techrecruit Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Can someone please help me identify this vintage gibson archtop? I was told that it might be a 1941' ES 100 or 125 Link to only picture i have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 This appears to be an example of a Gibson "Wartime Special", made during the WWII era ('43-'46). The pickup (is that a DeArmond?) was added later. More info: http://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-wartime-special-1945-black [Edited to omit dead link.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Here's what an ES-100 looks like (this model existed from 1938-40, and evolved into the ES-125 in 1941). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techrecruit Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Jim - thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty sure you nailed it and it's a Wartime special between 43'-46'. From what i've seen there's very few out there for sale (at least right now) and they range from 1k to 2500 and those are in better condition than this one. The guy who is open to selling it said he'd like 2k but might be open to 1500. With the pickup installed and from what I can tell it's an amateur install and I'm not sure it's worth more than 1k to me. What are your thoughts on value of something like this? This particular wartime special wasn't listed in my vintage guitar bluebook and I can't find much info at all about them online. (slim pickings for info). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobB Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You might ask the owner to have an appraisal done by either www.gruhn.com or www.mandoweb.com. It could not hurt to establish the current market value before handing over the cash (especially if the instrument has been modified). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Jim - thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty sure you nailed it and it's a Wartime special between 43'-46'. From what i've seen there's very few out there for sale (at least right now) and they range from 1k to 2500 and those are in better condition than this one. The guy who is open to selling it said he'd like 2k but might be open to 1500. With the pickup installed and from what I can tell it's an amateur install and I'm not sure it's worth more than 1k to me. What are your thoughts on value of something like this? This particular wartime special wasn't listed in my vintage guitar bluebook and I can't find much info at all about them online. (slim pickings for info). With something relatively rare like this, I'd say that pricing is quite subjective. The fact that the pickup was added will confuse things a bit, and of course hurt the value somewhat. The fact that the vintage guitar market has been so unstable lately only confuses things more. Considering these things, it's hard for me (especially not being able to see the condition of the guitar in person or in more complete photos) to say what a fair market value might be right now. I do think you're "in the ballpark" with the numbers you've mentioned. I would have thought that $1,500 to $2,000 would be a fair range. This guitar actually appears to be in better shape (the pickup addition aside) than many of the ones I've seen. (for comparison, look at this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310387007057&item=310387007057&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466 ) One thing I'm curious about is whether the top had to be routed for that pickup. I'm not familiar with the pickup itself. It would still be unfortunate that screw holes are present, but if by some chance there was no hole cut in the top, then the effect on the guitar's value would be lessened somewhat. With regard to Bob's comment, I'd say it's unusual for a prospective buyer to request that a seller get an instrument appraised. That's going to cost money, and I would think that most sellers are not going to be willing to do that, unless they really feel a need to get help in valuing their instrument. Since this seller is already (in my opinion, at least) in the ballpark price-wise, he doesn't appear to need the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam in alberta Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I agree totally with Jimr56, asking for the seller to get an appraisal is unjustified. If you are negotiating a price somewhere between his 1500 and your 1000, then the appraisal comes in at 2000 or 2500, there goes any dickering on price. The only way an appraisal can help you is if it comes in real low ( buyer still pays for appraisal ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneADiaz Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 i cant identify this guitar, please help.!! the owner is asking 750 for it, i cant find anything on the web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Not a Gibson. Horrible fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Not a Gibson. Horrible fake. like KSdaddy said...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 With something relatively rare like this, I'd say that pricing is quite subjective. The fact that the pickup was added will confuse things a bit, and of course hurt the value somewhat. The fact that the vintage guitar market has been so unstable lately only confuses things more. Considering these things, it's hard for me (especially not being able to see the condition of the guitar in person or in more complete photos) to say what a fair market value might be right now. I do think you're "in the ballpark" with the numbers you've mentioned. I would have thought that $1,500 to $2,000 would be a fair range. This guitar actually appears to be in better shape (the pickup addition aside) than many of the ones I've seen. (for comparison, look at this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310387007057&item=310387007057&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466 ) I think you've placed too high a value on this. The wartime special is basically a simplified L-4, which is a most basic archtop. Note that it already has a hole in the top, presuambly for a pickup volume control, independent of what lies below the current pickup. Collectible value is probably minimal to most people. As a player, you won't know until you try it whether it's a good guitar. For $2K, you can find a very nice 1946-1948 L-7, which I believe is a much more desirable musical instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneADiaz Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 like KSdaddy said...... Thanks a lot, I had the money in my pocket ready to buy it, but i thought it was better to double check with people that know about this, almost made a big mistake buying a fake. Thanks again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I think you've placed too high a value on this. The wartime special is basically a simplified L-4, which is a most basic archtop. Note that it already has a hole in the top, presuambly for a pickup volume control, independent of what lies below the current pickup. I could be off on the value, but I admitted that I really wasn't very sure. I understand your comments about it being a pretty basic archtop, but they're also pretty rare, aren't they? To some, that may add to the appeal and value. You also don't see too many archtops from that era with an original black finish. Personally, I've always thought that was pretty cool (I've always kind of lusted after those early 1900's Gibson instruments with black finishes). By the way, it sounds/looks like you might be mistaking the bottom portion of the treble f-hole for a hole cut for a volume control. I don't see any visible hole cut for a volume control. As I said, I don't recognize exactly what that pickup is, and don't know anything about how they were mounted. There may be more than just screw holes under the pickup housing and control mount, but I guess we may never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 By the way, it sounds/looks like you might be mistaking the bottom portion of the treble f-hole for a hole cut for a volume control. I don't see any visible hole cut for a volume control. As I said, I don't recognize exactly what that pickup is, and don't know anything about how they were mounted. There may be more than just screw holes under the pickup housing and control mount, but I guess we may never know... You are absolutely correct about the hole. My mistake. Sometimes, I don't see the forest for the trees. The guitar may be rare, but that in itself may not necessarily increase value unless it is also a very good musical instrument, unless you are looking at it as a collectible rather than a musical instrument. My point was that there are better Gibson archtops out there for less money. I bought a one-owner 1947 L-7 in decent shape last year for $1200. After replacing the tuners (one original was missing, but I restored the others for another project) and deteriorated finger rest, and buying a new high-end case, I still had less than $1600 invested. Granted, it does have a hole through the rim from an old pickup wire, but that doesn't bother me, since I may end up putting a Benedetto pickup back in. So for under $2k, I would have a very nice classic jazz archtop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 You are absolutely correct about the hole. My mistake. Sometimes, I don't see the forest for the trees. The guitar may be rare, but that in itself may not necessarily increase value unless it is also a very good musical instrument, unless you are looking at it as a collectible rather than a musical instrument. Well, it could be both, of course (a collectible and a musical instrument). I think the appeal is there for some collectors, due to the rarity, uniqueness and history. Value is quite subjective on something like this, as I think I mentioned, and I was just attempting to help the person find the "ballpark". :) My point was that there are better Gibson archtops out there for less money. I can see that as a possibility, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 225 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Here's what an ES-100 looks like (this model existed from 1938-40, and evolved into the ES-125 in 1941). that's the original factory pickup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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