Brass Nut?

[daveinspain]

Are there any advantages to a brass nut? As some of you may know I just got a Gretsch 6120 and it has a brass nut. Another thing I noticed is that it's fairly high... It is much higher than any of the nuts on my other guitars (That sounds odd) Anyway, I have been trying to get the action down without adding buzz and I haven't had much luck adjusting just the bridge and truss rod so I was thinking maybe I should change the nut with one I can lower a tad. Any thoughts?

[stein]

All these years using Strats, and never once have I done a brass nut. I honestly can't say what it does or doesn't do for the sound.

 

I mention that because cutting in a nut is far easier with a straight string pull over the nut. And I have used brass saddles, and they are not the most durable choice as far as the string cutting it's own groove and having a smooth surface for the string.

 

Action: I have found the nut has a profound effect on how low you can go. When the strings are high at the nut, any extra height means extra height any where on the neck, as in farther to go to get the string to the fret. Once the string is fretted, any high action from the nut does nothing, so it is all wasted effort.

[Bassilisk]

No, there are no sonic advantages to a brass nut. It just looks cool as hell if your guitar has gold hardware.

 

My personal preference is bone but I'm sure the new materials that substitute for it are also quite good.

 

I use brass strictly for aesthetics when I want to match the metalware.

[daveinspain]

All these years using Strats, and never once have I done a brass nut. I honestly can't say what it does or doesn't do for the sound.

 

I mention that because cutting in a nut is far easier with a straight string pull over the nut. And I have used brass saddles, and they are not the most durable choice as far as the string cutting it's own groove and having a smooth surface for the string.

 

Action: I have found the nut has a profound effect on how low you can go. When the strings are high at the nut, any extra height means extra height any where on the neck, as in farther to go to get the string to the fret. Once the string is fretted, any high action from the nut does nothing, so it is all wasted effort.

 

So you are saying cut the grooves in the nut deeper?

[daveinspain]

Damian, I tried to PM you but it said you couldn't receive any messages now. Is your mailbox full?

[Versatile]

Interesting post.....

 

I have a few guitars with brass nuts and I like them...they give a 'hard' top end to the string which can improve sustain

 

Mine are potentially easy to adjust, being secured by screws...

 

My Gretsch Jet Firebird though, has a bone nut...

 

V

 

[stein]

So you are saying cut the grooves in the nut deeper?

In theory, you can cut the grooves deeper to the point that the height at the nut is not any higher than fretting from the first fret to the second. You can cut the nut to be so low that it is just like a fretted string.

 

Couple problems shooting for too low: Naturally, cutting the slots properly involves a compromise, as they SHOULD allow you to change string gauge without issues. If you cut it to work well with 9's and you go to 10's, they might bind because they arent wide enough or they may sit higher in the grooves. Cut it perfect for 10's and then 9's may rattle.

 

Also, as a result of the nut being high, when you press on a string closer to the nut, it takes more force to bend the string, or depress it next to the nut, and progressively less force as you move further up the neck away from the nut. For this reason, nuts are USUALLY cut into the neck a little further back from the frets to make up for it. If you cut it too low, fretting the string will not cause it to go sharp as much as a high string, and that means cutting in the slot for the nut into the neck closer toward the fret.

 

So, if you are going to cut the grooves yourself, watch these things and don't go too low. There is no adjustment once you get to low.

[daveinspain]

In theory, you can cut the grooves deeper to the point that the height at the nut is not any higher than fretting from the first fret to the second. You can cut the nut to be so low that it is just like a fretted string.

 

Couple problems shooting for too low: Naturally, cutting the slots properly involves a compromise, as they SHOULD allow you to change string gauge without issues. If you cut it to work well with 9's and you go to 10's, they might bind because they arent wide enough or they may sit higher in the grooves. Cut it perfect for 10's and then 9's may rattle.

 

Also, as a result of the nut being high, when you press on a string closer to the nut, it takes more force to bend the string, or depress it next to the nut, and progressively less force as you move further up the neck away from the nut. For this reason, nuts are USUALLY cut into the neck a little further back from the frets to make up for it. If you cut it too low, fretting the string will not cause it to go sharp as much as a high string, and that means cutting in the slot for the nut into the neck closer toward the fret.

 

So, if you are going to cut the grooves yourself, watch these things and don't go too low. There is no adjustment once you get to low.

 

Sounds to scary for me... I may go for a bone nut cut and installed by a good guitar tech. The other option is getting use to a higher action on the 6120... After all it's not a Les Paul and quite a different animal. Maybe it should have higher action??

[stein]

Sounds to scary for me... I may go for a bone nut cut and installed by a good guitar tech. The other option is getting use to a higher action on the 6120... After all it's not a Les Paul and quite a different animal. Maybe it should have higher action??

Worse that can happen is you mess it up and have to get a new nut.

 

If you don't have nut files, (or saws) it is really impossible to do a good job.

 

But, put up with high action for no reason? Not a guitar like that! It's a GRETSCH man! Why should the action not be any worse than a LP?

[EVOL!]

I would get a new bone nut and save the old brass nut.

 

btw I know a lot of guitar techs and luthiers that won't touch a metal nut. A material that hard will wreck a set of files faster than you know.

[stein]

I would get a new bone nut and save the old brass nut.

 

btw I know a lot of guitar techs and luthiers that won't touch a metal nut. A material that hard will wreck a set of files faster than you know.

That sucks.

 

Doesn't make much sense. How do they cut bridge saddles?

 

I file metal all the time. Brass, while dense, is one of the softest and easiest on the files to me.

[Versatile]

Depending on other guitars possessed it can be 'refreshing' to have one with a higher action....

 

A hollow body can respond well to wider string arcs

 

As many jazz players attest....

 

V

 

[milod]

As a fan of low action I tend to agree with evol on this one: change the nut but keep the brass one.

 

In ways it may be similar to the zero fret thing. I dunno. Actually I always liked the zero fret concept on grounds that string height didn't depend so much on the nut but what it may or may not be the best idea... again, dunno.

 

m

[This_Dying_Soul]

high action is great if you plan to use the guitar to play with a slide, but if not, there's no reason to "put up" with higher action if you don't like how it feels. If that's the case, replace the nut with bone or something and save the original brass in case you decide to sell the guitar later. The guitar will be worth more if you decide to sell it and still have all the original parts - even if they aren't installed.