niemepet Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Soon is the first year birthday for "GOR upgrade announcement"... Anyone heard anything about it? Is there gonna be more tunings? When it will be in the stores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I wonder if Tronical can help here a tall? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaushouz Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I contacted them their reply was "its all up to Gibson" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argutus Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hey all, Ok, I called Gibson today (Monday 26th Oct) about upgrading the GOR. Roger sent me an E-mail. Here's what he wrote: "I am told they are able to do the Darkfire upgrade now. We will need to set up a return authorization to bring your guitar in for the upgrade. " I actually thought you could buy the kit. And do the upgrade yourself. He didn't mention what the upgrade included but I'm guessing it's just the smaller tuners. I was hoping it would also be the longer life battery. As for how much it would cost... He didn't say. I'll try to find that out. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embrionic Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I received this response to my query from Tronical, does not bode well for the GOR upgrade, unless their was a mis-commucniation. I asked if it would be possible to upgrade the GOR to Dark Fire Tuner Type. Maybe Tronical can clarify here. From Tronical... " we are sorry to say that such an upgrade is not possible because the Robot 1 has DC engines and the Dark Fire has got stepper engines." Best regards Stephanie Meins Tronical GmbH Alsterdorfer Str. 50b D-22299 Hamburg – Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argutus Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 From Tronical... " we are sorry to say that such an upgrade is not possible because the Robot 1 has DC engines and the Dark Fire has got stepper engines." If that statement is true there would be no way to upgrade the GOR at all. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tronical.member Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Re: " ..we are sorry to say that such an upgrade is not possible because the Robot 1 has DC engines and the Dark Fire has got stepper engines..." This was an email reply by Tronical on the question, whether only the RoboHeads should be changed to meet Dark Fire specs. The DF RoboHeads are not compatible to GOR hardware. An upgrade is certainly possible. It requires a complete exchange of all Robotic and electronic hardware. Tronical You play. We tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argutus Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 "This was an email reply by Tronical on the question, whether only the RoboHeads should be changed to meet Dark Fire specs. The DF RoboHeads are not compatible to GOR hardware. An upgrade is certainly possible. It requires a complete exchange of all Robotic and electronic hardware. Tronical You play. We tune." Thanks Tronical for the quick answer. I wonder if the cost of such an upgrade ("a complete exchange of all Robotic and electronic hardware") is worth it. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBB Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I can't imagine it would be cheap. I for one, am a little put off and a lot pissed by this statement. Originally, it was stated that upgrades would be offered. If that's not possible then Tronical should remake tuner drive motors that can be put in place of our GOR slow tuners to at least give us the faster, smaller tuners. After all, we were the first to take a gamble on the Tronical system and shouldn't be short changed because of this. They could have kept us in mind and made the new tuners smaller, but have the same hole pattern so we could install them without butchering our GOR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argutus Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 NEWS FLASH!!! I spoke with several Gibson people today. A Customer service rep, a Gibson restoration & repair person and a person from the office of Mr. Henry Juszkiewicz. The restoration & repair part of Gibson is where they do the darkfire stuff. There seems to be some confusion about an upgrade. The customer service guy did not know. The person from the office of Mr. Henry Juszkiewicz was looking into it. I was told by the R&R guy the an upgrade was not possible because to change to the new smaller tuners you need to also change to the dark fire pots which are longer and won't fit in an SG robot which I own. I'm not sure about a LP Robot or an FV robot. I still find this puzzeling? So if the people at Tronical read this. Please clear this up. Question: Is it true that People who own a SG GOR will never be able to upgrade to the faster smaller tuners because the pots have to be darkfire pots and there too long to fit in a SG body cavity??? And can the people that own a LP GOR or a FV GOR get the tuner upgrade?? I think this question must be addressed. We need to know what's going on here. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tronical.member Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Re: News Flash The new and faster RoboHead tuners are completely different from GOR tuners. They need a different contacting PCB and CPU on the headstock along with the new CPU in the body and the battery. Simply exchanging the RoboHeads wont work!! Again, all hardware parts would need to be changed for an upgrade, including all pots, the Jack plate, the contacting PCB and CPU, Body electronics, the Battery, the RoboHeads and so on... As for the SG its true that the longer threaded Les Paul pots wont fit in the cavity. Besides this, as far as I know (not sure though), the upgrade was supposed to be offered for the First Run Limited Edition customers only. At the end you have to ask Gibson. Tronical You play. We tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niemepet Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 the upgrade was supposed to be offered for the First Run Limited Edition customers only. You are quick to answer. I was just about to write that' date=' "I thought upgrade was 1st Run Robot only". And I remember it was because 1st Run owners "invest money" to this new technology, so we get a special offer from Gibson. Nothing is free, so that's why it is OFFER to upgrade. In the begin I thought that upgrade [b']isn't[/b] cheap. But it has to be something VALUABLE, because we put more money to upgrade - for example more tunings. I think it's not valuable enough, if it is only that the tuners are few seconds faster. But anyway, I'm waiting upgrade information with good feelings. If the upgrade isn't my cup of tea (=only faster tuning), I'm still happy, because I'm very pleased to my 1st Run Robot. Thank you Tronical!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embrionic Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Just a further clarification, my question was indeed regarding changing the tuning heads to the newer type and Tronical was both very fast and informative to reply (thank you Tronical) albeit probably not the answer we wanted to hear, especially the SG Robot owners :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Dear Tronical Thanks for all your input. Will a replacement kit, not an upgrade kit be available soon? My Robot works fine and dandy, but it wont forever, so I am thinking ahead Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tronical.member Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Sear, I think this can only be answered by Gibson. The replacement will be the upgrade, all other would make no sense. Its true though, 18 tuning presets, all good for storing customized tunings + 1 standard tuning, along with calibration, intonation and reference tuning features, smaller and much faster RoboHeads AND the chameleon package as an add on... that would be really an upgrade!! This is reasonable to put more money in! Again, the decision is up to Gibson. Tronical You play. We tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embrionic Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Dear Tronical, it has been stated above here on this forum that the darkfire system - if ever offered as an upgrade by Gibson (at least the tuning system, not chameleon sound) to GOR owners - simply will not physically fit in the SG Robot body. Can you provide some further info on this? What is the tolerance/clearance for the darkfire electronics. Is it a matter of a "really close" that it might work with some minor routing of the body cavity on an SG? Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niemepet Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Thousand thanks Tronical to clarify this. This is a very good news to me. I guessed it's Gibson's decision in a "last mile", but I'm ready to put money in! That package is worth of it!!! I believe and hope the Gibson's decision is right. Let's wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Cheers Tronical Please call me Matt my new amigoxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsav Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Re: News Flash The new and faster RoboHead tuners are completely different from GOR tuners. They need a different contacting PCB and CPU on the headstock along with the new CPU in the body and the battery. Simply exchanging the RoboHeads wont work!! Again' date=' all hardware parts would need to be changed for an upgrade, including all pots, the Jack plate, the contacting PCB and CPU, Body electronics, the Battery, the RoboHeads and so on... As for the SG its true that the longer threaded Les Paul pots wont fit in the cavity. Besides this, as far as I know (not sure though), the upgrade was supposed to be offered for the First Run Limited Edition customers only. At the end you have to ask Gibson. Tronical You play. We tune. [/quote'] It sounds like this "upgrade" would be like a whole new system! As far as I understand Tronical started out selling the PowerTune as a "modular system that could be retrofitted without the need for destructive rebuilding or re-working". Then Gibson bought the exclusive rights in 2007 and the press anouncements at that time said that Gibson would continue to sell it as a retrofit kit as well as make some guitars with it fitted. Then came the Robot models and then Dark Fire, but we still have not seen the retrofit kit up for sale from Gibson. I guess my point is that the stand alone kit for any Les Paul would not be very different to a Les Paul Robot upgrade kit and I would love to buy one to retrofit to my Les Paul Custom. Let's hope we see this available soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tronical.member Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Re: "It sounds like this upgrade would be like a whole new system!" Thats correct, its a whole new system. Its also correct that it has always been a "rule" for Tronical to design a modular system that could be retrofitted without the need for destructive rebuilding or re-working. If for some reason there is the need to remove the system and put in regular hardware to get a "regular" guitar, it would be possible. The Original Robot System was designed to fit different models like LP, SG, FV , Explorer and so on... The Dark Fire is a complete new design for Les Paul models only. For example, the electronic cavity of the SG models is way less deep than the LP cavity. Also, the Toggle switch is located in this cavity, too. The new design of the Dark Fire System does not fit for SG. It may be possible by moving the toggle to the LP toggle position, and by using short threaded pots... Very likely that there are other points which I am not aware of at the moment! All of this requires major routing work... I would call that "destructive". Tronical You play. We tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsav Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks for the info. It is great to hear direct from the technology specialists. So, I understand that the new Dark Fire technology will not fit other guitars, but could it be retrofitted to a Robot Les Paul, or other Les Paul models without getting out the woodworking tools? For example: are the bridge pin spacings of the Piezo bridge the same as the old Les Paul bridge? Is the cavity big enough for the battery and PCB? Would Tronical be allowed to sell a generic Les Paul Upgrade kit with all the necessary parts, or would it be up to Gibson to decide to bring this to market? I'm sure that a lot of Les Paul owners would be very interested in a retrofit Les Paul Dark Fire upgrade kit. I'll be first in line with a fist full of money (or at least a very abused credit card)! If Gibson would sell Dark Fire spares parts, then I guess we could just order individual bits, but a kit would be easier and probably cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tronical.member Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Timsav, Re: Dark Fire Upgrade Kits 1) The new Dark Fire technology will fit in virtually any LES Paul style guitar, if the basic design parameters and reference values are at least similar. Crucial points are: - headstock drill pattern - electronic cavity dimensions (depth!!) - toggle switch position - bridge and tailpiece stud spacings - Jack Plate routing 2) It would also be possible to have an Upgrade Kit to Dark Fire´s tuning specs only (no Chameleon Technology!!). Therefore the cavity dimensions and the toggle switch position would not be a deal breaker, even SG, Explorer and FV models would be possible by using adapted headstock Contacting PCBs, like the different GOR models used to have. Also, Bridge and tail stud spacings are the same and would fit. Finally I want to point out that all Tronical technology is exclusive to Gibson. However, its up to Gibson to bring an Upgrade Kit to market, we will see.... Tronical You play. We tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embrionic Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 It would also be possible to have an Upgrade Kit to Dark Fire´s tuning specs only (no Chameleon Technology!!).Therefore the cavity dimensions and the toggle switch position would not be a deal breaker' date=' even SG, Explorer and FV models would be possible b[/quote'] thank you tronical for this bit of encouraging news. I realize it is ultimately up to gibson, but I am more of an SG player then Les Paul, and I like my SG standard Silverburst Robot lots. But then again perhaps a retrofit on my 72 LP goldtop deluxe might be kind of cool too. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsav Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Finally I want to point out that all Tronical technology is exclusive to Gibson. However' date=' its up to Gibson to bring an Upgrade Kit to market, we will see.... [/quote'] Maybe you could talk to the Gibson marketing guys? In the meantime we will just have to wait (or buy a Dark Fire!) Thanks again for the info. It's just incredible what you have got to work. You guys are amazing! Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argutus Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 From Tronical: "It would also be possible to have an Upgrade Kit to Dark Fire´s tuning specs only (no Chameleon Technology!!). Therefore the cavity dimensions and the toggle switch position would not be a deal breaker, even SG, Explorer and FV models would be possible by using adapted headstock Contacting PCBs, like the different GOR models used to have. Also, Bridge and tail stud spacings are the same and would fit." Ok now I'm really confused. Tronical please tell me? What exactly can my Robot SG be upgraded with???? I thought the body cavity is too shallow in the SG. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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