JimR56 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Please have a look at this thread in the "Instrument ID and Information" forum: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/108836-gibson-real-or-fake-help/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffmac Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 LOL read what people said in the post. he people that answered know what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 There's another thread here "how to spot a fake Gibson acoustic" that has a long series of replies about this guitar over the last few days, at the end of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 LOL read what people said in the post. he people that answered know what they are talking about. ?? Why "LOL"? In the "post"? Do you mean the thread that I linked? Do you realize that I'm one of the people that answered? I already admitted that I have more questions than answers on this guitar, but your post strikes me as a bit confused and rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 There's another thread here "how to spot a fake Gibson acoustic" that has a long series of replies about this guitar over the last few days, at the end of the thread. Thanks for the heads up. This guitar might be bogus, but it's not your garden variety fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffmac Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 ?? Why "LOL"? In the "post"? Do you mean the thread that I linked? Do you realize that I'm one of the people that answered? I already admitted that I have more questions than answers on this guitar, but your post strikes me as a bit confused and rude. I apologize very much I did not mean to come across that way and I didn't realize you were one of the people that answered. Again sorry, to this guitar I have seen any photos anywhere that show a headstock like that. I'm not 100% its a fake but wouldn't say it was the real deal either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 My comments on this are already on the how to spot a fake thread, but to summarize, I don't immediately see any reason to discount this as not being a real Gibson - except the general weirdness factor. Personally I'd love to know more about this guitar. It looks like a well made instrument, not the run of the mill Chinese copy. Body shape looks ok, baring in mind the camera angle. Lacquer looks like a Gibson job, the headstock inlay work looks right and very much looks like it might have started life as a stock L-5 reissue headstock veneer. If it's a fake, why go to such lengths to create such a peculiar beast? It would be interesting to see photos of the rear view, particularly back of headstock, and the interior (bracing etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 It would be interesting to see photos of the rear view, particularly back of headstock, and the interior (bracing etc). We may never see it, as 'some of these' things go ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffmac Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Check this link out viewed a tone of images and I don't see anything that compares to this guitar. Possible the body is a Gibson but the head stock isn't right at all. Actually resembles takamines headstocks home.provide.net/~cfh/gibson.html View shared post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Ok, well here's an original L-5 headstock - look at the overlay, not the shape. It's not exactly the same, but this photo is a '20s guitar not a '90s reissue: It's a Gibson overlay or at least a close copy of one. Now here's a particularly weird Gibson from the '90s, an M-6 mandolin: Lastly, here's an ES-336 headstock from 1996: Neither are identical, granted, but I think there's plenty of precedent to suggest this could be a Gibson creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffmac Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Ok, well here's an original L-5 headstock - look at the overlay, not the shape. It's not exactly the same, but this photo is a '20s guitar not a '90s reissue: It's a Gibson overlay or at least a close copy of one. Now here's a particularly weird Gibson from the '90s, an M-6 mandolin: Lastly, here's an ES-336 headstock from 1996: Neither are identical, granted, but I think there's plenty of precedent to suggest this could be a Gibson creation. Again I should just listen and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thejohn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 This is the back of the headstock. I posted in the most relevant threads to get better answers. Once again any help would be great. I appreciate every bit of help so far JimR56 and everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks for the new pics! I am not sure 'which' is the 'most relevant' thread anymore, but the painted 'stinger' on the back of the peghead,sets off alarms for a repair coverup. I think now that the guitar had a headstock break and someone had a little fun and replaced it with what you now see! That is my theory and I am sticking to it. That is fresh lacquer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think there's plenty of precedent to suggest this could be a Gibson creation. I agree, and thanks for providing those photos. The thing about the headstock that still strikes me as most odd is the asymmetry of the tapered curves on either side of the lower end of the headstock. The stinger doesn't necessarily send up any red flags for me, although Rod's idea is plausible. I still get more of a sense that this is an oddball/one-off (but legit) Gibson than a fake. But it's a real oddball. :) I'm still hoping for more input from more of the flattop experts around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I am not sure 'which' is the 'most relevant' thread anymore... Me neither. I had intended this thread only as a link to the one I linked in the opening post, but now this guitar is being discussed in three different threads, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 The spacing on those tuners is pretty terrible. Not that I'd entirely rule Gibson out for that reason... I still don't know: I can definitely see Retrorod's point - a decent repairer with a love of the old Snakehead mandolins, a guitar with a bad headstock break and a spare L-5 overlay doesn't seem an unreasonable explanation. I could also see a guitar with a headstock break at the factory and somebody said, well, rather than scrap it why don't we try out that Snakehead idea we were talking about, see how it looks? When did Gibson stop using Kalamazoo on the label? I'm having a very hard time seeing this guitar as more than 20 years old, and I don't have a '90s Gibson on hand to check but would have expected Montana on the label. Thejohn, how familiar are you with Gibson acoustics generally? Is the sound anywhere near what you would expect from a Slope Shoulder Gibson? Occasionally we get so hung up on the small details we overlook the obvious! I'm also curious as to the price they're asking: I've a nasty feeling they're going to think a custom guitar is going to be valuable. Whatever the forum verdict, without proper provenance this guitar is going to be a very hard sell, and even with someone from the Montana chiming in and saying yes, it's a mock up of something we were thinking about doing, I'm not sure a quirky prototype of a model that never happened is a hugely valuable instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Here are some more 'opinions' to digest of the 'original model'.... http://www.harmonyce...0/td-p/17317202 http://www.tfoa.eu/t...roduct_id=37873 http://grahamparkerl...ir-gibson-j-30/ ....perhaps you could use an inspection mirror to look at the internal structure to see if it matches to this guitar? "Caveat"....of course by now.... (with so much attention to the guitar) .....the Pawn Shop dealer may have more dollar signs running through his head.... For all we know, you may be the Pawn Shop dealer? In either case, I agree with the previous post Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thejohn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Here are some more 'opinions' to digest of the 'original model'.... http://www.harmonyce...0/td-p/17317202 http://www.tfoa.eu/t...roduct_id=37873 http://grahamparkerl...ir-gibson-j-30/ ....perhaps you could use an inspection mirror to look at the internal structure to see if it matches to this guitar? "Caveat"....of course by now.... (with so much attention to the guitar) .....the Pawn Shop dealer may have more dollar signs running through his head.... For all we know, you may be the Pawn Shop dealer? In either case, I agree with the previous post Rod I wish I were the pawn shop and not the person thinking about buying it, that would make this so much easier. I haven't told any of this to them yet, they are firm that it is a real Gibson, but have done no legwork to say one way or the other. I'm just trying to make sure I'm not fixing to spend 800 dollars on an expensive wooden paper weight. I have played a few Gibsons. Own a few electric gibsons, but have not owned and played enough acoustic Gibsons to be anywhere near an expert. I know most of the models and that's about it. However it does sound and play like a quality instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I appreciate your honesty. While $800, is not 'chump change' it is far less than I would have thought that "pawn shop heroes" would be asking for it. Have you not heard back from Gibson Inc. ? I really don,t know any more to tell you....If you buy it, YOU will have to establish 'provenance'(if you re-sell)....OR be happy with your purchase and hang on to it, for your investment, I guess? I wish there was a definitve conclusion on its 'validity'....however! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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