiring underneath for anything attributing.

 

Later I plan on tuning to a 432hz frequency in hopes to compensate for this since they tend to produce the sound only when being within tune at the so-called "standard" 440hz (although it won't fix the root of the problem). I'm not confident it will remedy the issue however and curious as to if anyone else here experienced this issue with the 339 (or perhaps other guitars) and have any tips or suggestions?

 

Thanks

[JazzGtr]

I never experience that with any of my guitars. But it would be cool if you could combine that resonating feedback sound with an efx and come up with a unique sound that nobody else could reproduce. This would be magic.

 

Jazz

[Vx8]

I never experience that with any of my guitars. But it would be cool if you could combine that resonating feedback sound with an efx and come up with a unique sound that nobody else could reproduce. This would be magic.Jazz

 

Attached a sound clip link...not really leaning towards wanting to endorse this whistling feedback when it's random, uncontrollable and unwanted when trying to play any song. I'm to the point where I don't even want to play the thing at the moment getting the whistling every other few minutes when playing a C chord or note picking on the B or high E string. The clip has me sounding off both open B and high E and you can hear the feedback. Don't go under the assumption it only occurs when letting it ring on those open strings. When strumming it will randomly whistle off and be very noticeable when playing throwing the song off.

 

Tuned to 432 hz, set intonation near perfect on all strings, checked string height at nut, relief and pickups, all on according to so-called specs I've read around here .

 

I suppose I'll have to take this to an expert and pay a fee to get it tuned up to eliminate it because I'm at wits end here trying to figure the root cause out.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSLueKPmzgY

[rocketman]

Hmm, I really don't hear it. Is it a high pitch feedback? I must be missing something.

[badbluesplayer]

Sounds o.k. to me. Sounds like maybe the resonance is coming from the open strings, the ones that you're not playing. Does the problem occur when you mute all the strings except the one you're playing?

 

The 339 likes to vibrate a lot at certain frequencies and open strings will vibrate unless you keep them muted.

 

Hope this helps.

[Vx8]

The vid doesn't really do audio justice, even with the amp cranked up a bit it doesn't record it at high enough volume. Try cranking your pc/laptop volume up if you haven't already. You hear the whistling just at the end of the first note right before I play the second, and I let it ring a bit after playing the last note. Then think about that sound amplified on a scale of 10, it's very noticeable when you're at a volume for anything more than acoustic.

 

When I mute the B and E strings after playing them open it stops the whistling. However, when it begins to whistle randomly when playing the C chord, muting either of those strings doesn't stop it. I'm beginning to suspect that a certain frequency is being made yielding the whistling feedback as a result. The only thing that reduces the frequency or chance of it occurring is reducing the volume to the point of where it is as loud as an acoustic, but that doesn't mean it's not there, it's just not loud enough to overtake the original sound when playing on those specific chords/notes.

 

Very frustrating.

[CR9]

I can't hear it in the clip after trying at various volumes, but I know what you are describing. I did have a similar problem on 2 different guitars. On one of them (Les Paul) it was the retaining wire on the bridge. I removed the wire and never heard the whistle again. The retaining wire buzz is a common problem. The other one ( a 339) just about drove me nuts trying to find it. I got to the point where I was going to take all the hardware off and examine the parts. After taking the strings off, I started to look at the bridge. One of the saddle screws was broken. You couldn't see it when it was strung up, and it still adjusted fine with the strings on. When I took the strings off one of the saddles looked higher than the other saddles. I tried to adjust the saddle and then found the screw had broken right where it goes into the saddle. I replaced the broken screw and put new strings on and never heard the whistle again. Next time you have the strings off, check the bridge. I think your warranty would cover this if you return it to the dealer that sold it, assuming you bought it new from a Gibson dealer.

[Vx8]

Thanks for the info,

 

Unfortunately I purchased mine directly online from GC middle of August, so if I'm going to send it back under warranty it's going to be gone quite some time to get it serviced depending on where they have it shipped to. That sort of irks me having to wait weeks until I get it back. It's either that or take it to an expert Luthier whom a co-worker recommended and cough up $75 to have him go all over it and repair any imperfections or poor setups from the dealer.

[Vx8]

Wound up going to a Gibson authorized repair place closer since my warranty would cover any issues. Talked with the Luthier who was very pleasant and knowledgeable about working on guitars. Since I went with 9's on the guitar asking them to switch the strings from the factory 10's before shipping, he suspects and hears some noise from the strings in the saddles believing it's the 9's inside a groove that was pre-cut for the 10's that are rattling around in there causing the whistling noise. While the nut is notched in a V pattern, the notches on the saddles are in a U pattern, much more room and potential for a smaller string to vibrate around in. Didn't cost me a dime since no work was done on it while he looked around for the root cause.

 

Hopefully that's it, so I'll pick up a set of 10's and replace the strings and update with how it goes.

[Vx8]

Whelp, I replaced the strings but that didn't fix the root problem. It did however help reduce some..... However, what I did find, was the root problem after all. Turns out since I use a hearing aid and a digital one at that, from what I read online other musicians have the same issue of feedback resonating because of it. A hearing aid used a microphone to pick up the sounds and since it does that, it's sort of like the feedback that generates at times like from a microphone against the wedge speakers on a stage where it picks up it's own sound and loops it since it converts it from analog to digital to process to my eardrums where an old fashion analog aid wouldn't create the issue (and is why I never had this problem years ago playing electric guitar). After resorting to what is called telecoil mode on an aid I didn't pick up the feedback at all which mean, I need to now get an IEM transmitter and receiver to work with my amp and for future playing live so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

 

So there you have it

[Aerial Man]

I was going to say that a noise like that would come from metal hardware parts resonating in sympathetic buzz (like saddle retainer clips) or something muting out your strings very slightly. Sometimes you can get that metallic buzzing 'Sitar' sound from your finger nails muting out the strings slightly.

[CR9]

Vx8 glad you got it figured out. And a big "THANK YOU" for the information as I am in the market for a hearing aid.

[G McBride]

Thanks for keeping us posted on your results. I am sure that may become an issue for many of us on the board who grew up playing loud electric guitar music.

[Vx8]

Anytime,

 

There are a few methods I've researched to compensate for the A/D conversion that creates the feedback with digital aids. Some professional musicians said they've used scotch tape over their microphone on the hearing aid for a low end fix and have had some success, I'll have to see how that fares later tonight.

 

There are loop systems for hearing aid users that have telecoils (all of mine from the past to now have) so you can use that mode instead which for those who don't know what it is, turns off the microphone and acts as a wide band receiver. A church I used to go to many years ago had a loop system set up at the altar so you could switch to T-mode and listen without hearing anything else but what was up there including worship and whomever was speaking. It's like someone is right next to you speaking in your ear, very clear. However, it also will pick up electrical interference from per say, power lines that you walk around outdoors and the such. I can pick it up around a computer, in my car, etc so it helps to test it out before deciding if it can be done or not without issues. Also the loop system when hooked up uses electrical signals....so from what I've also read depending on the gig setup it can introduce issues as well but for personal use lets say with just an amp, some pedals and your guitar the chances should be minimum. I've only used BTE (behind the ear) hearing aids all my life so they're quite powerful and T-mode is standard on all of them, not certain you can get that feature with low to medium smaller hearing aids that fit inside your ear.

 

Other option is IEM (in ear monitor) that again would use a boot attachment to the hearing aid (for BTE users like myself) and acts like an earplug jacked into the receiver that attaches to your body. So again you only hear what's directly coming from the receiver which gets it from the transmitter, to there from the mixer. Downside is now if you want to hear the audience you'll have to use a mic to pick up their noise as well.

 

Lastly, is trying to compress the feedback by going to an audiologist who specializes in setting them up with musicians perhaps. I'm not sure how well this works without creating other issues because if you reduce one feature to compensate then you're possibly losing some hearing qualities of the music is my theory. My current aid was setup on software on the computer contrast to my previous one which was analog and was all manual. Best idea is take your instrument with you (I heard the feedback without hooking up to an amp) and work with them trying to find the right settings to minimize the feedback. A lot of hearing aids have multiple settings so you can adjust them for each one, perhaps one for everyday use and another for playing music. I'd have to look more into this. On another note, I have not heard any feedback playing pure acoustic with no amps but the reason more than likely is because of the nylon strings being used instead of metal ones.

 

Right now I may lean towards both the loop and IEM setup; loop for in my house so I can hear it in T-mode without needing the whole mixer setup to use the IEM while using IEM for playing live. Ugh...I foresee hearing (pun intended) moths fluttering in my wallet in the future.