Andy R Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 It sounds to me like it was sprayed to soon after glue up. Even if wood is properly cured when it is cut, routed, planed, etc... it will need some time to dry again. Also, as you described if the binding is not given enough time to dry or too much acetone is used it will shrink. Same with Glue joints blah blah.... Throw some lacquer on top before these things happen and you will get what you describe. "In Theory" your guitar should actually start to sound better and have more sustain since the glue joints and the lacquer have actually "cured" and "In Theory" Should allow the guitar to resonate more... You might notice I used "In Theory" This is for the slew of Posts sure to follow about how this is B.S. so take it for what it is worth... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 THEORY is all we can have, until a proper autopsy is performed. I like this theory of the glue not being cured. It makes sense, and has a good chance at being true. (a guess, obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 It sounds to me like it was sprayed to soon after glue up. Even if wood is properly cured when it is cut, routed, planed, etc... it will need some time to dry again. Also, as you described if the binding is not given enough time to dry or too much acetone is used it will shrink. Same with Glue joints blah blah.... Throw some lacquer on top before these things happen and you will get what you describe. "In Theory" your guitar should actually start to sound better and have more sustain since the glue joints and the lacquer have actually "cured" and "In Theory" Should allow the guitar to resonate more... You might notice I used "In Theory" This is for the slew of Posts sure to follow about how this is B.S. so take it for what it is worth... Andy That's an interesting idea. Being somewhat expert, Andy, I wonder if you might offer any insight into something else. The cracks in the top are over the control cavity. I was told a while ago that the pots on my guitar stick out of the top more than usual (ie, the knobs have a large gap underneath them. It was suggested to me that the aesthetic problem could be solved by putting some washers between the pots and the wood. I declined because it doesn't bother me at all but I assume this means the route is very deep or the cap is very thin, or both. Am I right and could it be contributing to my problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 photo of the said cracking top? This the best I can do, the flash makes the cracks appear white. The longer one has gotten longer by quite a bit in the last few days since I noticed them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Les Paul cap thicknesses change in re-issues as " We strive to be as historically accurate as possible. " Beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to theory, Andy is correct ( as he always is ) about the need to take the proper time during the manufacturing process in order to build a fine guitar......Awel's LPC was deemed to have been denied this level of kindness in the factory, perhaps by error................. ( This is only my "IMHO"; which is often as wrong as being willing to state what musicians I don't like :unsure: ).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The photo...ouch......strange............... :-k :-k ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 That's an interesting idea. Being somewhat expert, Andy, I wonder if you might offer any insight into something else. The cracks in the top are over the control cavity. I was told a while ago that the pots on my guitar stick out of the top more than usual (ie, the knobs have a large gap underneath them. It was suggested to me that the aesthetic problem could be solved by putting some washers between the pots and the wood. I declined because it doesn't bother me at all but I assume this means the route is very deep or the cap is very thin, or both. Am I right and could it be contributing to my problem? Yes I would say this could be an issue. You would really need to pull the pots and see how thick the wood is where the holes are. Then we could compare it to " Approximate standards" You might also be able to tell if it is actually wood or finish cracks. This might make sense if the top is thin where the pots stick out or they do not have the proper back spacers. This would leave more of the Pot shaft sticking out of the guitar which in turn would potentially flex more when you are using your controls or possibly being pushed down by the case. Can you see indentations of the knobs in the top of your case???? Pull the pots out and see if you can see cracks from the back of the cavity. Sounds to me like you have a slew of issues going on. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I didn't see your pic before last post. Those straight line cracks are strange and would be what I would imagine would happen if the knob were too high and direct downward pressure were applied ( like a tight case ).... Especially since there is one on each side of the knob ( top and Bottom) where the wood would flex the most... My 2Cs Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 After taking the photo I had a quick look at the back to remind myself how close the cavity gets to the edge of the body. That long crack extends way past the edge of the control cavity (about 1 3/4 inches) over where the cap is bonded to the mahogany. There's no sign of any "dents" in the top of the case where the knobs touch it. The cracks aren't perfectly strait, they are slightly "wavy" in case that makes any difference. EDIT: in fact, it is obvious the crack extends past the cavity if I had only engaged my brain. The pots are almost at the the extremity of the cavity corners, that's why the cavity is that diamond shape. This image roughly shows the cavity, excuse the crap representation, the PC I am on has Photoshop V6 on it, it is pre CS. I can't remember how to use it properly! (if you can't see the lines hit refresh or ctrl+f5 as I uploaded the wrong image at first) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I like this THEORY about the knobs being too tall for the case as well. But of corse, only as a theory. I think the only way to check if this might be happening is as Andy suggested, by checking how much pressure is being put by the case. If the case is putting little or no pressure, it wouldn't matter. But even so, judging from the pics, the crack is extending beyond the control cavity. If the top flexing was the ONLY reason, it wouldn't flex that far out. It suggest that if the knobs being tall was a cause, it is getting help from other issues as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 . farns - I'm sorry to read you having to deal with another issue. I haven't been commenting, but following as I haven't seen a discussion on this topic before. I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 After taking the photo I had a quick look at the back to remind myself how close the cavity gets to the edge of the body. That long crack extends way past the edge of the control cavity (about 1 3/4 inches) over where the cap is bonded to the mahogany. There's no sign of any "dents" in the top of the case where the knobs touch it. The cracks aren't perfectly strait, they are slightly "wavy" in case that makes any difference. EDIT: in fact, it is obvious the crack extends past the cavity if I had only engaged my brain. The pots are almost at the the extremity of the cavity corners, that's why the cavity is that diamond shape. This image roughly shows the cavity, excuse the crap representation, the PC I am on has Photoshop V6 on it, it is pre CS. I can't remember how to use it properly! (if you can't see the lines hit refresh or ctrl+f5 as I uploaded the wrong image at first) Well over all they are pretty straight compared to finish checking I have seen. I knew the crack was running past the cavity but that isn't unusual for it to continue to follow a path. Depending on the mix of the nitro it can get pretty brittle depending on how much thinner is used and the rate of dissipation. This could also account for your binding cracks as well as the thinner can cause the binding to expand through absorption and then become brittle and crack as it dries via dissipation and the binding shrinks. I bet there is a bit of a ledge now on the binding..... Anyway it could only take one direct hit to the tone control knob to make that kind of crack as well.... Anything your not telling us???? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 This is just a guess, but any chance those cracks could be a result of the nut that holds the pot in place being too tight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloon Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Obviously, without seeing it I can not guess (I am not the one that would matter anyway). If the WOOD is actually cracked, that is more than just humidity. Even if you mistreat a LP and trash on the finish, it is extremely difficult to subject it to enough to cause wood to crack. I kinda have a theory. Maybe related to the flood? Here is the thing: If you have a guitar that is bare wood and has been soaked, it CAN be dried properly and be fine. But it is possible efforts were made to dry a number of guitars, and might have SEEMED like all the moisture was dried out because the outside was dry for a time. When i had problems with my 50's studio,i was assured by GIBSON that all wood damaged in the ''flood''..had been destroyed... as the studio was limited edition,and no replacement guitar could be found, the guitar (neck),was resprayed....good enough job done........... Nevertheless......something WAS amiss with that wood......if the guitar hadn't been a ''keeper''..(great sound/dream to play)...i would have ''exchanged'' for one of the options GIBSON gave me..............but it was a ''goody''....so they respayed....... I would have took the ''hit'',and kept it,even if they hadn't resprayed.........damn good guitar......''arm extension'' guitars don't come along that often....even from GIBSON.........I'm ''gibbering'' now! ........ Anyhoo,back to the point.....GIBSON said all ''flood wood'' .....DESTROYED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well over all they are pretty straight compared to finish checking I have seen. I knew the crack was running past the cavity but that isn't unusual for it to continue to follow a path. Depending on the mix of the nitro it can get pretty brittle depending on how much thinner is used and the rate of dissipation. This could also account for your binding cracks as well as the thinner can cause the binding to expand through absorption and then become brittle and crack as it dries via dissipation and the binding shrinks. I bet there is a bit of a ledge now on the binding..... Anyway it could only take one direct hit to the tone control knob to make that kind of crack as well.... Anything your not telling us???? Andy No, nothing I'm not telling you, but it had crossed my mind that it is likely that someone will think that. I suppose there's no point worrying about that until it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 This is just a guess, but any chance those cracks could be a result of the nut that holds the pot in place being too tight? I was thinking that too but generally that would happen pretty soon after tightening and one would think that the cracks would be closer.... I have seen this happen a few times but the cracks were almost always directly in the middle of the pot shaft. Could be though.... I love a good mystery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I was thinking that too but generally that would happen pretty soon after tightening and one would think that the cracks would be closer.... I have seen this happen a few times but the cracks were almost always directly in the middle of the pot shaft. Could be though.... I love a good mystery... Doh! Maybe the cracks are like that because his guitar has the little pointer washers (I don't know what they're called) to indicate the level of the tone/volume knobs? The cracks seem to line up kind of with them. Sorry, I have no idea. It's a definite bummer though. Hopefully customer service takes care of it for farnsbarns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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