Jamboss67

[Jaymee]

 So I’ve acquired an old j45 and the braces are all off and in the case. My question is it looks like the center strip on the back is missing, is it essential to have this brace?  I’ve almost got the back removed due to all the other repairs that are required to get this beauty playing again.
 

[zombywoof]

I am certainly no expert but what holds the two back pieces together is not the glue or the reinforcement strip but the transverse back braces.  And if I recall correctly there have been several Martin models which did not have that back strip.  I have, however, heard two theories about the reinforcement strip.  One is that it was there to keep the back from separating  during the installation of the back braces.   The other is that it was just added reassurance that the seam would not show as the guitar reacted to say climate changes.  

Are the back braces notched in the center?  The strip in my '42 J50 was installed in one piece with the back braces slightly notched to fit over them.  In fact, the center  strip in my guitar does not even run the entire length but stops under the second brace down from the neck block with that brace being notched on only one side.   But if your braces are not notched it would mean they were installed in sections in between the braces which is what the glue marks do make it appear was the case. 

[j45nick]

The guitar appears to be a 1947 or 1948. You can tell that by the black fabric side stays on the inside. Does it have a FON stamped on the neck block?

My first questions are not intended as an insults:

Are you a luthier, and if not, are you doing this work yourself?

If you are doing it yourself, have you done this type of work before?

This is a big job requiring someone with experience in these types of repairs, especially since the guitar has intrinsic value that can be destroyed with the wrong repairs.

From what I can see, the bridge and bridgeplate may be replacements. The bridgeplate looks oversize--the original would typically be smaller--as does the bridge, but it would take first-hand inspection to verify. The bridge should be just about 1" by 6".

If it were my guitar,  I would replace any missing braces or kerfing to match the original. Same with the centerline back seam reinforcement. The centerline back seam has very little gluing surface, and the centerline cleat helps hold things together, particularly if the seam gets local pressure.

Obviously, all the removed braces and their associated gluing surfaces on  top and back need to be clean before re-gluing. Many luthiers would take this guitar apart to do the work, since the neck may need to come off in any case.

It's a nice find, and deserves really good care.

[RBSinTo]

Jaymee,

 This instrument will need major work done to restore it structurally, and aesthetically. However, the question remains, what if anything will those repairs do to the quality of the sound it produces?

Regardless or your level of expertise, and willingness to make the necessary repairs, unless you are an experienced Luthier, I'd suggest at the very least having someone who is, examine the guitar and give you an expert opinion on what you can expect the instrument to sound like post-repair. 

Good luck with it in any case.

RBSinTo

 

[fortyearspickn]

To answer your question ...   I am not at all as well informed as the previous commenters, but the center strip is there for a reason. Just like the pick guard. You can assess the risk of removing your pick guard - but I believe the center strip is functional - not cosmetic in nature.      And, now, my question.  Again, I know next to nothing about repairing let alone restoring a 75 year old guitar.  But, my question:  What is the cause and reason for what appears to be cutting the sides down the middle?  I had always heard that repairs entailed removing the actual back piece itself. First the binding, then the kerfing .....   

[Jaymee]

Hey thanks for all your thoughts and replies. I am not a Luthier but I do have some experience in acoustic instrument repairs. That being said the guitar came to me through a friend who bought 3 guitars at a storage auction for $150. I offered him $200 for the Gibson and he was glad to take it. I feel confident that I can repair it so I was just as happy as he was. There are no serial #s or FON s that I can see. The guitar was strung when I bought it and it was actually in tune and believe it or not it sounded good, even though it needs a **** ton of work I’m willing to do it. It is a diamond in the ruff.  Any ideas how to identify her?

Edited November 1, 2020 by Jaymee
Couldn’t attach I picture I wanted

[zombywoof]

Well, we recently had a post where what appears to be an FON on a similar vintage Gibson was found inside the neck joint which none of us had ever even heard of.  Other than that the absence of an FON stamped on the neck block of a guitar with a block letter logo generally points to, as j45nick noted, a guitar which left the factory in 1947 or 1948.   As to the back strip, as I noted that on my '42 did not run the entire length of the back.  Where the seam had separated though was where the backstrip was in place.  The seam in the area which the backstrip did not extend to remained tight. 

[j45nick]

23 minutes ago, Jaymee said:

Hey thanks for all your thoughts and replies. I am not a Luthier but I do have some experience in acoustic instrument repairs. That being said the guitar came to me through a friend who bought 3 guitars at a storage auction for $150. I offered him $200 for the Gibson and he was glad to take it. I feel confident that I can repair it so I was just as happy as he was. There are no serial #s or FON s that I can see. The guitar was strung when I bought it and it was actually in tune and believe it or not it sounded good, even though it needs a **** ton of work I’m willing to do it. It is a diamond in the ruff.  Any ideas how to identify her?

The characteristics of the guitar indicate that it is a 1947 or 1948. These include the block logo, which came into use sometime during 1947, as well as the vertical black fabric side stays, which Gibson apparently stopped using sometime during 1948.

The photos aren't clear, but in the one that shows the bridge, it almost looks like the shadow of the belly of a belly-up style bridge (along the edge of the bridge closest to the soundhole). That bridge also came into use on the J-45 around 1948.

Looking again at the photos, the bridgeplate may well be original--you can see the two bolt holes for the bridge bolts--but it appears to be larger than the ones on my own J-45s from the same period.

If you have to remove the neck at some point, check inside the dovetail pocket for a number stamped inside. We recently became aware of another J-45 from exactly the same time period that had a number which appears to be a factory order number stamped inside the dovetail pocket as well as on the neck portion of the dovetail.

[E-minor7]

"Doctor, my nerves. . "

Best of luck from here

[j45nick]

Jaymee, 

Just to give you a bit of perspective:

Properly, professionally done, this guitar after the work could be a $4000 guitar.

Improperly done, it's nearly worthless.

Just keep that in mind.