wanted: set-up advice for heavier strings

[20_Gauge]

Hey y'all

 

I just ordered a set of Ernie Ball Regular Slinkys(10's) to put on my Dot(currently strung w/ 8's, too loose/slinky feeling for my taste).

So I'm wonderin' how many of y'all have 10's on your Dots(or any Electrics for that matter) & are there any adjustments I might need to make 'cause I'm going from 8's to 10's?

 

Thanks

20

[Spamonkis]

You may need to adjust (probably tighten) the truss rod if the heavier strings add unwanted relief, and should check your bridge intonation by comparing the 12th fret harmonic to the fretted note on each string(they should be exactly the same). If the fretted note is flat to the harmonic, move the bridge saddle for that string toward the neck, or toward the bridge if it is sharp.

 

God bless, Spamonkis

[Whitmore Willy]

You may need to adjust (probably tighten) the truss rod if the heavier strings add unwanted relief, and should check your bridge intonation by comparing the 12th fret harmonic to the fretted note on each string(they should be exactly the same). If the fretted note is flat to the harmonic, move the bridge saddle for that string toward the neck, or toward the bridge if it is sharp.

Yup.....Good info.

 

Hey back at you, 20_Gauge,

See if this helps you with some of the procedures:

 

http://mysite.verizon.net/jazz.guitar/guitarsetup.htm

 

Although the neck relief can be checked with a capo and feeler gauges (as exemplified in the above article) These can also be useful:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIBSON-GUITAR-NECK-STRAIGHT-EDGE-Notched-LUTHIERS-TOOL-/260985027471?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3cc3eb7b8f

 

(I wouldn't buy one for a one time setup...but.... if you check all your guitars a couple times a year, they are convenient.)

 

Basic setup is a good thing to know and check for several reasons. (not just changing gauges)

 

Temperature and humidity can have major effects on a guitar.

In my case (Michigan) I check and readjust mine with the changing seasons due to temperature changes.

In your case, you may be dealing with humidity.

If you decide to adjust one of your guitars to a particular tuning, I would recheck everything.

(I'm talking long term)

Why pay a tech $30- $70 for something you can easily do?

 

The most important reason I can think of is:

There is nothing worse than taking a guitar to a tech, dropping it off for 3 days for 10 minutes worth of work and then,

getting it back with a scratch or a ding and the statement:

"It must have been there when you brought it in."

 

Best of luck,

 

Willy

[20_Gauge]

Thanks guys! I was thinkin' I'd prob'ly hafta tighten the truss rod a li'l but wanted to make sure.

 

Speaking of too much neck relief: if I fret my low E(6th string) @ the 12th fret & it buzzes slightly @ the further up(towards the body) the fretboard, would that mean it has too much relief & should be tightened?

 

20

[Gunner]

Speaking of too much neck relief: if I fret my low E(6th string) @ the 12th fret & it buzzes slightly @ the further up(towards the body) the fretboard, would that mean it has too much relief & should be tightened?

The truss rod doesn't affect the neck much in that area. More likely you would need to raise the bridge a little in that scenario. Neck relief generally affects buzzing more in the lower frets.

[Spamonkis]

if I fret my low E(6th string) @ the 12th fret & it buzzes slightly @ the further up(towards the body) the fretboard, would that mean it has too much relief & should be tightened?

 

NO! You probably have some high frets up at the body (common for arch tops) that would cause what you describe.

 

To check your neck adjustment, put a capo (or just fret) the first fret. Then use your thumb to fret the same string on an upper fret, and use the pinky of that same hand to push the string down at the mid point. If it is already touching at the mid-point, you may have a back bow and the truss rod may need to be loosened. What you want is flat to slightly curved up, depending on your playing technique. When you push down on the mid point, there should only be a barely noticable movement of the string. If your picking technique is light and precise enough, you can slowly lower it (tightening the truss rod) until it is perfectly straight, but you can't have any backbow at all.

 

Truss rod adjustments should be done slowly and carefully. I never go more than 3/4 of a turn at first (if it has a good bit of relief). Then half a turn. After that, if it needs more, I wait 15 minutes and then go a quarter turn at a time, waiting 15 minutes between each to allow the neck to settle in. For my own instruments, I go for flat, so I do 1/8 turn adjustments when it gets close to be sure I do not go too far and get back-bow.

 

God bless, Spamonkis

[20_Gauge]

The truss rod doesn't affect the neck much in that area. More likely you would need to raise the bridge a little in that scenario. Neck relief generally affects buzzing more in the lower frets.

 

 

Ok thanks, Gunner. Yeah I didn't really see how affecting the middle area of the neck would impact the higher up area. The middle area of the neck is good to go w/ no buzz.

It's prob'ly the "extra slinky" EB 8's that are preventing me from lowering the string height to where I want it(w/o the fret buzz), got some EB 10's ordered & on the way.

 

20

[20_Gauge]

NO! You probably have some high frets up at the body (common for arch tops) that would cause what you describe.

 

To check your neck adjustment, put a capo (or just fret) the first fret. Then use your thumb to fret the same string on an upper fret, and use the pinky of that same hand to push the string down at the mid point. If it is already touching at the mid-point, you may have a back bow and the truss rod may need to be loosened. What you want is flat to slightly curved up, depending on your playing technique. When you push down on the mid point, there should only be a barely noticable movement of the string. If your picking technique is light and precise enough, you can slowly lower it (tightening the truss rod) until it is perfectly straight, but you can't have any backbow at all.

 

Truss rod adjustments should be done slowly and carefully. I never go more than 3/4 of a turn at first (if it has a good bit of relief). Then half a turn. After that, if it needs more, I wait 15 minutes and then go a quarter turn at a time, waiting 15 minutes between each to allow the neck to settle in. For my own instruments, I go for flat, so I do 1/8 turn adjustments when it gets close to be sure I do not go too far and get back-bow.

 

God bless, Spamonkis

 

Thanks for the info, Spamonkis.

 

Ok, didn't know that was common for Archtops. I did look at my frets(in the buzzing area) & they do seem kinda high.

 

Yeah I've had to adjust the rod on my EJ-200, it was my first ever guitar adjustment & I was shakin' like a leaf. When I made the initial turn & the glue around the rod loosened & made a "breaking loose" crack, my heart about stopped haha. Everything turned out quite good, in fact I just took my EJ to the shop to get the bridge lowered & he said the neck was perfect(I kinda stood tall when he said that). Have since adjusted the rods on my LP & Dot. I'm w/ ya, I always go very slow & make minor turns & if I feel any resistance I stop. Adjusting the rod s a last resort for me, I feel like there's a greater chance of me breaking it doing that.

 

God Bless

20

[20_Gauge]

I put the EB 10's on my Dot & really like'em.

 

I didn't hafta touch the truss rod & got the action pretty low(in my opinion), 4/64" @ the 12th fret.

 

20

[Riptide]

"Neck Relief: fret the low E at the first and 15th fret (not 12th) reach to the 7th fret and tap string. There should be a small space between string and fret - no thicker than a piece of paper. Do the same with the high E.

 

Action: fret low E at first fret and measure the distance from the bottom of the to the top of the 15th fret. It should be 5/64". Do the same with the high E, measurement should be 3/64". Now measure the string height at the nut; underside of the string to the top of the fret. Low E and A should measure 2/64", D and G =1.5/64" and B and high E = 1/64". If string height at nut is correct, recheck string height at 12th fret with strings open. Measurement for low and high E's should be the same as measurement taken at the 15th.

 

Pickups: Fret low E at 22nd fret and measure pickup height from underside of string to point on pickup closest to string. Bridge pickup should be 3/64", neck pickup should be 4/32". Fret high E at 22nd fret, distance for both pickups should be 3/32".

 

Play test: Play every string at every fret checking for buzzes. Bend High E string 1 and 1/2 steps, beginning at the sixth fret and ending at 22nd, checking for "choking" and to make sure string stays in nut notch."

 

That is what I found that Gibson uses to set-up their guitars :) And you can us coins as budget gauges ;) Nickle = 5/64ths Quarter = 4.5/64ths Penny = 4/64ths Dime = 3.5/64ths.

[20_Gauge]

"Neck Relief: fret the low E at the first and 15th fret (not 12th) reach to the 7th fret and tap string. There should be a small space between string and fret - no thicker than a piece of paper. Do the same with the high E.

 

Action: fret low E at first fret and measure the distance from the bottom of the to the top of the 15th fret. It should be 5/64". Do the same with the high E, measurement should be 3/64". Now measure the string height at the nut; underside of the string to the top of the fret. Low E and A should measure 2/64", D and G =1.5/64" and B and high E = 1/64". If string height at nut is correct, recheck string height at 12th fret with strings open. Measurement for low and high E's should be the same as measurement taken at the 15th.

 

Pickups: Fret low E at 22nd fret and measure pickup height from underside of string to point on pickup closest to string. Bridge pickup should be 3/64", neck pickup should be 4/32". Fret high E at 22nd fret, distance for both pickups should be 3/32".

 

Play test: Play every string at every fret checking for buzzes. Bend High E string 1 and 1/2 steps, beginning at the sixth fret and ending at 22nd, checking for "choking" and to make sure string stays in nut notch."

 

That is what I found that Gibson uses to set-up their guitars :) And you can us coins as budget gauges ;) Nickle = 5/64ths Quarter = 4.5/64ths Penny = 4/64ths Dime = 3.5/64ths.

 

Thanks a bunch, Rip! Thrilled to have Gibson set-up specs.

I've been referring to YouTube(or other guitar sites) for set-up advice but am soo glad to finally have Manufacturer specs.

Time to break out the toolbox & fine tune my Dot(the only guitar I have w/ me at this time).

 

20

[Bluemans335]

Yeah, 8' are pretty thin and loose. but going up two gauges at one time is a big jump. I'd never do it. I went from 8's to 9's years ago, and stopped there. Tried 10's in a few guitars but there was too much tension, and bending was much more difficult. Not worth it for me.

[20_Gauge]

Yeah, 8' are pretty thin and loose. but going up two gauges at one time is a big jump. I'd never do it. I went from 8's to 9's years ago, and stopped there. Tried 10's in a few guitars but there was too much tension, and bending was much more difficult. Not worth it for me.

 

I started with 9's & went to 8's thinkin' they'd be easier on the fingers but didn't realize how loose they'd feel(shoulda heeded the advice from the reviews). I agree that's a big jump but I play 10's on my EJ-200 so I figured I'd put 10's on my Electrics so my fingers would be used to the feel. I'm not at the point where I'm doin' any bends & frankly most of the songs I'm tryin' don't have any bends in'em anyway.

 

20

[20_Gauge]

"Neck Relief: fret the low E at the first and 15th fret (not 12th) reach to the 7th fret and tap string. There should be a small space between string and fret - no thicker than a piece of paper. Do the same with the high E.

 

Action: fret low E at first fret and measure the distance from the bottom of the to the top of the 15th fret. It should be 5/64". Do the same with the high E, measurement should be 3/64". Now measure the string height at the nut; underside of the string to the top of the fret. Low E and A should measure 2/64", D and G =1.5/64" and B and high E = 1/64". If string height at nut is correct, recheck string height at 12th fret with strings open. Measurement for low and high E's should be the same as measurement taken at the 15th.

 

Pickups: Fret low E at 22nd fret and measure pickup height from underside of string to point on pickup closest to string. Bridge pickup should be 3/64", neck pickup should be 4/32". Fret high E at 22nd fret, distance for both pickups should be 3/32".

 

Play test: Play every string at every fret checking for buzzes. Bend High E string 1 and 1/2 steps, beginning at the sixth fret and ending at 22nd, checking for "choking" and to make sure string stays in nut notch."

 

That is what I found that Gibson uses to set-up their guitars :) And you can us coins as budget gauges ;) Nickle = 5/64ths Quarter = 4.5/64ths Penny = 4/64ths Dime = 3.5/64ths.

 

Just broke out the ruler & did some close measuring. My action was/is right on the money, didn't hafta adjust anything. Couldn't believe it, talk about dumb luck!

 

I eyeballed the relief & it looks pretty spot on too might be a li'l thicker than a piece of paper but not by much, if any. Don't have a capo(or a 3rd hand ) w/ me to properly check it. Will do it later.

Don't really wanna touch the truss rod, so seein' that it's really close to right, I'll prob'ly leave but will check it.

 

Did hafta slightly adjust the p'ups but they were pretty close already.

 

20

[Riptide]

Haha! Wow Remember the important thing is 1. That your strings have enough space to move and 2. That it feels good to you. There is variation in there for your personal preferences that you will acquire with time :)

 

As far as intonation goes, fret your low E on the first fret with your left hand, then put the thumb of your right hand on the 15th fret, then use your middle finger to tap the 7th fret. I set it to about two pieces of paper usually. :) Hope that helps!

 

I lower my pickups a little bit lower than spec so (hopefully) the strings vibrate more freely. Check this out.

[20_Gauge]

Haha! Wow Remember the important thing is 1. That your strings have enough space to move and 2. That it feels good to you. There is variation in there for your personal preferences that you will acquire with time :)

 

As far as intonation goes, fret your low E on the first fret with your left hand, then put the thumb of your right hand on the 15th fret, then use your middle finger to tap the 7th fret. I set it to about two pieces of paper usually. :) Hope that helps!

 

I lower my pickups a little bit lower than spec so (hopefully) the strings vibrate more freely. Check this out.

 

Yeah, this set-up is pretty comfortable to me & the strings seem to vibrate good. That bein' said I'm sure as I continue to grow(guitar-wise) I will experiment w/ altering this set-up but for now it's good to know I have a "factory" base set-up to start from.

 

Yeah, I've done that rough estimation & it looks to me that 2 pieces of paper is about what mines relief is.

 

I'm going for a more distorted Country Rock sound(look up Jason Aldean's `My Kinda Party` for example) so I tend to have my p'ups set up high as possible w/o pulling the strings outta tune.

 

20

[Riptide]

A lot of times I think you can get better tone tone from backing things of a little. I realized after using a lot of gain for a while that many artist that I was imitating used a lot less gain then I originally thought. Like Angus Young uses the clean channel in his amp... it's just turned up really loud. But to each his own! I play punk type of stuff mostly and I usually use a "backed off" approach on my guitars (low p/ups, highish action) and the normal channel in an AC15... that thing can get plenty of gain! Also, so much of your tone is in your hands, you can go from dirty to clean just with them!

[20_Gauge]

A lot of times I think you can get better tone tone from backing things of a little. I realized after using a lot of gain for a while that many artist that I was imitating used a lot less gain then I originally thought. Like Angus Young uses the clean channel in his amp... it's just turned up really loud. But to each his own! I play punk type of stuff mostly and I usually use a "backed off" approach on my guitars (low p/ups, highish action) and the normal channel in an AC15... that thing can get plenty of gain! Also, so much of your tone is in your hands, you can go from dirty to clean just with them!

 

Yeah I'm sure the guys I'm tryin' to replicate have some "road secrets" they're usin' to get they're sound whether it's Pedals or just Amp settings.

 

I use mostly OverDrive settings w/ moderate Gain on my Mustang but I've been experimentin' w/ the Clean channel(w/ the Treble & Bass cranked) on the li'l VOX amp I just got. Messin' w/ Amp settings/presets is half the fun .

 

Dude don't worry, I've just begun experimentin' w/ p'up height[biggrin]. I just wanted a base setting before I went messin' around too much.

Not gonna mess w/ action though, prefer it as low as possible.

 

Yeah the 2 instruments at the ends of your arms have a lot to do with sound too, I need work there .

 

20

[Riptide]

Yeah I'm sure the guys I'm tryin' to replicate have some "road secrets" they're usin' to get they're sound whether it's Pedals or just Amp settings.

 

I use mostly OverDrive settings w/ moderate Gain on my Mustang but I've been experimentin' w/ the Clean channel(w/ the Treble & Bass cranked) on the li'l VOX amp I just got. Messin' w/ Amp settings/presets is half the fun .

 

Dude don't worry, I've just begun experimentin' w/ p'up height[biggrin]. I just wanted a base setting before I went messin' around too much.

Not gonna mess w/ action though, prefer it as low as possible.

 

Yeah the 2 instruments at the ends of your arms have a lot to do with sound too, I need work there .

 

20

 

Sounds like you're going in the right direction! ;)

[20_Gauge]

Sounds like you're going in the right direction! ;)

 

Cool!

That makes me feel better 'cause most of the time I think I'm doing it right & then get told I've been goin' about it the wrong way. Thanks for giving me confidence!

 

20

[20_Gauge]

Strapped a set of EB 10's on my LP Jr last night & tuned it up, let it sit overnight to let the neck "adjust". I picked it up today & played it today for 'bout 1/2 hour & thought I'd hafta adjust('cause I jumped 2 gauges from 8's) the truss rod to adjust for the added tension but surprisingly I didn't. Plus, I was able to lower the action to 3/64". I'm happy! [biggrin]

 

20

[Bluemans335]

It may catch up with your fingers later.

[20_Gauge]

It may catch up with your fingers later.

 

It might, we'll see.

 

20