bweker Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm still in the early decision stage, but I'm thinking about buying the ES-175. I'm more of a blues player--not a jazz guy. Is the ES-175 a good guitar for the blues? Most of the YouTube videos I've seen really emphasize the jazz aspects of the guitar. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 PM Californiaman, he's a 175 afficianado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolongermike@gibson Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 They are ALL good for the blues. Just don't put flat wound strings on them. :) Seriously, Jerry from Moby Grape has been wailing blues on a 175 for years, and he screams with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Nahum Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 If you have in mind your howling blues a la BB King, I'd be looking at a Thinline like a 335, 345 or 355. as they can get a bit more of an edge in their tone and are less prone to feedback. From my limited experience, 175s excel at that warmer jazz tone but are not as strong in other areas. But different strokes.... RN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Robot Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 If you have in mind your howling blues a la BB King' date=' I'd be looking at a Thinline like a 335, 345 or 355. as they can get a bit more of an edge in their tone and are less prone to feedback. From my limited experience, 175s excel at that warmer jazz tone but are not as strong in other areas. But different strokes.... RN [/quote'] I tend to agree. I own a 175, and it is more suited for jazz than blues I think personally. There are other options. Someone mentioned the 335 which is more versatile. I think the 137 is also worth a look and a hell of a lot cheaper. I know some guys here have been blogging about the 336 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack59 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 For their versatility I'd go with the 335/345355 - everything from jazzy tones to searing blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I can play BB on my 175 and it sounds damn good -- nobody "needs" a 335 to play BB-style, that's retarded. 175s kick *** for blues. I play a hell of a lot of blues on my 175. And as a +, you'll stand out more from the pack if you don't play a DC thinline such as a 335... like every other swinging d!ck does. As for feedback, blues is not often played so damn loud that it's an issue... and if you are playing that loud, it's probably in a large room or outdoor stage where your guitar won't be bombarded nonstop by feedback-inducing speaker output. It's only ever a problem for me if I'm in a garage-size room or smaller, and I have the amp cranked. Or if I want that feedback a la Nuge or Sonic Youth or whatever. 175 is a very, very versatile guitar that is very, very comfortable to hold and play standing or sitting for extended periods of time. (it's damn light and perfectly balanced... I have never ever played a better model in this regard). On youtube, most players are unoriginal pack animals who conform to the herd. It is a common aesthetic to see blues guys on 335s & jazzers on 175s... make your own aesthetic & do what feels right to your hands and body, then your ears, then your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Controlling the feedback howl of a 175 at loud volumes is manageable only with experience. I use Di'Addario wound strings on my 175 with a wound G-string. My style of blues is down and dirty. Sometimes clean, but I like my sound fat and dirty. Yes it's possible to use for the blues. You just have to find the right volume and tone you want. There's nothing wrong with a clean, T-Bone Walker sound when you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I can play BB on my 175 and it sounds damn good -- nobody "needs" a 335 to play BB-style' date=' that's retarded. 175s kick *** for blues. I play a [i']hell[/i] of a lot of blues on my 175. And as a +, you'll stand out more from the pack if you don't play a DC thinline such as a 335... like every other swinging d!ck does. As for feedback, blues is not often played so damn loud that it's an issue... and if you are playing that loud, it's probably in a large room or outdoor stage where your guitar won't be bombarded nonstop by feedback-inducing speaker output. It's only ever a problem for me if I'm in a garage-size room or smaller, and I have the amp cranked. Or if I want that feedback a la Nuge or Sonic Youth or whatever. 175 is a very, very versatile guitar that is very, very comfortable to hold and play standing or sitting for extended periods of time. (it's damn light and perfectly balanced... I have never ever played a better model in this regard). On youtube, most players are unoriginal pack animals who conform to the herd. It is a common aesthetic to see blues guys on 335s & jazzers on 175s... make your own aesthetic & do what feels right to your hands and body, then your ears, then your eyes. Yeah... what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.B.G. Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 One fairly major consideration not yet mentioned...335's/45's/55's/36's/39's and 137's/135's all give more access higher up the neck than a 175 since the neck joins the body two frets further out. May not seem like much, but you can run out of frets pretty fast if you like to play in the higher registers. For years I've played an ES225 (175 shape with a thin, HOLLOW body made in 1957) with the same neck joint as the 175. Just recently I got a 335 and a Firebird, and I was finally able to get to all those higher notes. Maybe that's not important to your playing style, but you might want to consider it in terms of, if someday you want those higher frets and they're not there, no way you can tack 'em on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 You raise a valid point, NBG: no 21st & 22nd frets is the only con to the 175! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_lee Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I kinda agree with the ol' mantra "ain't no money past the 12th fret"... lol. but yeah, the right ES-175 can do blues, jazz, country, swing, rockabilly whatever... you just make it your own thing. might I suggest one of these: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-Custom-ES-175-Electric-Guitar-with-P-90-Pickups-513932-i1275448.gc (p.s. I'm not a GC shill, I bought mine from Fuller's) in all seriousness, these guitars simply kill. I've owned a lot of Gretsches and MANY Gibsons - new and old- and my reissue more than does the job. Oh and for less than half the price of a vintage 50's model. anyway, just another option to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ES-175 is one of the great original Gibson designs and everyone from Wes to Pat Matheney have given it up on one. Scotty Moore used an ES295 (the fancy gold version of the ES175) on the early Elvis stuff. Through a vintage tweed Fender amp it renders a unique tone unto itself. The negatives are, of course, feedback issues, uneven response, lack of sustain, etc. Use light gauge strings with an unwound third and you may be chasing the bridge all over the top. After a bit of time using a hollow body fr blues or rock you learn why the solid body guitar was invented. :) FWIW, I once owned an ES295 that had been traded in by Frankie Yankovic's guitar player. Musicology Lesson #1 for today: Frankie Yankovic was the "Polka King" and had a Saturday afternoon show on local Chicago TV. He made the guitar player spray the all gold guitar brown so it wouldn't detract from Frankie's wardrobe. Anyway, I wanted a vintage ES175 and this beat up, odd looking old brown duck looked like one but it said "ES295" on the orange label inside. No one I knew had ever heard of one. So, undaunted I carefully stripped it to the bare wood ("hey, look, it was gold, all gold.") and had a local guy that was a Gibson master luthier (Milan Opacich) refinish it for me in sunburst. You could have never told it had been refinished without some microscopic sleuthing. Got some black pickup covers, an ES175 tailpiece, bridge & pickguard, hey, we were jammin'. Played blues & jazz stuff on it for a couple years before it got traded away. Somewhere out there there's some guy arguing with Gruhn..."yes, they did make sunburst ES295's, this things really rare & worth a fortune, George!" I also at one time owned a very rare Epiphone Howard Roberts, which was a 175 with a spruce top, round sound hole and a Johnny Smith pickup. Shoulda kep' it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Robot Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I can play BB on my 175 and it sounds damn good -- nobody "needs" a 335 to play BB-style' date=' that's retarded. 175s kick *** for blues. I play a [i']hell[/i] of a lot of blues on my 175. And as a +, you'll stand out more from the pack if you don't play a DC thinline such as a 335... like every other swinging d!ck does. As for feedback, blues is not often played so damn loud that it's an issue... and if you are playing that loud, it's probably in a large room or outdoor stage where your guitar won't be bombarded nonstop by feedback-inducing speaker output. It's only ever a problem for me if I'm in a garage-size room or smaller, and I have the amp cranked. Or if I want that feedback a la Nuge or Sonic Youth or whatever. 175 is a very, very versatile guitar that is very, very comfortable to hold and play standing or sitting for extended periods of time. (it's damn light and perfectly balanced... I have never ever played a better model in this regard). On youtube, most players are unoriginal pack animals who conform to the herd. It is a common aesthetic to see blues guys on 335s & jazzers on 175s... make your own aesthetic & do what feels right to your hands and body, then your ears, then your eyes. Hey Brundaddy - why dont you tell us what you really think B) Your are correct of course - the 175 is a wonderful guitar and I try and play all sorts of syles on it. Hell, if Ted Nugent can use a Byrdland we can use a 175 for blues. I just think the 335 is more suited - better neck access, more sustain and less feedback. But I love both. Hell, I've even played Kiss on my 175. Shocked the hell out of them in the guitar shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_lee Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 great story. love the bit at the end re: gruhn / sunburst 295... that is too funny. oddly enough, before I found my '54 ES-175D, I was trying to work a deal on a trade for a refinned 295, it was more of a cherry-flavored sunburst, probably done in the early 60's or something. glad I opted for an original in sunburst! ...Anyway' date=' I wanted a vintage ES175 and this beat up, odd looking old brown duck looked like one but it said "ES295" on the orange label inside. No one I knew had ever heard of one. So, undaunted I carefully stripped it to the bare wood ("hey, look, it was gold, all gold.") and had a local guy that was a Gibson master luthier (Milan Opacich) refinish it for me in sunburst. You could have never told it had been refinished without some microscopic sleuthing. Got some black pickup covers, an ES175 tailpiece, bridge & pickguard, hey, we were jammin'. Played blues & jazz stuff on it for a couple years before it got traded away. Somewhere out there there's some guy arguing with Gruhn..."yes, they did make sunburst ES295's, this things really rare & worth a fortune, George!"[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninety1vee Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 i like the 135, and 137, my experience w/ the 175 is pretty limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 First... I'm personally convinced that the major factor for a guitar player/guitarist is whether he likes the instrument and it likes him and his style. Period. Yeah, I've got a few guitars but the 175 type likely always will be the true favorite in spite of some weaknesses. I use light strings - 42 through 9 - and never had a problem with the bridge walking around. But I'm probably even more gentle than the average classical guitar player. The problem I've had has been more along the lines of weather sensitivity that affects the tuning. It doesn't work well to take it from -15 to a +70 environment. But again, what trips your trigger. If the guitar likes you and you like the guitar, anything can do blues. Heck, you can do blues on a fiddle or a banjo or a parlor guitar or ... heck, you name it. Look at the stuff the first couple of waves of bluesmen played. These are the guys that influenced BB and his generation. It was what they could get, not necessarily what they may have wanted. But they made it work and in a lot of cases, kept the cheapie or oddball simply because they got used to it and the sound had become their own. The sound had become their own. That's Blues. Not Delta copy or Chicago copy or Gary Davis copy or Mississippi John Hurt copy or Howlin' Wolf copy or... You like the feel of the 175? Play it. You prefer picking a smaller size accoustic with a soundhole pickup because you love the neck and the sound ain't really "bad?" Play it. Make the guitar yours, and you the guitar's. Then you don't think about it. It's the Zen of music that you probably will sound best when you try least to sound best. If you're thinking about this guitar or that, rather than just playing something comfortable, it's likely to take longer... Be you. Hell, it took me years to take my own advice in public although I'd done it for years at home. Whoever you are, and whatever guitar is comfortable. And strings are comfortable. And... Whatever. I'm just an old guy who doesn't make his living with the guitar although it bought me some decent "stuff" some years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES345 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 +1 milod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 great story. love the bit at the end re: gruhn / sunburst 295... that is too funny. oddly enough' date=' before I found my '54 ES-175D, I was trying to work a deal on a trade for a refinned 295, it was more of a cherry-flavored sunburst, probably done in the early 60's or something. glad I opted for an original in sunburst![/quote'] Well, after reading this thread and thinking on ES175s and this old ES295 I once had I scanned eBay earlier and look what I found: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220340640387 Not sure if it's my old one or not, but looks pretty close. The peghead serial number was in the gold finish that had to come off so that part rings true, as does the label designating "ES 295 Spl.". The case sure looks familiar, too. The pickups, pickguard & knobs would have been added later. Sent the guy a note about it and asked where it had come from. Let's see what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Wait now... "See what he says"? That's been removed already. What's up with that? Is, no wait, "Was" that your guitar? Was it stolen from you or something? Did you trade it for another guitar at one time? Seems like we have a mystery on our hands here. I got to know now what the deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sorry, it's still listed. If you want to see it copy that link I posted and paste it in your browser, or do an eBay search on ES295. Apparently the listing's link is too long for this forum's code to do correctly. Anyway, yes, if that truly is my old ES295, and it looks like it is, in early '69 I traded it for a sweet '57 ES350T at Judy's Music in Calumet City, IL. Somewhere along the way someone added the humbuckers, white pickguard and witch hat knobs. The guy who listed it got back to me and is going to update his listing. I'll keep an eye on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_lee Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 yeah, that 295 has been on eBay for eons. I was wondering what the deal was with the pickups and pickguard, definitely NOT 295 originals! hey californiaman, nice black ES-175 you got there! I had a 1991 that was very similar... I ended up trading it, and it eventually landed over at Buffalo Bros in San Diego: http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images29000-29999/ugb29349-gibsones175blk/index.html I actually put the Duncan Alnico V Staple pickups and the Bigsby on that one. Those 90's black 175's are pretty sweet, but had my heart set on a '54 so I traded it. Yours is gorgeous as well. But back on topic, Milod is indeed right on the money. Kinda what I was getting at, make the guitar your own, etc... but he was able to convey it rather eloquently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Sorry' date=' it's still listed. If you want to see it copy that link I posted and paste it in your browser, or do an eBay search on ES295. Apparently the listing's link is too long for this forum's code to do correctly. Anyway, yes, if that truly is my old ES295, and it looks like it is, in early '69 I traded it for a sweet '57 ES350T at Judy's Music in Calumet City, IL. Somewhere along the way someone added the humbuckers, white pickguard and witch hat knobs. The guy who listed it got back to me and is going to update his listing. I'll keep an eye on it. [/quote'] So what's the difference between the 295 (that one is certainly a beauty) and the 175? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images29000-29999/ugb29349-gibsones175blk/index.html Hey Henry, that Bigsby looks so nice on that guitar. I've been toying with the idea of one for my ES 175 for some time now. I guess I'm apprehensive about changing the guitar. I like it bone stock original. But I do love a Bigsby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 So what's the difference between the 295 (that one is certainly a beauty) and the 175? Original (and RI) ES295s were essentially 175s finished in gold, either with just a gold top, or all gold as had been the case with my old one. Folklore has it that Les Paul commissioned the first one for a friend in the hospital. Aside from a sort of cream colored pickguard with a gold floral inlay, they also had a different tailpiece / bridge combination derived from the '52 - '53 Les Paul, although on the 295 the strings wrapped over the bridge piece, not under. Otherwise they were identical best I can tell. Those weren't replicated for the Reissues, as they weren't very good and on the originals had often been discarded in favor of either a 175 tailpiece & bridge, or as was the case with mine, a bunch of junk that came from heaven knows where. Very cool guitars, none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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