Duende Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This week I have seen two films that have really affected me. The first was the bleak, but excellent 'We Need To Talk about Kevin' (which probably deserves a thread all of it's own) and the second film was the documentary about the F1 driver Ayrton Senna, simply called 'Senna'. I don't drive (or watch formula one), but the film is so good that it could have been about knitting and I would had loved it - Senna's engrossing personality and the film's quality had me utterly gripped. The atmosphere, Senna's spiritual beliefs and his rivalry with Prost was all in such great detail, you really were there. At times the rivalry bought a smile to my face and other times it was far more serious -i.e the realisation that it really was war with those two great drivers. Senna really was a maverick and an individualist. I would say this is probably the best documentary I have seen - and certainly one of my favourite films and up there with Lawrence of Arabia, Silence of The lambs and Carlito's Way...i.e very good! Highly recommended especially if you drive and like F1 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I bought it on DVD for my dad at Xmas, I must borrow it, I really want to see it. Those were days of real racing. Senna was a genius a lunatic and a risk taker extraordinaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hmmm.............. I suspect that this is going to be controversial and I'll be in the tiny minority. Whilst I agree it was a very entertaining and insightful documentary it also made two things crystal clear; (i) The film-maker was a Senna-worshipper and (ii) Senna was a cheat of D!ck Dastardly proportions. No one questions who caused the crash 15 seconds into the Japanese Grand Prix in 1990. All Senna had to do to win the Driver's Championship was ensure Prost didn't finish ahead of him in the race; so he deliberately took Prost out on the first corner. Senna later admitted this himself. It was the race at the same circuit the previous year which causes heated debate. Do you still have the DVD, Matt? If so study, closely, the in-car footage from a few laps before- and leading up to- the accident which caused Prost to retire and Senna to go through the bales, thus missing out the chicane which led to his disqualification. Do it with the sound off and just concentrate on the driving line taken. The film-maker has it that as Senna pulls up the inside of Prost, the latter comes over from the left precipitating the accident. The reality was that...... And this is where we all have to judge matters for ourselves! Furtheremore, although there was no love lost between the pair when they were both driving for McLaren, by the time of Senna's death the pair had become good friends to the point where Prost was the leading pall-bearer at Senna's funeral(!) and was (I believe still is) the director in charge of the Senna Foundation (or whatever it's called). A very interesting documentary but so one-sided I ended up being quite annoyed by the lack of impartiality on show. But, as I say, I fully expect to be in the minority on this! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 1330689654[/url]' post='1138714']Hmmm.............. I suspect that this is going to be controversial and I'll be in the tiny minority. Whilst I agree it was a very entertaining and insightful documentary it also made two things crystal clear; (i) The film-maker was a Senna-worshipper and (ii) Senna was a cheat of D!ck Dastardly proportions. No one questions who caused the crash 15 seconds into the Japanese Grand Prix in 1990. All Senna had to do to win the Driver's Championship was ensure Prost didn't finish ahead of him in the race; so he deliberately took Prost out on the first corner. Senna later admitted this himself. It was the race at the same circuit the previous year which causes heated debate. Do you still have the DVD, Matt? If so study, closely, the in-car footage from a few laps before- and leading up to- the accident which caused Prost to retire and Senna to go through the bales, thus missing out the chicane which led to his disqualification. Do it with the sound off and just concentrate on the driving line taken. The film-maker has it that as Senna pulls up the inside of Prost, the latter comes over from the left precipitating the accident. The reality was that...... And this is where we all have to judge matters for ourselves! Furtheremore, although there was no love lost between the pair when they were both driving for McLaren, by the time of Senna's death the pair had become good friends to the point where Prost was the leading pall-bearer at Senna's funeral(!) and was (I believe still is) the director in charge of the Senna Foundation (or whatever it's called). A very interesting documentary but so one-sided I ended up being quite annoyed by the lack of impartiality on show. But, as I say, I fully expect to be in the minority on this! P. My friend Jim loves Senna, but agrees he made his own rules up. I will definitely check the footage out, it will also confirm what Prost said; that Senna didn't just want to beat him, but humiliate him - at all costs. I thought the film dealt with the rivalry very well because it showed (I thought) the mutual respect through out as well as the almost lovers tiff quarrels the both of them had LOL. There was a very funny scene where Senna said Priost was always complaining or blaming something other than himself if he lost and then it cuts to Prost who has his own dim view of Senna's wrecklessness. I found it very touching (and sad) that Prost was involved with Sennas's foundation. :(. It was a very moving documentary. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The funniest thing about the '90 Suzuka race was after Senna got back to the pits. Apparently he went straight to the bar, ordered a drink and, putting it to his lips, toasted "Prost!" which is, of course, the German for 'Cheers!' My brother is a huge fan of Senna where I was always in the Professor's camp. The way Senna (and the younger Schumacher, for that matter) conducted himself on track was simply Not Sporting, Old Chap! Quite Beyond the Pale, in fact! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 1330702686[/url]' post='1138918']The funniest thing about the '90 Suzuka race was after Senna got back to the pits. Apparently he went straight to the bar, ordered a drink and, putting it to his lips, toasted "Prost!" which is, of course, the German for 'Cheers!' My brother is a huge fan of Senna where I was always in the Professor's camp. The way Senna (and the younger Schumacher, for that matter) conducted himself on track was simply Not Sporting, Old Chap! Quite Beyond the Pale, in fact! P. Do you know who I feel similarly about; Christano Ronaldo. He is such a talented footballer, he doesn't need to cheat - yet he throws himself around claiming penalties etc. Senna is my new hero though and I won't hear different :) lol Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I pretty much lost interest in F1 when they put the engines in back. <grin> Seriously, also when Phil Hill, then Graham Hill retired. Okay. I'm old. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Both of whom were absolute gentlemen racers. I have a DVD documentary of Graham Hill. In it he talks about his later years by which time the twice World Champion was with smaller teams filling the back end of the grid. There, he maintained, "One found a better class of person". The days of Amateurs and Gentlemen had truly come to an end. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Now that F1 has sold out to SKY it will be totally ruined with adverts! I don't have SKY so won't be watching any F1 this year! Another GREAT documentary Matt is " Closer to the edge" with Guy Martin all about the Isle of Man TT racing!! Real nutters!! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Senna and Schuie were both nut cases but neither come close to the antics of Duncan Hamilton who was once disqualified from Le Mans in the 50s for some technicality so went and got pissed in the local pub, during his session at the pub the team managed to overturn the decision so he started the race drunk. The pit crew were feeding him coffee at the stops until he complained and demanded Brandy which the team duly obeyed so he stayed drunk throughout the 24 hour race. This account has been refuted by the team manager but then, it would be, wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hic....hic..... Ha ha ha ha ha!! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem snopes Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I pretty much lost interest in F1 when they put the engines in back. <grin> Seriously, also when Phil Hill, then Graham Hill retired. Okay. I'm old. m For me it's Fangio and that young whippersnapper Jimmy Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Fangio was fantastic. No question. And yes too to Clark. Both masters of the racing of their own era. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlashPerryBurst Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 So glad to see that some fellow forum users are fans of F1. I may only be 24, but I'm a fan of all things Grand Prix racing and read constantly on the history of grand prix racing pre war all the way back to the first grand prix at le mans in 1906. For those who can't tell, my avatar is the image of one of my heroes. (Karl) Jochen Rindt. Such a beautiful success story that then ended in tragedy, But, as I say, I fully expect to be in the minority on this! No, you are quite right. The film was completely one sided. And the fact of the matter is that Senna was just as dirty a driver as Schumacher. Think how different things could have been for Martin Brundle had he not been taken out by Senna in their F3 decider. Sure, Brundle underperformed at times and found himself at the wrong team a lot, however, had he beaten Senna in F3, his stock would have been a lot higher. What is also disappointing about the documentary is the fact that they fail to mention that both Senna and Prost were being caught at monaco by the late, great, Stefan Bellof. It makes a good film, but it is one sided and conveniently forgets to mention other things. I pretty much lost interest in F1 when they put the engines in back. <grin> Seriously, also when Phil Hill, then Graham Hill retired. Okay. I'm old. m I'm a little jealous as I couldn't be there to see it for myself. Instead I can read and occasionally see videos of F1 back in the day. Now that F1 has sold out to SKY it will be totally ruined with adverts! I don't have SKY so won't be watching any F1 this year! Well Sky has already stated (months ago) that there will be no adverts during the race, practice or qualifying sessions. Either way, you can watch half on the BBC. Given my recent move to Japan, I'll have to watch it on FUJI tv. Another GREAT documentary Matt is " Closer to the edge" with Guy Martin all about the Isle of Man TT racing!! Real nutters!! Excellent documentary. I always recommend this one over Senna. Although some (like my Fiancee) will need the subtitles to understand what Guy Martin is saying. Fangio was fantastic. No question. And yes too to Clark. Both masters of the racing of their own era. m No disagreement there. I found this website that some of you will find interesting. The Cahier Archive. Excellent archive of photos there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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