Miguello Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 When I play a bar chord just for the three lower strings, there is a wavering sound almost like a vibrato/tremolo. It is in tune, and I got the intonation as close to humanly possible, nearly spot on all strings. All strings are tuned and also tuned to each other, on an online tuner that uses a scale showing high and low. Anyway, whenever you let a chord sustain on the bass strings, they sound out of tune. This is a 9 year old guitar that has no fret marks from the time it was new. Zero fret wear. The frets are dirty of course, but theres not a sign on the frets that it was ever played. Does this sound like an old string problem, intonation issue (even though it is nearly exact) or maybe a tuning issue(the nut is tight and sticking) Or possibly a combination of all three? I was hoping it was a problem with the harness, and pots (which I plan to replace anyway) but alas, it does it unplugged as well. A G chord sounds nearly perfect....? no wavering. I am going to whip this guitar into shape eventually. Nothing left of the original wiring, everything will be redone. CTS pots, orange drops, etc. Outwardly, it should look exactly like it does now. I don't plan to change much appearance wise. It looks good like it is. The knobs will have to be changed, because of the larger shafts probably. Otherwise, I want to keep it looking as close to this as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 These things tend to happen, and it's a complex entanglement of causes and effects. Most important points to mention are unavoidable string inharmonicities varying from string to string, and human hearing. I would try the following to overcome the situation: First, use 2nd harmonics for tuning E6th, A5th, and G3rd, and compare to the fundamentals. Second, check E6th fretted @ 5th against A5th open, and 2nd harmonic of E6th against A5th fretted @ 7th. Repeat in same manner for A5th/D4th, and D4th/G3rd. Then check G3rd fretted @ 4th against B2nd open, and 2nd harmonic of G3rd against B2nd fretted @ 8th. Finally there's B2nd fretted @ 5th against E1st open, and 2nd harmonic of B2nd against E1st fretted @ 7th. This will tell you what to do for optimizing. Tuning the entire guitar to match the desired pitch perfectly - for me it's A4 = 440 Hz - may take some experience, but you will get it rather fast. After trying several times you may do it in much less time than it takes to read my description. I do this regularly, and I found it to be the best way to achieve "recording grade" tuning. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 These things tend to happen, and it's a complex entanglement of causes and effects. Most important points to mention are unavoidable string inharmonicities varying from string to string, and human hearing. I would try the following to overcome the situation: First, use 2nd harmonics for tuning E6th, A5th, and G3rd, and compare to the fundamentals. Second, check E6th fretted @ 5th against A5th open, and 2nd harmonic of E6th against A5th fretted @ 7th. Repeat in same manner for A5th/D4th, and D4th/G3rd. Then check G3rd fretted @ 4th against B2nd open, and 2nd harmonic of G3rd against B2nd fretted @ 8th. Finally there's B2nd fretted @ 5th against E1st open, and 2nd harmonic of B2nd against E1st fretted @ 7th. This will tell you what to do for optimizing. Tuning the entire guitar to match the desired pitch perfectly - for me it's A4 = 440 Hz - may take some experience, but you will get it rather fast. After trying several times you may do it in much less time than it takes to read my description. I do this regularly, and I found it to be the best way to achieve "recording grade" tuning. Hope this helps. I'd be completely dishonest, if I said I understood a single word of that middle paragraph? I am going to start with a new set of strings when I get off of work tonight. The ones on it may be the originals from when it was sold new. It has a weird effect where you finger a chord, and most of the sound from the strings seems to be coming from the middle of the fretboard, rather than where you strum them. That will cut that variable out, as I am sure there is something going on in that dept. I will give more attention to that method you described when I get home, and after the strings are changed, if nothing changes. Thanks for the help so far. After reading it again, it sounds like you're describing tuning from the low E and working your way down the strings to the high E? That is perfect as far as I can tell? I tuned it by string by string with the online tuner, then again starting with the low E on down, string by string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 For which terms exactly do you want definitions or explanations? Sorry, English is my second language, so I perhaps wrote a little unclear. The modern web character @ stands for "at" here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 If the strings are old, I'd say try a new set of strings. I hate dead strings. I tend to replace strings every few months now as I don't play as much as I used to. When I was playing shows every weekend those strings would be changed every week or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 When I play a bar chord just for the three lower strings, there is a wavering sound almost like a vibrato/tremolo... Pickups are too close to the strings. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Could be (string pull). Could be sympathetic tones. Or a combination. Sounds like one of those "it's a guitar, not a keyboard" moments, to me. They're annoying all right, but a lot of the time you just have to live with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Oh yeah, forgot to add: sympathetic tones are more pronounced on guitars with a lot of sustain, like Les Pauls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 The pickups were lowered when I noticed it was sounding harsh and overdriven. They are barely sticking out of the rings now. Strings in a few hours, at least that possibility will be eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 I did notice while playing with distortion, a string I wasnt even playing, started to vibrate and produced feedback. Is that a sympathetic tone issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Yep. Perfectly normal, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 If the strings are old, I'd say try a new set of strings. I hate dead strings. I tend to replace strings every few months now as I don't play as much as I used to. When I was playing shows every weekend those strings would be changed every week or 2. I was seriously concerned about these strings being 9 years old. Just put on a set of DR Pure Blues, and it roars like a lion now. No wavering at all. It's a completely different guitar, in a good way. The unforeseen kind of way. It sounds amazing now! Now to make it sound even more amazing with some higher quality electronics. I am amazed at the harmonics these pickups can make. It makes me sound like I know what I am doing, lol. Thanks for the suggestions! I think the bridge pickup doesn't sound all that great, but then again I hate bridge pickups in general. Middle and neck I love. Bridge alone, not a big fan. I may try to mellow it out with capacitors if possible. Just maybe roll a little of the edge off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 While I was changing the strings I removed both pickups, and they appear to be stock units. I also top wrapped the strings. The strings are bendable, way more so than the SG, which is also top wrapped. The thing that struck me the most, was the way the bridge fit onto the mounting posts. It didn't "fall off" like they normally do. The tolerance from post to bridge was pretty close, and you had to pull it off to remove it. It also said Epiphone underneath, while the bridge on my SG special is the fall off variety, and says nothing underneath. The bridge on the SG may get changed, the looseness is probably one of the main killers on the amount of sound it produces, and is a sustain killer. You strike a chord on the LP, and it just keeps going, and going. LOVE that, hehe. Tonight I can get more playing time. I barely had a half hour before the wife got home last night, as the volume must go WAY down then, hehe. Going out of the way at rush hour to buy strings, and the cleaning/restringing ate up more time than I realized. No loud jamming once the lady of the house comes home, hehe. Tonight, I have no stops, and can play for an hour or two to get to know the LP a little better. Overall very happy with it so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 Well, I have come to the realization that I do not like the pickups. I mean they sound like humbuckers and all, but the high springs hurt my ears, and the low strings lack that wet transparent low tone I love on the SG with the Slasher pickups. So. I am either up for another swap like I did from the Slasher to the SG, or buy new pickups for the LP. It sounded great to me at first, because it sounded horrible before the strings, but now that I have spent a little time playing it, it's not doing it for me. I should ask though. Will changing out all of the wiring and pots help these pickups sound "that" much better? I mean aside from changing the switch, everything on the SG is stock wires, and with the Slasher pickups, it became a completely different guitar. These are the Slasher pickups, in a Slasher of course. I sure wish I could find another set of these, without having to gut another whole guitar.. This is not me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Well, I have come to the realization that I do not like the pickups. I mean they sound like humbuckers and all, but the high springs hurt my ears, and the low strings lack that wet transparent low tone I love on the SG with the Slasher pickups. ... Perhaps you either don't like Les Paul guitars, or you try playing a Les Paul with amp settings proper for an SG tone you like. Les Paul and SG are quite different beasts, and good pickups will transduce that. The tone of a Les Paul is much fatter than that of an SG. I have seven Classic '57 pickups in SGs and four Classic '57 along with two Classic '57 Pluses in LPs. The SG sounds are far apart from that of the LPs that sound much closer to those of mine with several BurstBuckers, 496R, and 498T pickups. In same sense my 1978 S-G Standard with ceramic-loaded Super Humbucking pickups designed by the late Bill Lawrence sounds close to the SGs featuring Classic '57s. It's the guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 Perhaps you either don't like Les Paul guitars, or you try playing a Les Paul with amp settings proper for an SG tone you like. Les Paul and SG are quite different beasts, and good pickups will transduce that. The tone of a Les Paul is much fatter than that of an SG. I have seven Classic '57 pickups in SGs and four Classic '57 along with two Classic '57 Pluses in LPs. The SG sounds are far apart from that of the LPs that sound much closer to those of mine with several BurstBuckers, 496R, and 498T pickups. In same sense my 1978 S-G Standard with ceramic-loaded Super Humbucking pickups designed by the late Bill Lawrence sounds close to the SGs featuring Classic '57s. It's the guitars. The problem is that the LP is not fat enough. It's actually kind of bright and happy sounding, but the three high strings are borderline painful unless you roll the tone knobs back. High pitched and harsh. The SG is twice as fat tone wise. I believe that is what the swapping the pickups from the Slasher, since they were "hot" factory pickups, did for the SG. I am theorizing that it's the combination of price point electronics, and these pickups that may sound great in another guitar. They sound okay. but it's not the fat juicy tone I am hearing from many demo videos. It's not the fat juicy tone I am hearing from the SG. The LP is lacking in the punch and warmth. It's like the two guitars are opposite of what they should be. I am extremely tempted to swap the pickups, since I know I like them already, and they have produced awesome tone for two guitars they have been installed in so far. Chances are the warm tone will be even more pronounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 Call me crazy, but I think it's improving. Either the strings are mellowing out, or the pickups are changing sound the more they are hooked up to electricity. I don't think this guitar was ever really played at all, and sat for most of the 9 years since it was originally purchased. Yeah I know the pickups "breaking in" is probably a bunch of baloney, but something is changing. I bet the strings are mellowing out from the several hours of playing and bending. It's getting close to bearable now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I really like the Probucker neck pup, maybe you should look into one of those. The bridge pup is all right I guess. I dunno - I'm not a big bridge pickup fan either for LPs. To me, they're for adding just a little extra distinction to the neck pickup ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 I really like the Probucker neck pup, maybe you should look into one of those. The bridge pup is all right I guess. I dunno - I'm not a big bridge pickup fan either for LPs. To me, they're for adding just a little extra distinction to the neck pickup ;) I know what you mean. I'd have an empty bucker cover for the bridge, but like you I mostly use it to slightly alter the neck pickup sound, haha. The bridge pickup has the most noticeable harshness on the high strings. Maybe I will swap it for a pickup I already have, and move the cover to it. It doesn't have a set of screws though. It came on a knockoff tele I bought 15-20 years ago now. It had some of the smoothest handling of distortion I'd ever heard. Or I could just buy a set of Zebras and get it over with. I think I spotted my next guitar though, as if 6 isn't enough. It's a Shecter PRS copy, with nickel humbuckers that say Duncan Designed. It's a blue flame top, and has a nicely carved body. It also has VERY nice two color neck inlays. The guy said it had been there a year, so the guy said his boss might let it go for as little as $150. After a little research, I gathered that it's a C-1 plus. It's the spitting image of this one. It's just in the wrong neighborhood I guess. http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-11482392980725/schecter-c-1plus-transparent-blue-6-string-electric-guitar-1.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguello Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 So it seems to be mellowing out even more, but I still have to roll off the tone on the bridge pickup, to keep it from making painful tones. I am thinking Pearly gates, and use my nickel covers if they'll fit. I'll even put some wax in them,and heat it up with a hair dryer when I install them. I will buy Zebra's of course, in case they don't. Also thinking coil splitting, with CTS pots, since the Pearlies seem to have the capability. It should be a hot rod when done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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