Problem identifying and dating a Riviera, please help!

[Newton Lee]

Hello all,

 

I bought an Epiphone Riviera, seemingly it's from the Matsumoku Era. But there are some facts that make me unsure:

 

1) The label inside is Orange Oval, instead of Tan rectangular or Blue Oval

2) The Serial number only exist on the label, no serial behind the headstock

3) The serial is 5 digits: 13179

4) Nowhere I can find the country of origin

 

 

Other facts include:

Sunburst colour

Frequensator

No "61" or other writings under the stock pickups, which are full size humbuckers with cover

The Inlay on the headstock look like a crown

The fingerboard inlays are solid parallelograms (no split)

The trussrod is 1 ply white with E logo

The pickguard is there ply white with no E logo

The hardware is silver colour (I dont know nickel or chrome or others...)

 

If you have any hint about the identity of it please let me know, thanks

But I've bought is already (I think it sounds good), so even it's a fake there's no turning back.

Just being courageous enough to find out.

[cunningham26]

something a bit like this? Albeit with a frequensator rather than the stop tailpiece? I think this is someone on the forums guit IIRC. i found in a google search. Obv photos will clear things up rather quickly, we're pretty good at this

 

[Newton Lee]

It actually look quite similar.

Here are the photos of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newtonlkh/8521065802/in/set-72157632896346596/

 

The hardcase that come with it (to me) writes "Epiphone Elitist"

Guess it's not the original case with it.

 

Any clues?

Thanks!

[jonnyg]

Can't help with identifying it but that's a nice looking guitar. Those oval labels are seen on the Korean guitars, but then I don't know what label they use on the Chinese ones now. That looks like a humbucker sized P90 in the bridge though.

[mgrasso]

This is a stumper.

 

Hopefully some of the other forum members will chime in.

 

Could this be a nineties model produced in Japan?

 

That would be my guess. Full sized humbuckers (with the bridge being replaced)

 

She is beautiful. Dispite her heritage, enjoy her and play her often.

[lengle1981]

something a bit like this? Albeit with a frequensator rather than the stop tailpiece? I think this is someone on the forums guit IIRC. i found in a google search. Obv photos will clear things up rather quickly, we're pretty good at this

 

 

Looks exactly the same as what noel gallagher played in 94/95. That was a late 1970's riviera. Follow this link:

 

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/2472-the-complete-noel-gallagher-oasis-gear-guide.html

[wellercasino]

It actually look quite similar.

Here are the photos of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newtonlkh/8521065802/in/set-72157632896346596/

 

The hardcase that come with it (to me) writes "Epiphone Elitist"

Guess it's not the original case with it.

 

Any clues?

Thanks!

Hi. This guitar was made in Japan at the terada factory in 1991.

[frenchie1281734003]

Fear not Newton, it is a 90`s Terada (Japan) made model, the 5 number serial on the label is the give away, as that signifies Japanese production. The styling shares a lot with it`s Matsumoku made predecessors, and the build quality will be very similar. I do like the sunburst finish.

 

Good score, enjoy.

 

Steve.

[lengle1981]

Fear not Newton, it is a 90`s Terada (Japan) made model, the 5 number serial on the label is the give away, as that signifies Japanese production. The styling shares a lot with it`s Matsumoku made predecessors, and the build quality will be very similar. I do like the sunburst finish.

 

Good score, enjoy.

 

Steve.

 

The matsumoku made one that noel gallagher plays looks exactly the same. Nice guitar though, used to drool over his guitar when I was in my teens, think that's why I always wanted a semi from when I started playing. Still love them to this day.

[jonnyg]

something a bit like this? Albeit with a frequensator rather than the stop tailpiece? I think this is someone on the forums guit IIRC.

Yeah, that's my Riviera

 

Looks exactly the same as what noel gallagher played in 94/95. That was a late 1970's riviera.

Unlikely to be late 70's. I don't think they were available until 1980, and even then they were different to Gallaghers. Assuming Gallagher bought his in the UK, it's going to be an '82 at the earliest and more likely an '83 (or later) as that's when they became widely available. Gallaghers was wine red, mine, as shown above, is exactly the same as Bonehead played.

[cunningham26]

great guit jonny and sorry to mine your photos! glad this here mystery is solved!

[lengle1981]

Yeah, that's my Riviera

 

 

Unlikely to be late 70's. I don't think they were available until 1980, and even then they were different to Gallaghers. Assuming Gallagher bought his in the UK, it's going to be an '82 at the earliest and more likely an '83 (or later) as that's when they became widely available. Gallaghers was wine red, mine, as shown above, is exactly the same as Bonehead played.

 

I mean the one he used in the early days which was pretty much the same as boneheads. That was a late 70's riviera.

[jonnyg]

I mean the one he used in the early days which was pretty much the same as boneheads. That was a late 70's riviera.

No, they simply weren't available in the UK before 1983 (possibly late '82). Pre 1980, the Epiphones available in the UK were cheap, bolt on neck types, generally the EA250 model. A Riviera similar to Gallaghers was released in 1980 (US market) but there were differences. They had uncovered HB's and a black scratchplate/TRC mostly without the Epi logo on either. Most (that I've seen) had frequensator tailpieces. The wine red model Gallgher used (and the antique sunburst model Bonehead used) had covered HB's, stopbar tailpiece and a white scratchplate/TRC. These were the models released into the UK market from 1983. I've heard some say that they were available from late 1982 but I've seen no evidence of that. There were Japanese domestic market models models before 1980, but JDM's are scarce (to say the least) in the UK even today.In the 70's they were unheard of.

[wellercasino]

I mean the one he used in the early days which was pretty much the same as boneheads. That was a late 70's riviera.

The Rivieras used by oasis were 80s models. The 70s ones have a different spec and were for the Japanese market only. The oasis ones are the export market version. Adrian

[wellercasino]

No, they simply weren't available in the UK before 1983 (possibly late '82). Pre 1980, the Epiphones available in the UK were cheap, bolt on neck types, generally the EA250 model. A Riviera similar to Gallaghers was released in 1980 (US market) but there were differences. They had uncovered HB's and a black scratchplate/TRC mostly without the Epi logo on either. Most (that I've seen) had frequensator tailpieces. The wine red model Gallgher used (and the antique sunburst model Bonehead used) had covered HB's, stopbar tailpiece and a white scratchplate/TRC. These were the models released into the UK market from 1983. I've heard some say that they were available from late 1982 but I've seen no evidence of that. There were Japanese domestic market models models before 1980, but JDM's are scarce (to say the least) in the UK even today.In the 70's they were unheard of.

Spot on Jonnyg

[lengle1981]

Well I've firmly been put in my place ha. Read they were 70's models but I'm pretty sure you 2 know your stuff so ill take your word for it. Either way, they're nice guitars, wouldn't mind gettin my hands on one of these!

 

We're they expensive these then or just standard middle of the road epi price?

[wellercasino]

Well I've firmly been put in my place ha. Read they were 70's models but I'm pretty sure you 2 know your stuff so ill take your word for it. Either way, they're nice guitars, wouldn't mind gettin my hands on one of these!

 

We're they expensive these then or just standard middle of the road epi price?

I have a 70s Japan only casino. It's a fantastic guitars. When they came to the UK the casino was about 250 quid and the Riviera about 300 ish. Jonnyg did tell me once but I can't remember exactly. My casino When new in 76 was 70000 yen. A new Chinese one sells in Japan now for 47000 yen. That would equate to the Japanese one being about 1700 quid in today's money. Adrian

[jonnyg]

Yeah, I did give Adrian prices once. Without digging out all the receipts again, the Riviera was £250.00 inc case while a Gibson Les Paul Deluxe was £325.00 plus the cost of a case (£20.00 at the time so £345.00 in all). So, not cheap in comparison given that the recent '62 re-issue Sheraton goes for around £600.00 while a Les Paul Deluxe now comes in at around £1150.00.

I searched back through some of my comments and came up with a thread from a while back. This has pictures of an '82 Riviera which never made it to the UK. Although it has the stop tailpiece and covered HBs it also has the black pickguard and TRC without the Epiphone logo. Serial numbers for these are easy. The first number is the year and the second two are the month. The one in this thread is 2032098 which makes it a March '82 while my Riviera is 3053028 which makes it a May 1983. Here's the link http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/84527-ngd/page__p__1158498__fromsearch__1#entry1158498

There's an '83 on UK eBay now for £799.00 83 Riviera

[lengle1981]

Yeah, I did give Adrian prices once. Without digging out all the receipts again, the Riviera was £250.00 inc case while a Gibson Les Paul Deluxe was £325.00 plus the cost of a case (£20.00 at the time so £345.00 in all). So, not cheap in comparison given that the recent '62 re-issue Sheraton goes for around £600.00 while a Les Paul Deluxe now comes in at around £1150.00.

I searched back through some of my comments and came up with a thread from a while back. This has pictures of an '82 Riviera which never made it to the UK. Although it has the stop tailpiece and covered HBs it also has the black pickguard and TRC without the Epiphone logo. Serial numbers for these are easy. The first number is the year and the second two are the month. The one in this thread is 2032098 which makes it a March '82 while my Riviera is 3053028 which makes it a May 1983. Here's the link http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/84527-ngd/page__p__1158498__fromsearch__1#entry1158498

There's an '83 on UK eBay now for £799.00 83 Riviera

 

What's the one on the far left with the bigsby?

[wellercasino]

Yeah, I did give Adrian prices once. Without digging out all the receipts again, the Riviera was £250.00 inc case while a Gibson Les Paul Deluxe was £325.00 plus the cost of a case (£20.00 at the time so £345.00 in all). So, not cheap in comparison given that the recent '62 re-issue Sheraton goes for around £600.00 while a Les Paul Deluxe now comes in at around £1150.00.

I searched back through some of my comments and came up with a thread from a while back. This has pictures of an '82 Riviera which never made it to the UK. Although it has the stop tailpiece and covered HBs it also has the black pickguard and TRC without the Epiphone logo. Serial numbers for these are easy. The first number is the year and the second two are the month. The one in this thread is 2032098 which makes it a March '82 while my Riviera is 3053028 which makes it a May 1983. Here's the link http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/84527-ngd/page__p__1158498__fromsearch__1#entry1158498

There's an '83 on UK eBay now for £799.00 83 Riviera

The Riviera in the link is one that was exported to the USA. The USA got the Japanese epiphones a couple of years before the UK and that is the spec which is, as you say, different to what the UK got. The UK spec guitars are the same as what was being sold in Japan at the time.

[Newton Lee]

Thanks you guy very much, you are so knowledgable on this topic!

 

So it's Japanese 90's, most likely 91?

 

I do think it sounds very well. I mostly play my beloved tele and got used to those kind of highs, which is excellent in my taste, and this guitar never failed to meet my needs. To me it's fat without mud, shimmer without piercing, best of all worlds to me!

 

Thanks!

[Newton Lee]

http://www.epiphonewiki.com/index.php/Epiphone_Japan

 

Is this page missing the 90's terada Riviera? From this page I only find Terada Shereton, perhaps that's why I think it's identity to be a myth in the first place. But it's serial look nothing like the mastsumoku ones mentioned before.

[jonnyg]

http://www.epiphonewiki.com/index.php/Epiphone_Japan

 

Is this page missing the 90's terada Riviera? From this page I only find Terada Shereton, perhaps that's why I think it's identity to be a myth in the first place. But it's serial look nothing like the mastsumoku ones mentioned before.

The Wiki is an ongoing 'labour of love' project run by two members here, Sjael and RTH, and pix/info is updated as and when it becomes available. It's possible that no info on your guitar has come to light before now. Perhaps you could take a picture and write a description of it for inclusion in the Wiki.

[wellercasino]

Thanks you guy very much, you are so knowledgable on this topic!

 

So it's Japanese 90's, most likely 91?

 

I do think it sounds very well. I mostly play my beloved tele and got used to those kind of highs, which is excellent in my taste, and this guitar never failed to meet my needs. To me it's fat without mud, shimmer without piercing, best of all worlds to me!

 

Thanks!

it is definitely a 91. This is denoted by the first number of the serial.

[wellercasino]

http://www.epiphonewiki.com/index.php/Epiphone_Japan

 

Is this page missing the 90's terada Riviera? From this page I only find Terada Shereton, perhaps that's why I think it's identity to be a myth in the first place. But it's serial look nothing like the mastsumoku ones mentioned before.

There is less information about surrounding the terada produced guitars as they are less common than the matsumoku made instruments. This is because they were only available in the home market where as matsumoku were a available in other countries albeit in limited numbers.

As far as the Wiki is concerned, it is a good source of info but it does rely on contributions from owners of these guitars as the people that run the site cannot possibly have had access to every epiphone guitar in history.

The terada casino's come up for sale on a fairly regular basis in Japan, in fact one is for sale at ishibashi music as I write this. The Riviera, Sheraton and emporer model's, amongst others are far less common for whatever reason.