docr Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 All the best for the year 2019! One of the attached pictures shows my two Hummingbirds. The real one (2017) and a 1978 Concord HB clone - the first steel string I could buy. Besides the price there are some differences: - Concord scale length 650 mm, saw this the first time when I had both guitars next to each other in a stand for the photo - The red-yellow colour of the Concord seems to be a little overdone, even compared to HBs which are not "faded Cherry" - The Concord has an adjustable brigde, but it seems to be plastic, no ceramic - The pickguard of the Concord is still perfectly glued to the top - even after 40 years whereas the new HB wants to get rid of it But now coming to my question. The second photo shows the back of the Concord. The coating has huge dull, milky areas (+ some scratches, it was played a long time). This can been seen on the sides an the back. The surface of the lacquering is smooth and can be cleaned, no problems. So the change has happened somewhere inside the coating. Has anybody an idea what happened, which kind of lacquer was used in 1978 by Ibanez and if I could improve the optics? The good Gibson Restorative Finsish Cream does not help. It is just for interest, because I would not treat the back with an aggressive abrasive. The guitar was never in a case, but it was never stored in the direct sunlight. Thank you for your answers! Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Although not being an exert in much of anything, I would assume the Concord has a poly finish. But often the milky haze is caused by wood that has not been properly dried which is why nothing you can use is going to work to remove that which you want removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 No idea what caused the problem, but do you ever use a bug spray such as "Off"? These sprays contain DEET, and that is really bad news for lacquer finishes. I learned this the hard way recently, was playing outside and the bugs were bad, so I had sprayed my t-shirt with OFF. I did this a couple hours before I played my guitar, but it still ate into the finish on my 1965 J-50 and created some dull areas like that. Immediately after this happened, the finish felt "gummy" in the affected areas. I let it cure overnight and then used Virtuouso cleaner, which helped quite a bit, but I can still see the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I don't have much to say about the lawsuit guitars by Ibanez, only that a lacquer expert won't be of much use to you since I would assume that those cheap knockoffs have catalyzed finishes like polyurethane or polyester instead of a soft finish (lacquer, varnish, shellac-based French polish), so you are free to clean and polish them until the cows come home. They are impervious to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Were they really using polyurethane finishes on guitars in 1978? I thought that didn't come along until later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 No idea what caused the problem, but do you ever use a bug spray such as "Off"? These sprays contain DEET, and that is really bad news for lacquer finishes. I learned this the hard way recently, was playing outside and the bugs were bad, so I had sprayed my t-shirt with OFF. I did this a couple hours before I played my guitar, but it still ate into the finish on my 1965 J-50 and created some dull areas like that. Immediately after this happened, the finish felt "gummy" in the affected areas. I let it cure overnight and then used Virtuouso cleaner, which helped quite a bit, but I can still see the damage. Boyd, thank you for the hint! Even though I am living in a region with short a not very hot summers (with the exception of 2018 ...) and have no problems with bugs I will be careful using bug spray. I have never thought that a risk will come from a spray but your example is warning enough! Sorry for the J-50 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 Were they really using polyurethane finishes on guitars in 1978? I thought that didn't come along until later. I am not shure how long the modern varnish systems have been used in mass prouction. The top of the guitar maybe has another coating, looks more like nitro with nice "vintage" cracks. Needless to say I know that it is an instrument from the lawsuit area. Finally it caused me to buy a Gibson Hummingbird 38 years later as a birthday present for myself. Even if someone would have had the money, Gibson guitars could not be bought in my hometown, maybe in single stores in big cities. Internet was not existing . The only music store in my hometown did not sell steel string "Western" guitars, only classic concert guitars. So the lawsuit Instrument which I found in another store was the first opportunity to get a good looking steel string which was playable, too. And it is with the exception of the sides and back still in good condition after 40 years, no loose parts inside, the neck is still straight. But now I have the original and this gives a much better feeling playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Many Ibanez guitars from this era have developed a similar whitish haze on the body or headstock. Can’t tell you why it happens, but I’ve never heard of a fix & it’s unlikely that any simple fix is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Were they really using polyurethane finishes on guitars in 1978? I thought that didn't come along until later. Polyurethane was being used commonly in the U.S. during the 1950s. Beginning around 1963 Fender guitars had a poly finish with only a nitro top coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I am not shure how long the modern varnish systems have been used in mass prouction. I believe the last major change occurred n 1991 when the EPA caused the guitar builders to change the solvents and plasticizers they were using in the lacquer. Bottom line is what they are shooting today is not your grandfathers nitro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Were they really using polyurethane finishes on guitars in 1978? I thought that didn't come along until later. Nah, it is old tech invented in 1937 in Germany and introduced into U.S. commercial manufacturing in the 1950s. By the late 1960s Fender, among many other guitar manufacturers before and after, introduced polyurethane finishes on their instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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