differentsky Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Hey there, After looking at Casinos, I think I'm gonna look for a 330 instead. Since that model is not part of the regular catalog, there's only been reissues, limited runs, CS or not, Memphis or not, etc... It's very confusing and time consuming. Could you guys help me out and decipher this for me please? What are the most noteworthy examples that were released over the last 20 years? Any issues I should be aware of? Have you heard of any plans from Gibson to release a new one in 2024? Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 There's a 2017 Memphis 330 at a local store, cherry red, bigsby. It sounds great, but I'm always like this: since I don't have tons of examples to try, I'm always wondering it there's something I would like more out there... The neck on the USA Casino feels a bit better for me (but the one on the 330 is pretty comfortable), but that 330's tone is more balanced from the get go. Any opinions on these 2017s ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 Really? Has this been debated to death already on the forum? For a non-specialist, the catalog is very confusing; Memphis, or VOS, or Custom shop, or year-reissues vs global reissues... What am I lookin' at with a "regular" Memphis 330? Is the VOS much better? Is the recent USA Casino just as serious a build as a Memphis from 2017? Thanks for your help navigating through this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 I'm not sure what you mean by "non-specialist". Everyone here is a "non-specialist" and has to do the very same research that you do. You are right, there aren't very many 330s to be found, fewer American Casinos. But that number is the same for everyone, not just you. There probably just aren't that many 330 fans here, they aren't really yakked up much. Good luck with your search, GibsonWorld can be a tough hike with no map. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, rct said: I'm not sure what you mean by "non-specialist". Everyone here is a "non-specialist" and has to do the very same research that you do. You are right, there aren't very many 330s to be found, fewer American Casinos. But that number is the same for everyone, not just you. There probably just aren't that many 330 fans here, they aren't really yakked up much. Good luck with your search, GibsonWorld can be a tough hike with no map. rct Thanks! What I mean is that I've been a Fender guy forever. I'd be able to answer a lot of questions about Fenders. But when it comes to Gibson, I'm lost, simply because I haven't been scrutinizing all models for the last 20 years, and I have to catch up. Last week I was even wondering if "Memphis" was a special label, like "standard", then "memphis", then "custom shop", until I came to realize that it was just standard production. See where I'm coming from ? 😉 About Fenders, there are a few consensus about some series that stand out, like the Avri from 2012 to 2017. Why would they be better than the current AV2, I don't know, but they've been getting a huge praise. So I'm wondering if there was such consensus about all the 330s RI... I've seen there were limited runs, like the 59 and the 64, and the VOS starting in 2018, but also the Memphis series (non-VOS, non-custom shop) from the 2010s... That Memphis label is very confusing when you don't know much about Gibson, because it is featured everywhere (memphis, Memphis VOS, Memphis CS), and since marketing is always telling you "that guitar is the real deal", you're just lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 The 'Casino vs 330' debate is long-running and on several forums - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=epi+casino+vs+gibson+330 Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, jdgm said: The 'Casino vs 330' debate is long-running and on several forums - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=epi+casino+vs+gibson+330 Good luck! Thanks. Yeah I've been reading all that over the last few weeks. But the Casino USA hasn't been there long enough and the 330 has known many reissues, and YT videos, well, usually made by people who don't want to alienate Epi fans or Gibson fans so... It's helpful of course, but only to a certain extent. Still hoping that someone on the forum can provide a quicker overview... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 hour ago, differentsky said: About Fenders, there are a few consensus about some series that stand out... Always put forth by people that just happen to own one or three or 5 of that series.  I've been using Fenders since 1971, there are good and bad in every era, every series, and every country of origin. Same goes for Gibson. Trying to determine which era is better than all the rest will only lead you to people who happen to own one of the ones from the era they say is the best. You can only go and play them and determine their suitability for your uses yourself. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, rct said: Always put forth by people that just happen to own one or three or 5 of that series.  I've been using Fenders since 1971, there are good and bad in every era, every series, and every country of origin. Same goes for Gibson. Trying to determine which era is better than all the rest will only lead you to people who happen to own one of the ones from the era they say is the best. You can only go and play them and determine their suitability for your uses yourself. rct Thanks, but I'd rather not take that tangent... 😉 I'm only trying to understand more what I'm looking at here: a es 330 Memphis from 2017. If I look it up on Reverb, they all have a different designation (VOS, or historic, etc...) It is very hard to identify the exact model, so as to find the specs on line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 It is really hard to see past the sales bluster for sure. You might try a thoughtfully worded email to Gibson customer service or whatever they are calling it these days might get you some clarity, and it might not. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 I’d suggest a USA Made Casino, Elitist, or Limited Edition John Lennon Casino. But if you are so set on an ES-330, I suggest my old 2009 Custom Shop Gibson ES-330L (Beale Street Blue). I consigned this one many moons ago and regret doing that to this day.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 4, 2023 Author Share Posted December 4, 2023 11 hours ago, Hype said: I’d suggest a USA Made Casino, Elitist, or Limited Edition John Lennon Casino. But if you are so set on an ES-330, I suggest my old 2009 Custom Shop Gibson ES-330L (Beale Street Blue). I consigned this one many moons ago and regret doing that to this day.  Thanks. I wouldn't mind a special color indeed. But part of the appeal for me is the short neck. It brings a different mindset and it feels like everything is within reach super easily. I haven't ruled out the Casino yet. I'll go and play both the Casino and 2017 330 this week and compare. I'd like to know what pickups are in this 330, but since I can't identify the specific model and find the specs anywhere I'm at a loss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, differentsky said: Thanks. I wouldn't mind a special color indeed. But part of the appeal for me is the short neck. It brings a different mindset and it feels like everything is within reach super easily. I haven't ruled out the Casino yet. I'll go and play both the Casino and 2017 330 this week and compare. I'd like to know what pickups are in this 330, but since I can't identify the specific model and find the specs anywhere I'm at a loss here. It came with Gibson P-90 dogears…. What’s your price point? I have a friend who has this, lollar P-90’s: https://heritageguitars.com/pages/h-530 Edited December 4, 2023 by Hype Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 17 hours ago, Hype said: It came with Gibson P-90 dogears…. What’s your price point? I have a friend who has this, lollar P-90’s: https://heritageguitars.com/pages/h-530 Thanks for your help! I'm the kind of guy who when set on Casino/330 is gonna have a hard time looking at something else... You probably know the feeling, you buy something, and then keep thinking about your intial gas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 Back from the store where I played that 2017 330 again. The main salesman wasn't there, and his guy wasn't sure about the exact model, VOS or Murphy lab. The price tag of 4.4 k (remember in Europe we face higher prices) indicates that it's not a standard production model, so it must be some higher end model. The finish is not relic'ed, the cherry red might be aged darker. The label inside only says Memphis 2017. That guitar sounds great, plays great, except for the high E string that slid off a few times in 10 minutes... The Bigsby felt good and the guitar stayed in tune so the set-up looks very good. I A/B'ed it againt the USA Casino they have (not the first one that blew my mind, it's in another store). The Casino's neck felt better to me, a bit thicker. But that guitar could benefit from a better set-up, there's a big volume drop once you reach the bridge pup. And overall the pickups lacked brightness compared to the Gibson. Tomorrow I'll go check that other Casino (sunburst), see if it wows me again. The 330 is great but I'm not sure about cherry red, and the price tag is above my price point, and I would have to take care of that string spacing... I guess I don't have many options, it's either the sunburst casino, or waiting for an hypothetical release of a 330 in 2024... Would anyone know what kind of p90s were used for VOS/Murphy labs around 2017/18? That could be helpful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 7 hours ago, differentsky said: Back from the store where I played that 2017 330 again. The main salesman wasn't there, and his guy wasn't sure about the exact model, VOS or Murphy lab. The price tag of 4.4 k (remember in Europe we face higher prices) indicates that it's not a standard production model, so it must be some higher end model. The finish is not relic'ed, the cherry red might be aged darker. The label inside only says Memphis 2017. That guitar sounds great, plays great, except for the high E string that slid off a few times in 10 minutes... The Bigsby felt good and the guitar stayed in tune so the set-up looks very good. I A/B'ed it againt the USA Casino they have (not the first one that blew my mind, it's in another store). The Casino's neck felt better to me, a bit thicker. But that guitar could benefit from a better set-up, there's a big volume drop once you reach the bridge pup. And overall the pickups lacked brightness compared to the Gibson. Tomorrow I'll go check that other Casino (sunburst), see if it wows me again. The 330 is great but I'm not sure about cherry red, and the price tag is above my price point, and I would have to take care of that string spacing... I guess I don't have many options, it's either the sunburst casino, or waiting for an hypothetical release of a 330 in 2024... Would anyone know what kind of p90s were used for VOS/Murphy labs around 2017/18? That could be helpful... Dude, a pic may help narrow the 2017 330 specs… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 8 hours ago, Hype said: Dude, a pic may help narrow the 2017 330 specs…   Here's the only pic... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 8 hours ago, differentsky said:   Here's the only pic... Thanks! OK, based on what I’m seeing have a couple more questions: 1) Find out if it is a Custom Shop. Check the back of the headstock near the nut to find out if there is a Custom Shop decal. 2) If there is a decal, perhaps Gibson did a 1962 ES-330 reissue. If not, then I suspect that the Bigsby B7 was added on by one of the previous owners. From what I’ve seen 2017 had 2 types of Casinos in Cherry Red, one with dot inlays and a Bigsby B7, and another with Parallelogram inlays and the traditional trapeze tailpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Hype said: OK, based on what I’m seeing have a couple more questions: 1) Find out if it is a Custom Shop. Check the back of the headstock near the nut to find out if there is a Custom Shop decal. 2) If there is a decal, perhaps Gibson did a 1962 ES-330 reissue. If not, then I suspect that the Bigsby B7 was added on by one of the previous owners. From what I’ve seen 2017 had 2 types of Casinos in Cherry Red, one with dot inlays and a Bigsby B7, and another with Parallelogram inlays and the traditional trapeze tailpiece. 1) No CS logo on the headstock 2) The picture you're looking at is a Gisbson es 330, not a Casino! (my post was maybe confusing) I thought it could be a 59 or 61 reissue, but they both featured black p90s.... That one has nickel covers, a "vibramate" bigsby... Maybe all this isn't stock. That guitar is a mystery, I can't find another one like this one on the web, from 2017 or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 8 hours ago, differentsky said: 1) No CS logo on the headstock 2) The picture you're looking at is a Gisbson es 330, not a Casino! (my post was maybe confusing) I thought it could be a 59 or 61 reissue, but they both featured black p90s.... That one has nickel covers, a "vibramate" bigsby... Maybe all this isn't stock. That guitar is a mystery, I can't find another one like this one on the web, from 2017 or so... I never said it was a Casino. It’s definitely a 330. I think the Bigsby B7 was added on and it didn’t ship from the factory like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Hype said: I never said it was a Casino. It’s definitely a 330. I think the Bigsby B7 was added on and it didn’t ship from the factory like that. The pickups might have been swapped too... However they're a perfect fit for that guitar so I don't know. The bridge pickup is close enough to the strings so both pickups are very well balanced. They have slightly less mids than the Casino ones, and the 330 has more of a rock sound, when the Casino features more of that acoustic, airy tone. I played the sunburst Casino for half an hour yesterday. God, that neck is so great... So effortless and inspiring. But the guitar also had that volume drop on the bridge pickup. The pickup is pretty far from the strings, to the extent that I don't know if raising the poles would be efficient. I was very close to buying it, but the 330's tone was there at the back of my mind... Punchier, and less "acoustic" like. It's really difficult to narrow it down to what's the best guitar for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 That 330 really looks like the 330 VOS dark cherry that was released in 2018... That's the only similar model one can find on line. But the label inside says 2017. Could it be that they put these stickers inside when they built the guitar, and the guitars were released a few months later, in 2018? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10PoundLester Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 4 hours ago, differentsky said:  . . . Could it be that they put these stickers inside when they built the guitar, and the guitars were released a few months later, in 2018? Absolutely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentsky Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 18 hours ago, 10PoundLester said: Absolutely. Thanks. That makes sense. That guitar really looks like the 2018 VOS cherry reds I've seen on line. (+ an added Bigsby). I believe they have a very good rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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