Gibson ES 335

[fretplay]

I could use a little help from fellow vintage 335 users on the forum please.

 

At present I am using a Gibson ES330 made in 1966 which I like a lot.

 

However the general consensus seems to be that a 330 is a 335s poor relation. I'm not sure about that, the 330 is a fantastic guitar but has it's limitations.

 

So I thought along the lines of adding a 335 to my stable. so if I do that what do I buy?

[lkmuller]

I could use a little help from fellow vintage 335 users on the forum please.

 

At present I am using a Gibson ES330 made in 1966 which I like a lot.

 

However the general consensus seems to be that a 330 is a 335s poor relation. I'm not sure about that, the 330 is a fantastic guitar but has it's limitations.

 

So I thought along the lines of adding a 335 to my stable. so if I do that what do I buy?

 

Although far from being an expert, I have owned a few 335's in my lifetime, from a vintage sunburst dot, to a block inlay and now a plaintop ebony. My unsophisticated ears could detect no difference in sound between the three. The only difference I could see was in the price. Paid over $3K for my block inlay a few years ago, and only $2K for my plaintop, and they sound the same to me. I would get the more inexpensive one and put the savings toward a good amp.

[milod]

There's a difference, yup.

 

There's are questions here, though: What do you expect from a 335?

 

Humbucking tone in general and less feedback? A heavier guitar too? A more roomy jazz sound?

 

Budget is???

Playing venues are expected to be???

Style of music is likely to be???

 

Here's a f'rxample: You want one to play in a blues/rock band but aren't sure; budget is irrelevant up to $3-4,000. For a tryout, you decide to get a new Epi Dot for $400 and jam with it for general feel and HB tone, then plan to dump it for the 335 if the Epi helped convince you the 335 is what you want 'stedda a Lucille or a jazz box.

 

Or... You decide you have to have a 335 dot regardless and try out a bunch if you can in stores until you find "Your" guitar and buy it.

 

Or... you can consider something yet different like the 137 and mess with different HB semi configurations. Or... a jazz box or LP?

 

Still, we come back to #1. What do you expect?

 

m

[sheraton]

I could use a little help from fellow vintage 335 users on the forum please.

 

At present I am using a Gibson ES330 made in 1966 which I like a lot.

 

However the general consensus seems to be that a 330 is a 335s poor relation. I'm not sure about that, the 330 is a fantastic guitar but has it's limitations.

 

So I thought along the lines of adding a 335 to my stable. so if I do that what do I buy?

 

Man, I'm in this boat with ya! I've tried a Epiphone SHERATON II but the frets made more noise than the pickups. I've considered an Epi Dot Deluxe (can't go too far wrong @ 399.00) but I'm told the gold plating on the hardware doesn't last very long, and I kinda like binding on a fret board (unless it's a Fender). The 335 plain top ebony is an option to the red, the faded red,the firetruck RED or the to my eye too high contrast 3 color sunburst. Then there's flame or not, if you can get one now that Memphis is O.B. with the rosewood embargo issue. There's a lot of variation in 335's as some weigh in @ 9 lb and others @ 7.5 lb. To my ear the lighter ones sound better than the heavy ones. But the real hang up is that no stocking dealer has more than one of any style to compare with another. I've been at this for 3 months and I'm still shopping.

 

No help, right? Oh, I neglected to mention that there are various neck profiles to consider.

[milod]

Sheraton's commentary is exactly why I suggested just a nice standard Epi to see what the general feel and HB sound would do for what you want to do with a guitar.

 

Yup, there are dozens of variations, one way or another, and each guitar is unique.

 

It still comes down to first, what you really want; second, are you going to be happy with any given guitar at first or might it be wise to try inexpensive Epi-type versions in your real-life type of playing to get the feel, then put some serious time into getting "your" guitar.

 

I think if you're gonna spend $3,000 or up, you should spend a vacation or so getting the right individual guitar and get it set up for your playing.

 

The $400 plain type Dot "experiment" in your performance venues might save the whole price tag of a 335 and put you into a 137 or ... who knows?

 

m

[Versatile]

Very interesting subject

 

The ES 335, ES 330 and ES 137 are all finely crafted tone machines with individual character....

 

One thing to remember is the close relationship of the ES 330 to the Epi Casino(early USA built)

 

They were effectively built side by side and badged accordingly

 

I go for the 'economy' Dot 335...plenty of tone...no unnecessary frills and Eric Clapton, BB King, Larry Carlton et al as exemplar players

 

The ES 137 is a classic in waiting...vintage 'ES 175' profile made slimline with a centre block(mahogany) and option for LP pickups

 

A terrific concept for the modern age...and still capable of smooth jazz tones....

 

I think the case has been made...

 

You need all 3.... :blink:

 

V

 

[sheraton]

I've come by a "cherry red" that is to say "stop sign red" 335 with a rather flat neck profile, and a "wine red" 335 with a more substantial neck but "pooling" of the die near one of the "f" holes. Both play and sound great. I've also tried an Eastman T186mx. It's got a block sitting in the body where the stop tail and bridge attach so it has more of an "acoustic" tone prior to pluggin in. It's also a carved top and sides as opposed to a laminated "plywood" style of construction.

 

The painfull part is that no dealer has much inventory, and there's no substitute for actually having one against your ribs.

[milod]

I find it interesting that Gibson chief HenryJ has mentioned that due to the hand-finishing of each neck, each will vary somewhat, so one is best off if possible playing a number of instances of his or her favorite instrument.

 

For myself, I also find it interesting that what is "good tone" to one picker may not be to another - yet another reason to try more than one. That latter may be more difficult from my perspective because the amp is at least half of what you're gonna hear out of anything electrified...

 

I'd tend to go for the plain dot or the 137. But if Gibbie decided to donate one to the cause of a gray-haired old picker... frankly I'd go for a new 175 even more than far more expensive machines.

 

m

[glider]

another suggestion is to check out a gibson es 333- its a stripped down 335.. no pickguard, or pickup covers but exceptional tone. is such a great player

[TinyBabyBrandon]

There's a difference, yup.

 

There's are questions here, though: What do you expect from a 335?

 

Humbucking tone in general and less feedback? A heavier guitar too? A more roomy jazz sound?

 

Budget is???

Playing venues are expected to be???

Style of music is likely to be???

 

Here's a f'rxample: You want one to play in a blues/rock band but aren't sure; budget is irrelevant up to $3-4,000. For a tryout, you decide to get a new Epi Dot for $400 and jam with it for general feel and HB tone, then plan to dump it for the 335 if the Epi helped convince you the 335 is what you want 'stedda a Lucille or a jazz box.

 

Or... You decide you have to have a 335 dot regardless and try out a bunch if you can in stores until you find "Your" guitar and buy it.

 

Or... you can consider something yet different like the 137 and mess with different HB semi configurations. Or... a jazz box or LP?

 

Still, we come back to #1. What do you expect?

 

m

 

hi, so I hate to say it, but this looks like your boilerplate response to anyone inquiring about a 335 or any guitar it seems, and this is a great example of a totally unhelpful response. You gave me the exact same one verbatim when I inquired on the same thing. Let's imagine for a second that this guy is not a guitar or Gibson noob, that he is a good player with a good to great grasp of tone. He obviously already plays an amazing guitar. A vintage 330 is not a rookie instrument. So there's that, and quite honestly to give a good comparison between the 330 and the 335 all of these things you are asking really are irrelevant. What is the difference between the two guitars and are they different enough to warrant getting a 335 to compliment his guitar roster? That's really the question, and from there, which 335 would you recommend? I imagine what he plays is probably diverse, so him telling you what he's doing with it wouldn't really help, also I'm sure he's got other guitars, he's got a 330, we know that, so he's wondering the bases that the 335 would cover that at least the 330 couldn't. that said, I'll move on to his question, but let's be a little mindful of not quietly insulting people's guitar knowledge just because they post a question on this board and exercise a little common sense about the questions instead of beleaguering a post with unnecessary questions and gratuitous use of question mark punctuation.

 

I have been doing a ton of research on this myself, and I personally love the 330. It's great and you're a lucky guy to have one. The 335 is a more controllable guitar, and tone wise offers a wider spectrum, maybe not quite as warm as the 330, but close, but it takes you places the 330 cannot venture. If you want to really crank it, throw some fuzz and echo on it, the 335 can handle it, it also is great for playing jazz, and to me gives you that glorious liquidy Gibson clean tone on leads. To me, while they look very similar the 335 with its solid block middle gives you the versatility of a solid body, but with all the richness of a hollowbody. It's a best of both worlds guitar and there's a reason why they're so legendary. Also the 335 has better access to the higher frets making much better for blues and rock and soloing. So if you're into that it's great! As far as which 335, I've tried pretty much all of them, and to my ears, much to my shagrin, the best ones are the most expensive. I'm a slim neck guy and the VOS 60 reissue is awesome. I recently tracked one down and it's unparalleled. The action is much smoother than a dot reissue, the frets are much nicer and the overall playability is much higher. The tone is great, it's across the board, I believe superior to the dot reissue, but it's more expensive, so it's up to you if it's worth it. All in all though the 335 is a winner. Hope that helps.

[TinyBabyBrandon]

I'd also like to add to NOT get a crappy 400 dollar epiphone to see if you *really want* a 335. That's like buying a ford Fiesta to see if you really want to drive a Mustang. The epiphones in my opinion suck, they feel like plastic, the tone is weak and it is in no way derivative of what the experience of playing and living with a 335 is like. Get the 335, play it first, try some out, and figure out if it's really something you want to invest in. Then you buy it. Worst case scenario you don't like it and you end up selling. You can get a pretty close price to what you paid for it (especially if you pick one up used) by throwing it up on Ebay, so it's not really a financial risk. Let me reiterate if you get the epiphone, it will probably turn you off to the the 335. I mean you've been playing a vintage Gibson 330, no crappy Korean made epiphone is going to impress you with that guitar sitting at home right next to it. You'll waste the 400 hyundai on the Epi and sour yourself on what could be a fantastic lifelong instrument/companion in the real deal 335.

[stein]

TINYBABYBRANDON:

 

Oh! The irony! It slays me!

 

The thing about a forum that is great is getting opinions and help from a varied group, and as long as the intent is to be helpful, no harm is done.

 

Sometimes, a certain piece of advise might be misleading or harmful, and I think it is OK to politely disagree, or offer a correction or alternative opinion.

 

For example: buying a new guitar and expecting to get "nearly" as much back selling it is not a wise expectation. One should expect to loose about 30-40% just on that transaction alone. Used guitars simply don't sell for close to what they sell new. Used guitars in shops alongside new, maybe closer, but you can't sell one for that unless you get lucky. Point is, buying and selling guitars is USUALLY at a loss unless you are willing to put time and research into it, and effort.

 

I find your assessments of the differences between the 330 and 335 helpful. I also agree on the difference in quality between the Epi and Gibby. Also, I see merit to the idea of buying the real deal, but from the perspective that the financial loss COULD be worth it.

[stein]

Silly me, I got a little carried away and did not complete my "irony" statement:

 

Milod, while he looks quite young in his avatar pic, has been around a long time. He has been playing for so long, that he actually has a HISTORICAL perspective about performing and playing guitar because he actually witnessed the rise of popularity of many of these "classics" we like to drool over.

 

Hell, I might as well say it (apologies Milod, sir). He was THERE when they invented the electric guitar.

 

He has also been helpful on this site for helping me to learn to communicate on a forum. When I first started posting here, my postings were quite horrendous.

 

Oh..and..uh..he is like, a journalist. He knows how to write. He studies this stuff, too.

 

LOL...it's all good my friend. It is kinda funny though, don't you think?

[TinyBabyBrandon]

TINYBABYBRANDON:

 

Oh! The irony! It slays me!

 

The thing about a forum that is great is getting opinions and help from a varied group, and as long as the intent is to be helpful, no harm is done.

 

Sometimes, a certain piece of advise might be misleading or harmful, and I think it is OK to politely disagree, or offer a correction or alternative opinion.

 

For example: buying a new guitar and expecting to get "nearly" as much back selling it is not a wise expectation. One should expect to loose about 30-40% just on that transaction alone. Used guitars simply don't sell for close to what they sell new. Used guitars in shops alongside new, maybe closer, but you can't sell one for that unless you get lucky. Point is, buying and selling guitars is USUALLY at a loss unless you are willing to put time and research into it, and effort.

 

I find your assessments of the differences between the 330 and 335 helpful. I also agree on the difference in quality between the Epi and Gibby. Also, I see merit to the idea of buying the real deal, but from the perspective that the financial loss COULD be worth it.

 

Hey Stein,

I get what you're saying, and I meant no insult, however, when I read the same response the first time to my 335 post, I felt the way I stated in my post in this thread. I just think that to ignore the basic question and post a litany on unnecessary questions with tons of question marks after each inquiry is insulting to the poster, like OF COURSE they should have already thought of answering those questions, when all they're looking for is a basic assessment of the guitar mentioned in comparison to another guitar. So no offense intended but I felt like I should say it.

 

Also I agree with you that if you buy new you're risking a good amount of money, but if you buy used, which I HIGHLY recommend, then you're really not putting much on the line as far as financial risk. So go used. Play a few in the store and then hit up craigslist or Ebay, chances are you'll find a good one, and if not, just resell, get the same amount back. Proceed until satisfied. I however, don't see the irony that you mention, but in the words of a man much wiser than I, Party on, Garth!

[TinyBabyBrandon]

Silly me, I got a little carried away and did not complete my "irony" statement:

 

Milod, while he looks quite young in his avatar pic, has been around a long time. He has been playing for so long, that he actually has a HISTORICAL perspective about performing and playing guitar because he actually witnessed the rise of popularity of many of these "classics" we like to drool over.

 

Hell, I might as well say it (apologies Milod, sir). He was THERE when they invented the electric guitar.

 

He has also been helpful on this site for helping me to learn to communicate on a forum. When I first started posting here, my postings were quite horrendous.

 

Oh..and..uh..he is like, a journalist. He knows how to write. He studies this stuff, too.

 

LOL...it's all good my friend. It is kinda funny though, don't you think?

Ahhhhhh. It's all clear now. I'm TINY BABY BRANDON! Gotcha! I'm actually not such a tiny baby however, and I've read some great advice from Milod in the past, I just think in this situation, not so much. Also, and not to throw fuel on the fire, but I have gotten some terrible advice from the "wiser" generation in my time. I'm not exactly of the school of thought that older = wiser, although I myself am rapidly ascending at least the "older" mode of classification. So no offense, all around!

[milod]

Tinybaby...

 

Sorry that I'm so antique and unhelpful.

 

But the bottom line on guitars is that you pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

We make our choices by almost entirely subjective responses to everything from what we think we want in tone to what a guitar looks like to - and here's why I recommended a Dot or other Epi - the geometry involved in playing a given instrument given its shape and weight distribution.

 

I'll admit I don't know that much compared to some folks, but I've been playing in bands for well over 50 years off and on and guitar since 1963.

 

I may not know as much about guitars as some, but I think I know a little about people and how they make decisions that may or may not really suit either their goals or any other "reality" at the time they make those decisions.

 

And I may be stupid and Epis may be crap, but just a token reading of these forums should indicate that not every given style and shape of guitar gives every purchaser pleasure when he/she puts hands on it. That's regardless of "research" and theory.

 

How many guys have written that they've played many examples of a given model and don't care for how it feels or plays - so they keep hoping some day they'll find "the" guitar. That's a fact of life. Even HenryJ sez not every Gibson neck on the same model will feel the same.

 

Different models may theoretically suit a player, but not really "work" in real life regardless how many are tried in stores after a determination that "this is what I want."

 

No, it's what you think you want.

 

I personally don't care for the weight distribution of an LP. The 335 feels like the nut is a lot narrower than on a 175 and so is the weight distribution. That changes the whole geometry of how any of us play the two guitars. If recognizing that makes me stupid, so be it.

 

Your unkind remarks demonstrate what? That I don't tell somebody to run down to the store and drop $3-4,000 on a guitar they may or may not care for in the long run? That testing the concept at $500 is stupid when you will lose far more than $500 six months after you decide your purchase just wasn't what you hoped?

 

The Ford Fiesta to Mustang comparison is silly; the geometries are different if absolutely nothing else. The Epi suggestion stands: It's a matter of performance geometry. It's one choice among many, though. I personally think it's ludicrous to suggest an Epi Dot would turn someone off on a 335 as opposed to giving greater gas for a good one because the performance geometry is roughly the same, just on a lesser quality construction and output.

 

The proof of the pudding always is in the tasting, not the recipe.

 

Stein: Naaah, I wasn't around in the late 20s and 30s when they were experimenting and getting out the first more or less production electrics. I was there when Fenders came out, thin hollows and such, though. <grin> Ain't hit 70 yet. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't. When I can't pick any more, I'm not sure I'll care. <chuckle>

 

m

[TinyBabyBrandon]

Tinybaby...

 

Sorry that I'm so antique and unhelpful.

 

But the bottom line on guitars is that you pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

We make our choices by almost entirely subjective responses to everything from what we think we want in tone to what a guitar looks like to - and here's why I recommended a Dot or other Epi - the geometry involved in playing a given instrument given its shape and weight distribution.

 

I'll admit I don't know that much compared to some folks, but I've been playing in bands for well over 50 years off and on and guitar since 1963.

 

I may not know as much about guitars as some, but I think I know a little about people and how they make decisions that may or may not really suit either their goals or any other "reality" at the time they make those decisions.

 

And I may be stupid and Epis may be crap, but just a token reading of these forums should indicate that not every given style and shape of guitar gives every purchaser pleasure when he/she puts hands on it. That's regardless of "research" and theory.

 

How many guys have written that they've played many examples of a given model and don't care for how it feels or plays - so they keep hoping some day they'll find "the" guitar. That's a fact of life. Even HenryJ sez not every Gibson neck on the same model will feel the same.

 

Different models may theoretically suit a player, but not really "work" in real life regardless how many are tried in stores after a determination that "this is what I want."

 

No, it's what you think you want.

 

I personally don't care for the weight distribution of an LP. The 335 feels like the nut is a lot narrower than on a 175 and so is the weight distribution. That changes the whole geometry of how any of us play the two guitars. If recognizing that makes me stupid, so be it.

 

Your unkind remarks demonstrate what? That I don't tell somebody to run down to the store and drop $3-4,000 on a guitar they may or may not care for in the long run? That testing the concept at $500 is stupid when you will lose far more than $500 six months after you decide your purchase just wasn't what you hoped?

 

The Ford Fiesta to Mustang comparison is silly; the geometries are different if absolutely nothing else. The Epi suggestion stands: It's a matter of performance geometry. It's one choice among many, though. I personally think it's ludicrous to suggest an Epi Dot would turn someone off on a 335 as opposed to giving greater gas for a good one because the performance geometry is roughly the same, just on a lesser quality construction and output.

 

The proof of the pudding always is in the tasting, not the recipe.

 

Stein: Naaah, I wasn't around in the late 20s and 30s when they were experimenting and getting out the first more or less production electrics. I was there when Fenders came out, thin hollows and such, though. <grin> Ain't hit 70 yet. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't. When I can't pick any more, I'm not sure I'll care. <chuckle>

 

m

Oh Milod, I never called you antique, stupid or any of the other adjectives that you've put in my mouth, what I did say was that your first post with all of the questions was unhelpful and with the overuse of certain punctuation, insulting. By alluding to me calling you these things and the insincere self deprecation you continue the trend. I for one vote to just to agree to disagree on the Epiphone front. I stand by my opinion, however. Epiphones are subpar guitars compared to Gibsons and while the "geometry" might be similar between the two guitars anyone will tell you that the feel of a VOS 335 and an Epiphone dot is the equivalent of, dare I say it, brilliant! Fiesta to Mustang metaphor. To me if I were gauging the purchase of a high end guitar from the experience of a far inferior version of that guitar I could at best be considered ill informed and at worst foolish. It's up to the buyer to decide what he should do, but I think it's irresponsible to lead someone to believe that an Epiphone dot will be a good equivalent of a Gibson Es-335. Just as a Squire stratocaster looks to be identical to a custom shop masterbuilt strat, we all know that they are completely different playing experiences and one would never even try to compare one to the other. They are completely different instruments aimed at a completely different market for a completely different level of player, period.

 

As for the price and resale, see my original post. If you buy used you can sell back for minimal loss, even a gain if you wager out a tip top deal, so there you go. I saw a 60 reissue VOS 335 go on ebay for 2200 bones this summer. I should have gotten it, but I blew it. That said, my friends, the deals are out there, one needs only to be tenacious and patient. I will say this, for one not to be disappointed with the guitar that they get that ends up being merely only what they thought they wanted, then one must play the guitars. Seek out a store, play one and decide. they're not impossible to find and I think anytime you're talking about spending 1000's of dollars on something you've never played you're rolling dice, but if you have familiarized yourself with that particular model and know it's something you want and like then you have greatly mitigated your risk. So there you have my opinion, respectfully.

[JellyWheat]

WHOA! Just a cotton pickin' minit! [us Old Farts gotta show some solidarity here!]

 

... HOWEVER... the young lad may have a point, maladroitly served up, or not!

 

J/W

 

 

 

[As Grandma JellyWheat used to say: "If I had felt like this buffore, I wouldn't 'a ett!"]

[milod]

The geometry of a Ford Fiesta, either specifically for the driver or in the turning radius, weight distribution and general controls, is far different from that of a Mustang of any quality or weight distribution.

 

My suggestion was to try a low-end Mustang that would have pretty similar functional geometry for the driver both behind the wheel and in wheel base, etc.

 

A better comparison of 330 and 335, though, might be the identical-looking and driver appointed Sunbeam Tiger that had a relatively, for the same basic frame, big V8 compared to the four-banger on the Sunbeam Alpine. The Tiger was a lot faster on straightways and sweeping corners but the Alpine could outdrag it in three city blocks and go a lot faster in tight mountain cornering regardless of road surface because of the weight distribution. Take my word on it cuz I've been there too.

 

Both had the same basic dimensions from behind the wheel, yet were far different handling. But there were no less expensive versions of both as there is of Epi to Gibbie to try before you bought the cars. I think my buddy with the Tiger was disappointed he couldn't keep up with me until we hit a straightaway.

 

Frankly because of the weight distribution, if someone offered me either one, I'd take the Alpine again simply because of weight distribution.

 

I feel the same largely about the 330 vs 335 because of weight distribution - and there are Epi versions to try out which weight distribution feels more "right."

 

You pays your money and takes your choice. If you're at a place in geography and budget to try used Gibbies, I envy you. I'd definitely not buy a Gibbie, new or used, sight unseen even were I wealthy. I don't want the potential happiness letdown. Were I wealthy and wanting to try something, rather than taking a week off to travel, I'd try the Epi if there's a similar version. That decision made, I'd take vacation time with a better idea of what I want to try. And I'd call ahead to stores in towns I'd have to drive two days to get to.

 

The Dot and 335 have much more similar weight distribution and "driver" geometry than the 335 vs the 330. I think that's more important than other factors. But that's perhaps just me.

 

Were we discussing variations of the LP with internal cutouts vs. none, or one of the old semi-hollow LPs, now it's far more difficult to compare with a less expensive version. I doubt I'd have made the same suggestion.

 

Were we discussion 335 vs 175, I'd have been yet more emphatic on trying the Epi versions first because of the serious shape and player geometry differences.

 

My approach to working out various playability issues is different from yours, quite obviously. Weight distribution on a semi versus full hollow is a big deal to me.

 

You may not have stated outright that I'm so stupid as not to know the difference between an Epi and Gibbie, but you did more than suggest that I am merely an unhelpful boilerplate writer who doesn't understand the difference - ergo "stupid."

 

In fact, your recalcitrance at recognizing differences in priorities may be the proof of the pudding of how purchase of a given guitar often has more to do with what one thinks, than with what one might subjectively be most comfortable playing - both as a picker and with the perceived sound. I'd suggest if you're not comfortable with a given guitar, it's tonal qualities soon become irrelevant.

 

Here's the deal in precis: We end up buying what we think we want and what we think we can afford. Life proves too often that we're wrong on both counts. My inclination is to mitigate potential loss on both fronts with such tools I have available.

 

We disagree on tools, but I thought your increasingly unkind commentary uncalled for. I still do.

 

m

[TinyBabyBrandon]

The geometry of a Ford Fiesta, either specifically for the driver or in the turning radius, weight distribution and general controls, is far different from that of a Mustang of any quality or weight distribution.

 

My suggestion was to try a low-end Mustang that would have pretty similar functional geometry for the driver both behind the wheel and in wheel base, etc.

 

A better comparison of 330 and 335, though, might be the identical-looking and driver appointed Sunbeam Tiger that had a relatively, for the same basic frame, big V8 compared to the four-banger on the Sunbeam Alpine. The Tiger was a lot faster on straightways and sweeping corners but the Alpine could outdrag it in three city blocks and go a lot faster in tight mountain cornering regardless of road surface because of the weight distribution. Take my word on it cuz I've been there too.

 

Both had the same basic dimensions from behind the wheel, yet were far different handling. But there were no less expensive versions of both as there is of Epi to Gibbie to try before you bought the cars. I think my buddy with the Tiger was disappointed he couldn't keep up with me until we hit a straightaway.

 

Frankly because of the weight distribution, if someone offered me either one, I'd take the Alpine again simply because of weight distribution.

 

I feel the same largely about the 330 vs 335 because of weight distribution - and there are Epi versions to try out which weight distribution feels more "right."

 

You pays your money and takes your choice. If you're at a place in geography and budget to try used Gibbies, I envy you. I'd definitely not buy a Gibbie, new or used, sight unseen even were I wealthy. I don't want the potential happiness letdown. Were I wealthy and wanting to try something, rather than taking a week off to travel, I'd try the Epi if there's a similar version. That decision made, I'd take vacation time with a better idea of what I want to try. And I'd call ahead to stores in towns I'd have to drive two days to get to.

 

The Dot and 335 have much more similar weight distribution and "driver" geometry than the 335 vs the 330. I think that's more important than other factors. But that's perhaps just me.

 

Were we discussing variations of the LP with internal cutouts vs. none, or one of the old semi-hollow LPs, now it's far more difficult to compare with a less expensive version. I doubt I'd have made the same suggestion.

 

Were we discussion 335 vs 175, I'd have been yet more emphatic on trying the Epi versions first because of the serious shape and player geometry differences.

 

My approach to working out various playability issues is different from yours, quite obviously. Weight distribution on a semi versus full hollow is a big deal to me.

 

You may not have stated outright that I'm so stupid as not to know the difference between an Epi and Gibbie, but you did more than suggest that I am merely an unhelpful boilerplate writer who doesn't understand the difference - ergo "stupid."

 

In fact, your recalcitrance at recognizing differences in priorities may be the proof of the pudding of how purchase of a given guitar often has more to do with what one thinks, than with what one might subjectively be most comfortable playing - both as a picker and with the perceived sound. I'd suggest if you're not comfortable with a given guitar, it's tonal qualities soon become irrelevant.

 

Here's the deal in precis: We end up buying what we think we want and what we think we can afford. Life proves too often that we're wrong on both counts. My inclination is to mitigate potential loss on both fronts with such tools I have available.

 

We disagree on tools, but I thought your increasingly unkind commentary uncalled for. I still do.

 

m

 

Milod, seriously no hard feelings, I wasn't trying to be increasingly unkind to you, simply honest. I am fine with agreeing to disagree on the debate about buying an Epiphone guitar. You have some good points, I have some good points. We'll let the guy who asked initially decide his course of action. I'm not going to reiterate my opinion on the subject.

 

However on my original statement that I thought your first post was unhelpful, I stand by that, and as far as the "boilerplate" moniker I gave it, I stand by that too. It is exactly the same as a response you made on one of my posts, and honestly, message board etiquette (and I'm sure I'll take some flack here for using that term as it seems I'm on the unpopular side of this debate) says you don't use multiple question marks unless you're really trying to make someone look or feel stupid, which is what you used on both of the "boilerplate" posts. Whether or not this was your intention, that is how it comes off and you should be aware of it. To me that's insulting. I didn't insult you, but I said it comes off as insulting and it does.

 

Ok, we're fully grown men in a messageboard argument, and it's ridiculous, we both are guitar players, both love guitars so let's leave it at that and focus on the good things. I apologize if you've taken this all to heart, and I also apologize to the original poster who was only looking for an answer to his original question.

[milod]

Yeah, I felt insulted - pretty big time, actually. And I couldn't figure what would trip anybody's trigger like that.

 

I use the triple question marks on several forums when I'm really shrugging my shoulders and going in my head, "???" more as in "Sheesh, I dunno..."

 

In fact, before you wrote this one... I did the same in your "desert island" thread.

 

So if you felt insulted by that, I apologize. I truly had no idea.

 

I'll add that the desert island thread really got me thinking about acoustics again as something more than just what I need to bang on or fingerpick AE for certain benefit sorts of things I do around here as something of a necessary evil because...

 

... I'm utterly most comfortable with the general playing geometry of the 175. Somehow compared to anything else I've played, it seems to help me play. Ah, for that friend's old '50s Gibbie flattop Florentine cutaway dropped from the line in '59 'cuz it's about the same geometry...

 

I'll admit I'm really a playing geometry/weight distribution priority picker. Parallel,, slightly lower priority but only by an edge, is quality of setup "my way" with "my" strings.

 

Both those priorities are far above "tone" or whatever - at least to me.

 

Others obviously don't agree, but I think it's an optional perspective worth some consideration by the OP or anyone else.

 

Again, note though that I'm largely answering the questions I originally raised in this thread in terms of what's expected.

 

I'm not at all sure what makes any of us more or less comfortable with any guitar. The more experience we have as pickers, it seems to make less sense to try to quantify that "feel." That's why I recommended, and still would, trying the same shape with different weight distribution. It'd take me a week's vacation to be anywhere close to multiple semi Gibbies to try out - and even then at least four days would be driving.

 

I think I like the 175 general shape because my arms are relatively short - as in, they don't manufacture shirts with sleeves the proper length. Somehow the shape from waist to neck to whatever, just plain "fits" my body. The most comfortable acoustic I've ever owned - and I agree it ain't no Gibson - is that PR5e Epi that's shape-wise so similar to that old '50s Gibbie with a P90 screwed into the top - and both have veeeerrry similar dimensions to the 175.

 

Or... and it's possible... is there another geometry variable having to do with playing style I can't see in myself but still causes that comfort zone? I dunno.

 

Ah, well. It's late and I've another 1,000 words or so to finish before I sleep...

 

m

[dc3c46]

another suggestion is to check out a gibson es 333- its a stripped down 335.. no pickguard, or pickup covers but exceptional tone. is such a great player

+1

ES333 is a killer guitar. I got one (used blonde) and it blows a few 335s out of the water.

And I paid only $850 for it.

[fretplay]

Well thanks for your help here guys if a little acrimonious but spirited debate is a good thing yes! However I don't seem to be able to say that's what I want yet but thats all part of the fun of searcing.

 

To clear up some points. I live in the deep south that's UK not USA Like Milord I have been playing since the 60s maybe a little in the 50s and I have played everything from flamenco to rock and have owned many guitars America Japanese and German.

 

When choosing a guitar I look for two things, do I want to own it and will I get my money back when I sell it. On the later I have always got my money back in fact with the German usually Hofners have made a comfortable profit but that was when the pound/euro was in my favour.. Buying guitars from USA is difficult, you buy blind which used to be OK as the price was so much better but with current rate of exchange and taxes its better to buy in UK. However having said that I'm always up to take a chance if the guitar is what I want.

 

I have recently heard about ES336 and ES356 these are newish models to Gibson, hand carved, mahogany and smaller than the ES335 which is something I like.

Do any members have experience of these guitar? I do own a Ibanez AM205 which sounds in spec just like the 356 hand carved hog back and front. The guitar has a beautiful warm sound with lots of sustain. Its not an all things to all men guitar but I use it a little for recording. Mine was made in 1984 looks like Gibson took five-teen years to copy it. I was wondering any members have had the chance to try these guitars too.

[JellyWheat]

What gives you the impression the Gibsons at that price point are "hand-carved"?

 

J/W

[TinyBabyBrandon]

What gives you the impression the Gibsons at that price point are "hand-carved"?

 

J/W

Hi Fretplay, Jelly Wheat is right on the money, so to speak, on this point. The carved guitars you're thinking of, and I'm not even sure that it's "hand carved" are the CS models, not the Es models of the 336 and 356. They are notably higher priced than the 336 and 356, like double. Anyway, my experience with the straight Es336 has never been outstanding. I always have felt like they were 335 lites. I personally am also not a big fan of the smaller body size. If I'm getting an ES, I want to make it count. Also it just feels funky having that body so small especially the higher you go up the neck. Just my thoughts on those guitars, but there are some people that love them, so you never know.