cigblues Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 My 335 plays great, but the action was on the high side(which I liked). But I always take it to Herb, whom I bought my first Martin from 25+ years ago to check out. He said that the truss rod had never been adjusted, so he has taken over a week to adjust it in tiny increments. I get it back tomorrow! I just think it is a little soon to have to adjust the truss rod. I guess it could have left the Memphis Custom shop like this, but Gibson's quality control has been good for me. I know the Collings I35s are total quality(expensive), but there is nothing like the sound of a 335.Anyone have any idea what may have caused this. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brantobrien Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 My 335 plays great, but the action was on the high side(which I liked). But I always take it to Herb, whom I bought my first Martin from 25+ years ago to check out. He said that the truss rod had never been adjusted, so he has taken over a week to adjust it in tiny increments. I get it back tomorrow! I just think it is a little soon to have to adjust the truss rod. I guess it could have left the Memphis Custom shop like this, but Gibson's quality control has been good for me. I know the Collings I35s are total quality(expensive), but there is nothing like the sound of a 335.Anyone have any idea what may have caused this. Anthony Sometimes you never need to adjust the truss rod, sometimes you do. Depends on the guitar, temp, humidity even, but what surprises me more is that it is taking a week to get it adjusted. How bad was it? Any pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 what surprises me more is that it is taking a week to get it adjusted. Seems a little drawn out, but I suppose if he wants to be absolutely sure the neck has settled into place, it couldn't hurt. Here's how it usually goes for me: After loosening the strings, I generally do very small increments about an hour apart until I think I'm in the balllpark. Then bring the instrument up to pitch, let it sit for a night, and then fine tune the adjustment the next day. Sometimes it'll take another day or two for things to settle, with minor adjustments still being needed. As for the original cause, I've found many new Gibson necks super loose & bowed, some straight as a board, and a few overtightened. Usually there's too much relief & it needs to be adjusted out. Basically, it's a crap shoot as to how it leaves the factory & what might result after being shipped & spending time on a dealer's showroom floor - so I wouldn't be surprised at all that your 335 needed adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Seems a little drawn out, but I suppose if he wants to be absolutely sure the neck has settled into place, it couldn't hurt. Here's how it usually goes for me: After loosening the strings, I generally do very small increments about an hour apart until I think I'm in the balllpark. I believe Gibson says to adjust the truss rod with tension on the neck. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. Waiting between small adjustments can't hurt, as you are changing the compression loading on the neck, which will "creep" under the altered loading if you are tightening the truss rod, and "ease" if you are loosening it. Think of it like a weightlifter holding a loaded barbell over his head. When you first increase the load, he may support it without sagging, but over time, that will change. The neck is essentially a beam in compression. When you change the tension on the beam, its bending characteristics change, but not necessarily instantly. The adjustable truss rod is one of Gibson's great contributions to the practical engineering of the steel-string guitar. A proper setup is probably one of the first things a new guitar needs when you get it, as it is unrealistic to expect the factory setup--and I use the term loosely here-- to represent the best configuration for the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigblues Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Thanks! I left out a crucial part of why it has taken so long. he has Leukemia, and had to take some days off for his chemo which didn't do right this time. But he is a stickler for perfection, and he had told me that he had to do it a little at a time to let it settle in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Truss rod adjustment can be a scary thing for many owners and even technicians... I have had guitars that have adjusted simply and easily, staying stable for years Then others that don't seem to respond at all... IMX 'settling down' can take longer than a week...then still be subject to climatic conditions As the expert is wont to say...wood is wood...and therefore individual and never quite 100% predictable A well set up 335 is a wonderful thing.... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I believe Gibson says to adjust the truss rod with tension on the neck. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. Yes it is a bit of a crapshoot by loosening the strings first, but I've found that when reducing relief, the nut tightens with less friction and I get a better feel for what's going on with the rod. Regardless, either method will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigblues Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Herb sells Collings acoustics and electrics, and everyone says the I35 has the quality. But as was said before, a well-setup 335 is a great guitar. And it is very possible that it came that way from the Memphis shop. And 2 years could have made it worse. I'll stick with Gibson...they have been good enough for the great artists, both past and present. This is the guitar I have put above all others for many years. And mine will be great today at 2PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 The trussrod is adjusted when the neck doesn't have the right amount of "relief", which is how much it's bowed upward. The bridge is adjusted to raise or lower the action. Your luthier had to make sure the neck relief was right before he could adjust the action. You don't really have to let the guitar rest much between trussrod adjustments, but some people do, just to make sure the thing has settled. Flexing the neck a little between trussrod adjustments also allows the components to settle and reach equilibrium right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 IMO it's not at all unusual for new intruments to require a rod adjustment within the first six months. My 2011 335 did. Even assuming the factory setting fits your own personal preferance, I've found that the relief often increases over the first six months of life as the fingerboard compress a little around the nut slots, and a creater curve results. In my observation, the MIM Fender basses are the worst for this. They often develop very substantial relief in the first year of life, and if not adjusted, the necks become permenently "floppy" and hard to keep straight. Its a bit like a new piano - it's vital to keep it properly tuned for the first couple of years, then it sticks in the right place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 j45nick, on 31 August 2012 - 05:55 PM, said: I believe Gibson says to adjust the truss rod with tension on the neck. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. Yes it is a bit of a crapshoot by loosening the strings first, but I've found that when reducing relief, the nut tightens with less friction and I get a better feel for what's going on with the rod. Regardless, either method will work. I do a combination of the two, at least on solid bodies. I get the body between my knees, then pull the neck back into the desired relief with one hand, and tighten the rod with the other. The prevents all the "work" of pulling the neck back being done by the thread on the truss rod nut. PS: if you ever come across an older Rickenbacker, this is the ONLY was to adjust the truss rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdaddy Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I had to reply to this as when much younger, I let a 71 martin go because I thought it was ruined or something(it was the truss rod) I had no idea. You move on, and much later I decided to fix(adjust truss) a Wechter Pathmaker and was successful at it. But it took days. It would be too bowed then not enough, then the bridge adjust, then I decided to use lighter guage strings. Eventually I learned. Next was a prs truss, and it took days but not as bad. I was surprised because they are very accurate. However, something happened and I needed a different set up. Lower. I thought I would be able to get some better action from it by lowering and going to 10-52 strings. It took some adjustment both from the guitar and my fingers. Sore. But I would play a 9-46 if my fingers were sore, but I still felt like playing. It worked out very well. Now, as I have said I am looking for a refret for the prs but that's for another thread. I would be very careful, and I have no idea how to do a truss on a 335. Are the 335's adjusted the same way as the 345? I ask because the prs was done at the nut area, and the Wecther Pathmaker was done at the sound hole. Where is the adjustment on the 335, 345? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I would be very careful, and I have no idea how to do a truss on a 335. Are the 335's adjusted the same way as the 345? I ask because the prs was done at the nut area, and the Wecther Pathmaker was done at the sound hole. Where is the adjustment on the 335, 345? All modern (for the last 80 years or so, except for some guitars during WWII) Gibsons have the same basic truss rod design, and it adjusts just above the nut. Modern Martins adjust through a hole in the top brace just forward of the soundhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdaddy Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Thank you, I currently play it as it came, but you never know. I seems adjusted very nicely as is. Thank you for telling me. I don't like to guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I had to reply to this as when much younger, I let a 71 martin go because I thought it was ruined or something(it was the truss rod) I had no idea. It appears you are referring to a 1971 Martin. If so, they did not have a truss rod, but instead utilized a non-adjustable square & hollow reinforcing bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdaddy Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 You can't believe after all these years how glad I am to hear that. I sold it to a luthier who used it for an example hopefully not the neck. I assumed he took advantage of my ignorance and got a pretty good price. So it would have been difficult to fix? With that non adjustable truss? It was a d1245 with much tension and open slotted head. I believe they were weak? How would that have been adjusted, and when did they start using a truss rod, or do they(martin) Thank you for straightening that misinformation about it even having a truss rod. It was too high to play. At the time I don't think I knew what a truss rod was. Only later, much later did I assume that I probably could have fixed it after doing a couple not that long ago. Am I right to assume that I would not have been able to fix that? Given that I knew way less then than now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 How would that have been adjusted, and when did they start using a truss rod, or do they(martin) Thank you for straightening that misinformation about it even having a truss rod. It was too high to play. At the time I don't think I knew what a truss rod was. Only later, much later did I assume that I probably could have fixed it after doing a couple not that long ago. Am I right to assume that I would not have been able to fix that? Given that I knew way less then than now? The guitar may have needed to have the neck reset. Martin started using an adjustable truss rod in 1985. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdaddy Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 That would explain a few years later walking into the luthiers workshop and looking at my old d-45 hanging on the wall without a neck. I vaguely remember him saying he had taken it apart and was working on it along with about 50 other assorted guitars. How do people that have a neck problem with all those wonderful d-28's handle a neck reset? Or do their necks pretty much stay into place? Just curious, it would flip me out to have to have an acoustic worked on if they were going to have it for and extended period. That pretty much ends any martin hunts beyond 1985 for me. Are the gibson's without a truss? How about the Hummingbird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Neck resets are quite common on older Martins. It just comes with the territory, and is part of the price of admission for the wonderful tone. Note that a truss rod does not necessarily prevent the overall neck angle from going bad. Although virtually all Gibsons since 1922 have a truss rod (minus some during WWII), many older Gibsons have needed neck resets, especially if strung for years with heavy gauge strings. The truss rod allows you to dial in neck relief, and maybe buys you a little bit of adjustment time if the neck angle starts going south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdaddy Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Thank you bobouz, there is less worry if they are common, (neck sets). Would you know what a typical cost would be to have a neck set, or rather re-set? :unsure: Thank you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Would you know what a typical cost would be to have a neck set, or rather re-set? I've never had one done or inquired about what it would cost, so can't help out on that info. Whenever having major work done on an instrument, make a number of inquiries about who would be the top repair persons in your area (don't just go with the first one!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 You can't believe after all these years how glad I am to hear that. I sold it to a luthier who used it for an example hopefully not the neck. I assumed he took advantage of my ignorance and got a pretty good price. So it would have been difficult to fix? With that non adjustable truss? It was a d1245 with much tension and open slotted head. I believe they were weak? How would that have been adjusted, and when did they start using a truss rod, or do they(martin) Thank you for straightening that misinformation about it even having a truss rod. It was too high to play. At the time I don't think I knew what a truss rod was. Only later, much later did I assume that I probably could have fixed it after doing a couple not that long ago. Am I right to assume that I would not have been able to fix that? Given that I knew way less then than now? It really depends on what the nature of the "bend" in the neck was. However, in no case was it an easy repair. If the neck was still essentially straight, but was now approaching the body at such an angle that the action was too high or too low, a neck reset would do it. however, loosening the dovetail neck joint and the portion of the fingerboard that goes across the body is major surgery, and best left to experts. On the other hand, if the neck has taken on a deep "bow" e.g. further away from the strings in the center of the neck, a reset wouldn't help. Sometimes luthiers will straighten the bow out with a clamp and block system, then heat the neck to loosen the glue. Over a period of hours, the neck creeps into the correct shape. then the heat is removed and it sets in the new, correct shape. Both are major pieces of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Thank you bobouz, there is less worry if they are common, (neck sets). Would you know what a typical cost would be to have a neck set, or rather re-set? :unsure: Thank you in advance. I've had neck re-sets done on two Gibsons--one electric, one acoustic--in the last couple of years. The cost was about $400-$600. If done by a good luthier, there will be no external evidence that the neck has been removed and replaced. Gibson uses hide glue for all neck/body joints, since it is a "reversible" glue with the use of heat and steam. It's major surgery, but it is done every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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