abyrd Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm trying to figure out the value of my dad's guitar for him. He said it's a 1960 Gibson ES335 Sunburst. He said he bought it almost new in the 60's. From what I've been able to find out on the internet and from asking him, it's a thin neck and has the dot fingerboard inlays. He said it had a bigsby but my brother removed it. Can anyone give me an idea of the value or tell me how I can find out? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 That is a fine guitar, abyrd. We will need to see some pictures to give it some kind of evaluation. Keep in mind that no one can tell you the real value of it unless they are standing there with cash and are the highest offer. It depends on the age/condition of the guitar, the prestige/credibility of the seller, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Here's a story to ponder while you calculate. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/delta-gibson-guitar-schneider-leevees-zambonis-203119266.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyrd Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Thank you for your replies. I'll get over to his house today and get some pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyrd Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 I went to my dad's today and got the serial number off the guitar. After looking up the serial number on the internet, it showed that it was made in 1974-1975 in Kalamazoo, MI. He got confused and it was his Gibson J50 Flat Top that he bought in the early '60's. Thanks for your offer to help me, but since it isn't worth what we thought it might be, I don't think he's going to sell. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I went to my dad's today and got the serial number off the guitar. After looking up the serial number on the internet, it showed that it was made in 1974-1975 in Kalamazoo, MI. He got confused and it was his Gibson J50 Flat Top that he bought in the early '60's. Thanks for your offer to help me, but since it isn't worth what we thought it might be, I don't think he's going to sell. Thanks again. Abyrd, the serial number decoders are notoriously incorrect. Would you please post some pictures of both it and the J-50? That way we can be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyrd Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 tvguit, Here are a couple of pics of the guitars. The orange sticker inside the ES335 says Kalamazoo, MI, and the number imprinted into the wood is 535891. Let me know what you think. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The orange sticker inside the ES335 says Kalamazoo, MI, and the number imprinted into the wood is 535891. I show that number coming up in 1969. A 74/75 would also have a white/purple label, not orange. A '69 would NOT have a headstock volute, NOR would it have "Made In USA" on the back of the headstock. As both these features came into use sometime in 1970, a 74/75 would have both these. Best I can tell from the photo the headstock logo with the "i" dot, open "b" and "o" also points to late 60's. Potentiometer codes would also help verify the mfg date. As stated, the guitar pictured had a Bigsby at one time, but the Bigsby may have been a mod from the original trapeze, and then back to the trapeze. I not sure this could be determined from photographs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyrd Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Ok, now you have me very interested in figuring out this puzzle. I called my mom and she checked the guitar and said there is no "Made in USA" on the headstock, only on the orange sticker. From reading about a volute, I'm assuming that is a ridge carved in the wood right below the headstock? If so, then my mom doesn't think it has a volute, but I'm going to verify this when I get back out there tomorrow. Is there anything else I should look at or take pictures of? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Once you confirm (or deny) my suspect of the info I gave you above, the mystery to me would be the tailpiece changes. How did it come from the factory? Was the Bigsby added later only to be changed back, etc. In any case the guitar has had (at least) one major modification, which greatly affects it's value. To pin down more specific info here's what photos would be helpful. Full back of headstock Closeup of serial number area Closeup of "Gibson" logo Closeup of tailpiece/Bigsby area Closeup of butt-end of guitar where tailpiece anchors The other piece of information that is very helpful, and required on many 6-digit SN Gibsons, are the potentiometer codes. You'll need a small dental type mirror, a flashlight, and some luck. Stick the little mirror in the lower f-hole, shine the flashlight into the mirror, and look for a seven-digit number on the bottom of the pots. Hopefully they won't all be covered by solder. Your looking for a number that starts with "137". The next four digits are what is important. Potentiometer code format is as follows: MfgYYWW Mfg = the code for who made the pot. 137 = CTS Corporation YY = the last two digits of the year of manufacture WW = the week of the above year What this will tell you is a "born after" date. Assuming the pots are original, the guitar could not have been made prior to this date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The J-50 is from the late 50's or early 60's, and there could be a substantial difference in value depending on which it is. The Factory Order Number (think it it like a serial number) should be ink-stamped on the neck block, which is just below the top under the extension of the fretboard over the top. You should be able to see that just by peering in the soundhole, looking towards the butt end of the neck on the inside of the guitar. It is important to copy that exactly as it is printed in order to establish the year of construction. You could even try to photograph it. The pickup in the soundhole may be in the way a bit when you do this. As L5 Larry says, the 335 is no later than 1969 due to the orange label, which changed in 1970. By that serial number, it is almost certainly a 1969. It also appears to have the fatter f-holes, which I believe were only a characteristic in 1968 and 1969. The serial number suggests early/mid 1969. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The both of them are very sweet-looking! I agree, '69 or so on the 335...! At least pre- bad era! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyrd Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Thanks everyone for your help in identifying the 335. My dad's memory isn't what it used to be, so it's nice to know for sure what we've got. He knows he bought the J50 new at a music store right out of college in 1960 and it was his first guitar, but it will be a few days before I can get back over there to look for some numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 ...the guitar has had (at least) one major modification, which greatly affects it's value. This is a very subjective thing. For one thing, not everyone would agree that a tailpiece change is a "major" modification. A new neck or a refinish would be more "major", for example. Tailpiece changes on semi-hollow Gibsons are far more common and accepted than some other modifications might be. Also, the effect of the tailpiece change on this guitar's value will be far less significant than if it were a highly sought after, higher-value collectible guitar, such as a 335 from 1959, instead of 1969. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Also, the effect of the tailpiece change on this guitar's value will be far less significant than if it were a highly sought after, higher-value collectible guitar, such as a 335 from 1959, instead of 1969. Agree with that completely. Value of the ES 335 drops off dramatically from 1965 on, and while originality is important, it becomes somewhat less critical due to the overall lower value. The trap tail here is period-correct, whether or not it is original. For 1958-1964 ES 335's, originality is a huge determinant of value. Eventually, I suspect the value of all orange-label ES 335's (pre-Norlin), will go up a bit, even these late-60's models with the narrower nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitball Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Jumping in late here, but wanted to echo the opinion of a late 60's guitar. The headstock inlay was changed - in 1969 I believe - to have longer "outer wings"...your Dad's guitar has the older style. It also has the black knobs that were introduced sometime during '67, so by those hints, it looks between late '67 and early '69. If the serial indicates '69, then I think you can be confident it's right. I'm curious whether the neck tenon extends into the pickup cavity or not. That changed in '69 too, and is my main caoncern with early/mid 70's ES-3x5 guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm curious whether the neck tenon extends into the pickup cavity or not. That changed in '69 too, and is my main caoncern with early/mid 70's ES-3x5 guitars The neck tenon seems to vary a lot about this time. My '68 ES 335-12 has the same long neck tenon as earlier models. Of course, since they built relatively few 12's the neck could easily be a year or two older. Only way to know for sure is to pull the neck pickup. It's always good to pull both pickups when buying ES 335's in this period, just to know exactly what you are getting in terms of neck tenon and center block configuration.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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