Hummingbird gas and a video for starters

[E-minor7]

1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said:

The SJ200 is “King of the Flat Tops”. And The J45 is arguably the most recognized acoustic of all.  So I didn’t expect another Gibson model could be better.   I pursued the SJ200 and J45 while the H’Bird just  fell into my lap. So it got a lot less play time.  

I see - and yes, once you 'understand' the Bird it will find an undefiable but exceptional place in one's heart'n'mind. And it goes far beyond the looks. 

[differentsky]

16 hours ago, BoSoxBiker said:

Any chance it could be seller error on the scale length?

Could be. Awaiting answer from the seller.

14 hours ago, TomPhx said:

I can recommend the 1960 HBird Fixed Bridge model. I currently have one, which replaced my HBird Standard. The 1960 is much better sounding. I don't know if it's because of the thermally aged top or thin VOS finish or what, but it sounds beautiful, so much better than the Standard. Mine came to me as a used instrument so not nearly as pricey as a new one. Well worth the extra cost over any other Bird I've played. I have no experience with the TV Bird, so can't compare it to one of them. Best of luck on your search and welcome to the Forum!  

Lucky you! The 1960 seems to be very close to the Sheryl crow. Here's what I felt playing the SC, maybe you can tell me whether it rings a bell?

-Stellar strumming sound. Very well balanced. Sounds like there's no difference between open chords and barre chords. When playing an open G and a B minor, the differences in string tension etc... makes no difference.  There's that delicate, "pearly" sound of the pick on the strings.

-Ths SC still features the bluesy Gibson tone when flat picked. Especially on the low strings

-To my ears, on the SC, the typical stiff tone of a brand new guitar is only explicit when you play staccato chords, like say, reggae rhythm guitar/ or Bowie's Starman; the tone at the moment of impact with the pick is a bit quacky, or stiff sounding. A quality that shoud disappear as the guitar opens up with time. Other than that, a very warm sound. The neck invites you playing up and down, super easy to handle.

That's what I'm hoping to find in the 1960!

[BoSoxBiker]

I found several videos when I was poking around over the past couple of months, but nothing directly comparing the 1960 CS HC Hummingbird and the SC CW. I did find one that compares a HB Original and a SC CW. If you've listened to enough "Original vs 1960", you might be able to get a feeling for where the 1960 might slot within the test.   I also put two videos below it from the same company in the same room, mics,, but different players. One's with the 1960 and one's with the SC CW. Not easy in the terms of direct compare at all.

The HB Original vs SC CW compare...

And the two individual test drives

 

[differentsky]

4 minutes ago, BoSoxBiker said:

I found several videos when I was poking around over the past couple of months, but nothing directly comparing the 1960 CS HC Hummingbird and the SC CW. I did find one that compares a HB Original and a SC CW. If you've listened to enough "Original vs 1960", you might be able to get a feeling for where the 1960 might slot within the test.   I also put two videos below it from the same company in the same room, mics,, but different players. One's with the 1960 and one's with the SC CW. Not easy in the terms of direct compare at all.

The HB Original vs SC CW compare...

And the two individual test drives

 

Thanks! Oh I'd watched these videos already a couple of times! The original and the SC don't sound miles away from one another on the video. But my guess is that they must "feel" different in the flesh...  Funny they wanted to show how the Amulet pickup sounds. I think it sounds terrible on the video! It kind of kills the appeal...

More HB color ambiguity: the 1960 on the second video is now caramel. as opposed to its usual reddish-brown look.

[BoSoxBiker]

18 minutes ago, differentsky said:

Thanks! Oh I'd watched these videos already a couple of times! The original and the SC don't sound miles away from one another on the video. But my guess is that they must "feel" different in the flesh...  Funny they wanted to show how the Amulet pickup sounds. I think it sounds terrible on the video! It kind of kills the appeal...

More HB color ambiguity: the 1960 on the second video is now caramel. as opposed to its usual reddish-brown look.

 Yes, that SC CW pickup system sounds awful in that video. I can't believe Gibson isn't begging for a re-shoot. 🙂

I've still not decided one way or another if I like that brownish hue to it like that or not. My wife has, but in fairness, she likes my HB Standard and my Love Dove the best. (both bright cherry burst)

 

[differentsky]

5 minutes ago, BoSoxBiker said:

 Yes, that SC CW pickup system sounds awful in that video. I can't believe Gibson isn't begging for a re-shoot. 🙂

I've still not decided one way or another if I like that brownish hue to it like that or not. My wife has, but in fairness, she likes my HB Standard and my Love Dove the best. (both bright cherry burst)

 

Yep, me too... It's a fine line between an outrageous finish and a too polite one...

On this video I'm sure you've seen already, it's mainly red (which I like alot), or brown, depending on the lights. Somehow it feels like a high class version of a Bird (like a Bourgeois to a Martin), but beautiful anyway.

 

[groovadelic]

On 11/13/2021 at 10:02 AM, BoSoxBiker said:

Any chance it could be seller error on the scale length?

Yes - it should be 24.75. 

On 11/13/2021 at 7:46 AM, differentsky said:

Here's the link:

https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/annonce-1976583

No, that's mahogany. But there's no torrefied top and it's a long scale. I don't think it will sound close to the CS supreme but it could be very good too.  I believe this was a limited edition after they stopped making the True Vintage...

I have this guitar. Back in 2008 Gibson did a limited run along side the True Vintage model. The difference is that the limited was all hide-glue construction, the finish had a big more aged red to it, and it came with a 60s replica case + cert. The case is black/yellow and interestingly smaller than the brown/pink case they were shipping with the standard TV models or the standard cases (black/blue) at the time.  It is hard to say what it sounds close to because I can’t say any of the Gibson Hummingbirds I’ve had have sounded the same. Some can have a bit more bass and volume over others… most are consistent in the trebles and mids. You would really only know if you’ve played them. I’ve owned a 4 Hummingbirds - one 2006 and 3 TVs from 2007 and 2008. I stuck with the 2008 limited… Totally happy with what I have, but if I were to pick a favorite, it would have to be one of the TVs from 2007 (first year True Vintage). 

[differentsky]

4 minutes ago, groovadelic said:

Yes - it should be 24.75. 

I have this guitar. Back in 2008 Gibson did a limited run along side the True Vintage model. The difference is that the limited was all hide-glue construction, the finish had a big more aged red to it, and it came with a 60s replica case + cert. The case is black/yellow and interestingly smaller than the brown/pink case they were shipping with the standard TV models or the standard cases (black/blue) at the time.  It is hard to say what it sounds close to because I can’t say any of the Gibson Hummingbirds I’ve had have sounded the same. Some can have a bit more bass and volume over others… most are consistent in the trebles and mids. You would really only know if you’ve played them. I’ve owned a 4 Hummingbirds - one 2006 and 3 TVs from 2007 and 2008. I stuck with the 2008 limited… Totally happy with what I have, but if I were to pick a favorite, it would have to be one of the TVs from 2007 (first year True Vintage). 

Oh thanks for chiming in! But This HB listed in my link is from 2014, not 2008 like yours. I've found an old listing on reverb that said 25 1/2 too... This is weird. Can't double check the info anywhere. I got an answer from the shop dealer but he simply said it is true to the 1960 specs... Very useful, thank you. I don't know about the scale length of that guitar. I'm torn between riding a train for an hour and play it, or order a 1960 CS with fixed bridge I've found in a shop in Europe that still has one. Quite expensive as you know. It feels like I know this guitar, since it shares the sames specs as the Sheryl Crow, but still, buying without playing it first...

[BoSoxBiker]

As expensive as these things are, an hour train ride to try out one of your options sounds like a good thing.

The Hummingbird and the Sheryl Crow CW have different bracing. I have no personal experience comparing these two guitars with this bracing  difference. Perhaps someone who has will share their insights.

[E-minor7]

4 hours ago, BoSoxBiker said:

The Hummingbird and the Sheryl Crow CW have different bracing. I have no personal experience comparing these two guitars with this bracing  difference. Perhaps someone who has will share their insights.

A bell in the back of my brain tells that the SC is forward shifted. 

[differentsky]

Round #3:

Today I'll be playing a Hummingbird Vintage 2016 Heritage Cherry someone has for sale...! So that should be a torrefied top. Eager to see the torrefied + finish in the flesh. They sometimes look plastic-y in videos?

@BoSoxBiker, got an answer for the Limited edition True vintage vos I mentionned above, it is indeed a short scale! There was an error in the listing. So I might take that train ride tomorrow and play it.

That's two good contenders.

On the other hand, the plot thickens, as I've read that throughout the 60s, even after 1962, you can find short and long scaled HBs? Apparently it was more hectic than I thought... But finding a great HB with a short scale from that period might take a long time. I should know more by tomorrow night. As usual, I have to contain gas and keep my senses and my ears open. Patience pays off.

[BoSoxBiker]

18 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

A bell in the back of my brain tells that the SC is forward shifted. 

I think so. Advanced is what it says. I don't know if that's different from forward nor what it does to tone aside from volume/projection.

[BoSoxBiker]

5 hours ago, differentsky said:

Round #3:

Today I'll be playing a Hummingbird Vintage 2016 Heritage Cherry someone has for sale...! So that should be a torrefied top. Eager to see the torrefied + finish in the flesh. They sometimes look plastic-y in videos?

@BoSoxBiker, got an answer for the Limited edition True vintage vos I mentionned above, it is indeed a short scale! There was an error in the listing. So I might take that train ride tomorrow and play it.

That's two good contenders.

On the other hand, the plot thickens, as I've read that throughout the 60s, even after 1962, you can find short and long scaled HBs? Apparently it was more hectic than I thought... But finding a great HB with a short scale from that period might take a long time. I should know more by tomorrow night. As usual, I have to contain gas and keep my senses and my ears open. Patience pays off.

Oh wow, that is short after all. Keeps your scale lengths the same. Be careful of the verbiage of "Vintage" on the 2016. It might be a standard with the "Vintage Cherry Sunburst" color and not the actual "True Vintage(TV)" with the baked top. Mine is a 2018 Hummingbird Standard with the Vintage Cherry Sunburst(bright red sunburst) and I love it. It's not got so much of that broken in loose low end like I've heard in videos for the 1960 Fixed Bridge. Mine has a bit more chirp in it, so to speak.

[differentsky]

24 minutes ago, BoSoxBiker said:

Oh wow, that is short after all. Keeps your scale lengths the same. Be careful of the verbiage of "Vintage" on the 2016. It might be a standard with the "Vintage Cherry Sunburst" color and not the actual "True Vintage(TV)" with the baked top. Mine is a 2018 Hummingbird Standard with the Vintage Cherry Sunburst(bright red sunburst) and I love it. It's not got so much of that broken in loose low end like I've heard in videos for the 1960 Fixed Bridge. Mine has a bit more chirp in it, so to speak.

Well I'm just back from playing that 2016 vintage... The color was actually a caramel / ice tea, which is not my favorite. The guitar had a perfect set-up, played well, good neck like the CS. But It wasn't jaw-dropping good, to my ears. I had another go at the Sheryl Crow, definitely more what I like. So maybe it has to do with the bracing. I might go and check that TV tomorrow...

[TomPhx]

On 11/14/2021 at 5:57 AM, differentsky said:

Lucky you! The 1960 seems to be very close to the Sheryl crow. Here's what I felt playing the SC, maybe you can tell me whether it rings a bell?

-Stellar strumming sound. Very well balanced. Sounds like there's no difference between open chords and barre chords. When playing an open G and a B minor, the differences in string tension etc... makes no difference.  There's that delicate, "pearly" sound of the pick on the strings.

-Ths SC still features the bluesy Gibson tone when flat picked. Especially on the low strings

-To my ears, on the SC, the typical stiff tone of a brand new guitar is only explicit when you play staccato chords, like say, reggae rhythm guitar/ or Bowie's Starman; the tone at the moment of impact with the pick is a bit quacky, or stiff sounding. A quality that shoud disappear as the guitar opens up with time. Other than that, a very warm sound. The neck invites you playing up and down, super easy to handle.

That's what I'm hoping to find in the 1960!

The 1960 has a depth to the sound I haven't found on any other mahogany backed guitar. I have a hard time describing guitar sounds but here goes: Deep and resonant sounding, not like rosewood, but nice rich mahogany. Sounds wonderful strummed and with single notes picked out. It has a nice smooth playing feel, maybe due to it being my only short scale guitar at the moment.

Edited November 17, 2021 by TomPhx

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, differentsky said:

Well I'm just back from playing that 2016 vintage... The color was actually a caramel / ice tea, which is not my favorite. The guitar had a perfect set-up, played well, good neck like the CS. But It wasn't jaw-dropping good, to my ears. I had another go at the Sheryl Crow, definitely more what I like. So maybe it has to do with the bracing. I might go and check that TV tomorrow...

Keep us updated - and remember the forward shifted X (advanced bracing) will play a role, but that the guitars themselves will be pretty different anyway - not all of them though. 

 

I like the caramel, , , , and the fact that the vintage red ones bend in that direction when the sun begins to go down.                                                                                                                                                                                                     Apropos sun - have you ever seen one of the 4 guard-points catch low angle rays : It's like a hidden ruby glowing from the garden floor. . 

[BoSoxBiker]

10 hours ago, differentsky said:

Well I'm just back from playing that 2016 vintage... The color was actually a caramel / ice tea, which is not my favorite. The guitar had a perfect set-up, played well, good neck like the CS. But It wasn't jaw-dropping good, to my ears. I had another go at the Sheryl Crow, definitely more what I like. So maybe it has to do with the bracing. I might go and check that TV tomorrow...

That sounds like a good plan  to me, I'm looking forward to hearing where you land and you impressions of them comped.

[differentsky]

5 hours ago, BoSoxBiker said:

That sounds like a good plan  to me, I'm looking forward to hearing where you land and you impressions of them comped.

Well, change of plans! I called the shop before taking the train. The actual color of the finish is caramel too! Totally weird what camera lenses do to Hummingbirds! Just like the 2016 vintage I played yesterday, that looked red on the pictures, same thing for this 2014 limited edition. You can see the pic in one of previous posts here, a beautiful reddish burst, but it's actually the ice tea/caramel finish again! So that saves me the hour-long trip.

The finish/looks is super important to me, especially because I'm looking for a guitar for live use, I wanna feel good about the axe I'm wearing. So I'm out of options right now. i've tried a 1978, a 1996, and a 2016 vintage. Something was missing for me on all three. They were lacking the super smooth feel when strummed. They all had something hard to put into words; a hint of a quaky sound when played harder, as if the guitar revealed a less pleasing tone depending on how you pick. Buying the cheap 74 HB I saw listed is kind of a bargain, it could turn out to be a great strummer, but 70s HB have such a bad rep, and I can't play it first... sigh... I might end up buying a D-18! ah ah... Or lay back and wait for the next opportunity.

[BoSoxBiker]

1 hour ago, differentsky said:

Well, change of plans! I called the shop before taking the train. The actual color of the finish is caramel too! Totally weird what camera lenses do to Hummingbirds! Just like the 2016 vintage I played yesterday, that looked red on the pictures, same thing for this 2014 limited edition. You can see the pic in one of previous posts here, a beautiful reddish burst, but it's actually the ice tea/caramel finish again! So that saves me the hour-long trip.

The finish/looks is super important to me, especially because I'm looking for a guitar for live use, I wanna feel good about the axe I'm wearing. So I'm out of options right now. i've tried a 1978, a 1996, and a 2016 vintage. Something was missing for me on all three. They were lacking the super smooth feel when strummed. They all had something hard to put into words; a hint of a quaky sound when played harder, as if the guitar revealed a less pleasing tone depending on how you pick. Buying the cheap 74 HB I saw listed is kind of a bargain, it could turn out to be a great strummer, but 70s HB have such a bad rep, and I can't play it first... sigh... I might end up buying a D-18! ah ah... Or lay back and wait for the next opportunity.

I'm curious to understand the "quaky" descriptor. Do you mean to say that the sound didn't hold together when riding it a little more aggressively?

Do you think that 1960 Reissue and it's caramel color would be a lot more appealing if you got the sound/feel you were after? It might be worth it to go try that 1960 as it's been mentioned by others here as being unlike any others they've tried.  That said, you've dug the Sheryl Crow CW. but don't have it because of the lack of red flair. Obviously an important aspect. I understand the concept.

A red SJ-200?

I'm sure you do this already, but back in the day when I got to test drive, I brought a small sampling of picks with me.

[fortyearspickn]

Not to muddy the water.  The TV is less “caramel “ shaded when not torrified. More amber with gold.  I think of it as unfiltered 1960s Camels.  Don’t know if they were shooting a different shade of stain or the dried wood took to it differently.  Further, the shop guy may not have as varied a sense of color as we cork sniffers.   
If I were me, I’d take the hour train ride, factor in the fluorescent lighting and judge color after you hear it.  Make sure shop guy doesn’t slap a new set of strings on it if you do go.   And, yeah.  Bring relevant picks! 
Or stay the course, of course!  G’Luck. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by fortyearspickn

[differentsky]

1 hour ago, BoSoxBiker said:

I'm curious to understand the "quaky" descriptor. Do you mean to say that the sound didn't hold together when riding it a little more aggressively?

Do you think that 1960 Reissue and it's caramel color would be a lot more appealing if you got the sound/feel you were after? It might be worth it to go try that 1960 as it's been mentioned by others here as being unlike any others they've tried.  That said, you've dug the Sheryl Crow CW. but don't have it because of the lack of red flair. Obviously an important aspect. I understand the concept.

A red SJ-200?

I'm sure you do this already, but back in the day when I got to test drive, I brought a small sampling of picks with me.

Ah ah! yep, "quaky"... I've reached the limits of my english! I was referring to a sound similar to what you get with a Piezo pick-up when installed on an acoustic. The HBs I have played recently had like a miniature acoustic version of that "quack"... Some sort of unwanted nasal sound that sometimes pop up when moving from one chord to another. Now I know I sound like a madman now, but that's just what happens when trying to describe a sound you're hearing only during a fraction of a second... It's part of the feel you get from a guitar. The SC and other dreads I've played didn't have that characteristic.

Thank y'all for your support! (and I've learned an expression I wasn't familiar with, I'll "stay the course"!)

edit: oh, and to answer more thoroughly, yeah, color might matter less if the tone nailed it... but still... when I fall in love with an instrument it's the whole package. If I find a guitar not appealing when looking at it, well, it's a dealbreaker isn't it? It's different with other brands and models, you know what I mean? A Martin has a classic, "neutral" look. J-45s are rather consistent in their design. But the HB is very special, the initial intent was for it to be spectacular-looking, right? And the whole range of finish goes from ugly to sublime, from 1960 to 2021, for my taste at least. (I'm not partial to "red", it's just that it's my favorite iteration among the more recent HBs. But I'm having doubts now: do they only exist outside of the pictures? Maybe they're just caramel, brownish, or yellow/black sunburst?)

Edited November 18, 2021 by differentsky

[DanvillRob]

5 hours ago, differentsky said:

 

edit: oh, and to answer more thoroughly, yeah, color might matter less if the tone nailed it... but still... when I fall in love with an instrument it's the whole package. If I find a guitar not appealing when looking at it, well, it's a dealbreaker isn't it? It's different with other brands and models, you know what I mean? A Martin has a classic, "neutral" look. J-45s are rather consistent in their design. But the HB is very special, the initial intent was for it to be spectacular-looking, right? And the whole range of finish goes from ugly to sublime, from 1960 to 2021, for my taste at least. (I'm not partial to "red", it's just that it's my favorite iteration among the more recent HBs. But I'm having doubts now: do they only exist outside of the pictures? Maybe they're just caramel, brownish, or yellow/black sunburst?)

I have a couple of HB's..... one is the Golden Sunburst color, (like you, I'm not a fan of the red), and the other is a natural top.

They're both relatively 'new', 2010 and 2011 models.

I simply LOVE them!   The 2011 I bought new and it was "green" for a long time...but now it's seasoned and it truly is a joy to play!

The 2010 is simply the BEST 12-String I've ever played, (I gave my last one away  because it was like playing a Railroad Tie!).

Good luck.... the HB was my 'dream guitar' since I first played one in the mid-60's.

 

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, differentsky said:

edt: oh, and to answer more thoroughly, yeah, color might matter less if the tone nailed it... but still... when I fall in love with an instrument it's the whole package. If I find a guitar not appealing when looking at it, well, it's a dealbreaker isn't it? It's different with other brands and models, you know what I mean? A Martin has a classic, "neutral" look. J-45s are rather consistent in their design. But the HB is very special, the initial intent was for it to be spectacular-looking, right? And the whole range of finish goes from ugly to sublime, from 1960 to 2021, for my taste at least. (I'm not partial to "red", it's just that it's my favorite iteration among the more recent HBs. But I'm having doubts now: do they only exist outside of the pictures? Maybe they're just caramel, brownish, or yellow/black sunburst?)

Good differentsky - you have obviously caught the Birdflu and there is a chance you will glide further into a state of what laypeople would call craziness.

We here on the Board however are able to understand and see you through the labyrinth of frustration, confusion, joy and excitement ahead and I for 1 will personally be available as guide if needed. Totally lost in the realm of Birds'n'bursts for years, now well recovered as I am.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You must realize it can get very serious. Fx is there a member here, who when finally got the right True Vintage home, began spending his entire time giggling while looking at it.                                                       This happened in his office every day for weeks and weeks, , , months around 2014 and only in 16-17 or something like that was he able to calm down. 

                                                                                                                So prepare yourself  -  a new era is entered - may it continue well 

[BoSoxBiker]

My Bird is "just" a standard. The Dove next to it is the baked top Love Dove. If the new 1960's fixed bridge HB's were red like mine, I'd have two that one and my Standard. I understand your frustration.

Kind of a weird hue below, but it's red cherry burst. I like the back on the HB much better.

 

[DanvillRob]

1 hour ago, BoSoxBiker said:

My Bird is "just" a standard. The Dove next to it is the baked top Love Dove. If the new 1960's fixed bridge HB's were red like mine, I'd have two that one and my Standard. I understand your frustration.

Kind of a weird hue below, but it's red cherry burst. I like the back on the HB much better.

 

That's some serious beauty there!