A few Questions about the history of the True Vintage series

[lbvllac]

First of all, hello everybody. I'm glad I have the opportunity to be on the Gibson forums as it seems to be a fine place to exchange thoughts and info about our favorite guitars.

 

I'm the owner of an SJ200 TV 2007. The first time I ever saw a J200 was when I was a kid and I'd been dreaming of having one ever since. I've just turned 46 and here I am with the guitar of my childhood dreams.

I made up my mind on the 2007 TV because it had the exact specifications of those produced between 1955 and 1959 if I remember the dates well, and after playing a few 200s finally found the one I'd been wanting for so many years.

 

Well, here are my questions: I'd like to know a bit more about the history of the TVs.

 

-When did Gibson start out the True Vintage series?

 

-How many have been made per year since the beginning?

 

-What were the different series issued? Are they all numbered limited runs? Do they all share the same specs?

 

I searched the forums but couldn't find all the answers so excuse me if this has already been discussed here...

[BigKahune]

Here's a little light reading, if you haven't already seen them:

 

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/GearAndInstruments/True%20Vintage%20and%20Modern%20Classi/

 

http://www.12fret.com/new/Gibson_True_Vintage_J-45_SJ-200_Hummingbird_pg.html

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document/gibson/true_vintage_and_modern_classic?doc_id=102646

 

Sorry I can't be more help. Oh, I've got a J-200 MC - love it.

[Johnt]

Firstly lbvllac , Welcome

 

Secondly thank you for sparing my blushes and asking questions about something close to my mind at the moment.

(been here so long I have a feeling that I was meant to know!)

 

Thanks also BigK for theMF article, it's quite informative in a general way.

 

Still doesn't answer why I've tried 6 x SJ200 TV and haven't found "the one" yet.

 

(found a lovely blonde but was looking for a brunette........... my life has always worked the other way round)

[jgwoods]

I wouldn't expect Gibson to make new guitars with "exact specifications" of older ones. There's too many variations to be exact. What I would expect from a TV, and I have a J-185 TV, is upgraded woods, period touches like the Kluson green knob tuners, a fancy case, and general decor like the old ones- like Maltese Crosses on the J-185 bridge when they leave them off the Modern Classic line.

[larryp58]

I have to say, without a doubt, my Southern Jumbo is the finest acoustic guitar I've ever played. It has "the" sound and tone I was looking for. Well worth the extra bucks! All I have is good things to say about the TV line!!!

[Rambler]

Don t" expect Gibson to make new guitars with "exact specifications" of older ones. Too many variation. ..expect upgraded woods' date=' period touches, a fancy case, and decor [/quote']

 

In a nutshell, JG. In a nutshell. Probably the closest thing out there to a period piece in a flattop would be the Martin Authentics, tho their GEs and Gibson's Legends are good modern reinterpretations.

 

Might be worth pointing out that all aspects of vintage (neck profiles, for instance) arent going to be to everyone's taste or playing style.

[rar]

-When did Gibson start out the True Vintage series?

 

The terms "True Vintage" and "Modern Classic" were introduced sometime in 2006' date=' IIRC. It wasn't clear then what the differences between the "old" Historic Collection models and the "new" True Vintage models were, as the published specs appeared to be the same. It turns out that there had been some fine tuning of some of the models (e.g., the J-45 and Southern Jumbo were switched to forward-shifted AJ-style top bracing), but the differences weren't really any more significant than other minor tweaks that had been made in the Historic Collection era. But when the TVs stared showing up in shops, it turned out that, to most of us, they generally sounded better than the MCs and the old HCs. (There is, IMHO, a general lesson here about the value of specs -- specs are so far from telling the whole story that they're almost useless in practice.)

 

-How many have been made per year since the beginning?

 

It's likely that no one knows the answer to this. There's no exact answer, anyway. (Something like a natural-topped J-45 built to TV specs would definitely qualify as a TV, but a more exotic finish would probably make it a custom. A J-45 TV with an Adi top still qualifies as a TV, but what about a Hog top? Is a maple J-45 built to TV specs still a TV? Where the line gets drawn is arbitrary and probably not entirely consistent.)

 

- Are they all numbered limited runs?

 

No' date=' numbered limited runs are the exception.

 

- Do they all have the same specs?

 

No. There's Sitka-topped vs Adi-topped for starters. Generally, specs on all Gibsons are subject to change without notice, and they do change some.

 

Hope this helps! If it just confuses things, there's a expression you'll become familiar with if you hang around here: "That's Gibson for ya!"

 

-- Bob R

[lbvllac]

Bigkahune, thanks a lot for the links, very helpful. I'd found a few myself, but none about the exact history of the TV series and the exact numbers and variations of those that have been issued so far.

I've tried a few MCs myself that had wonderful tone.

 

Johnt , my pleasure. As you can tell from my avatar pic that features my own guitar, I was looking for a blonde. I'd tried a few 200s over the years but had been waiting for the "one"till very recently. They were all great instruments of course but I noticed variations in tone apart from their common characteristics. I tried a couple of brunettes, the former an early 90s model at a friend's some fifteen years ago and the latter a brand new one at a store last year. I found out they both shared the same softness in sound and pleasant balance in frequencies. while sounding smaller and a bit more compressed than what I expected. I also tried a few MCs last year that had very impressive powerful ringing tone. These were wonderfully singing instruments. By comparison, I then tried a couple of Adi-topped TVs that seemed to offer a drier sound and told myself they'd probably have to be played a bit more before they could reveal their true qualities. Eventually, I found mine last month and have been in heaven till then. I hope you find your brunette soon.

 

LarryP, I'm sure your TV must be a fantastic instrument. Glad we share the same feelings about TVs.

 

jgwoods/jkinamma, thanks for the info. I picked up my 200 because of its "vintage" specs and also because it featured those touches in the decor I liked, such as the post-1955 red pickguard with the larger flowers and without the outer painted line on its edges as well as the four-bar inlaid open moustache bridge, Kluson tuners, orange label among others...I've liked those features ever since I first saw the older J-200s played by the greats back in the 50s and 60s.

 

Bob: thanks a lot for all the great pieces of info. I think those variations in specs are also part of the legend and one of the reasons why we're all interested in more than one guitar of the same model . There are without a doubt other 200s with even slightly different specs I'd like to have and enjoy. And...I couldn't agree more about the fact that the sound and the music are the most important of all specs, and God knows those instruments are great!!!

[torca]

I am a firm believer that the True Vintage and VOS series are consistently the best that Montana has made so far,period IMO.And I mean from 89' on.Played a few and decided that I 'd pursue an nice 200,but found a wonderful J-185 first,a model I always wanted to love but never found the "one".Well I did with a sunburst TV 185, sounds like a more focused,punchier 200, not smaller or harsher or constrained as the previous 185's I'd owned. It is a boomer if you need it to be and every nuance lesser when needed. I just picked up a J-200 TV VOS at Christmas,trading in a real nice 03' J-200 on it . Light as get out and a different projection than it's counterpart, but it has a red spruce top so I suspect I need to play it for awhile until its' true colours show. What I like are the things I always felt Gib Montana were missing,mainly lighter bracing patterns,especially on the back, and what seems to be thinner nitro finishes. I will say that both guitars were not defect free in the "Quality" department,to the point if I could have found a comparable boomer to the 185 I would have pushed for replacement,but I'll let that lie.I do firmly believe that the TV series will be looked upon as the best Montana made Gibson's down the road,barring custom shops and one offs,and have/had decided to sell off my previous guitars and replace with the TV's , if I found what I was looking for sound wise,and I did.Within that statement is a desire to stop the GAS cycle and realize that it was costing me alot of money constantly looking for the "next" one, and I feel the TV series after initial outlay, addresses what I felt Gibson always was missing in their guitars,when compared to the past great Gibsons'. Basically buying them now new,with the joy of playing yourself and forgoing,to the greatest degree, hidden or not issues. To each his own of course, as in my mind any Gibson is what I'd choose over the competition, I don't look everywhere for a guitar, start with Gibson and go from there. Foolhardy and wilfully ignorant to other great guitar options I guess, but a Gibson is what it is,and that's enough for me.

Best to all in the New Year

[lbvllac]

I am a firm believer that the True Vintage and VOS series are consistently the best that Montana has made so far' date='period IMO.And I mean from 89' on.

 

I feel the TV series after initial outlay, addresses what I felt Gibson always was missing in their guitars,when compared to the past great Gibsons'. Basically buying them now new,with the joy of playing yourself and forgoing,to the greatest degree, hidden or not issues.

 

Best to all in the New Year[/quote']

 

Happy New Year to all.

Thanks for your answer, Torca. I think I agree with you. The TVs have that special feel I was looking for. I'm glad I have found an unplayed 2007 model as it was the one I wanted for it has all the inner qualities and specs you mentioned. I also like the the Adi top, fat neck, and the fact that its looks refers to 1955-1959 era ( open moustache, four bar inlays on the bridge, red pickguard with larger flowers and no outer line, orange label, Kluson tuners...). Only the back of the head isn't black anymore compared to the 50's models. I also found the 2007 TVs to have a color in the finish that differs from some other series. Needless to say I like the different versions of the 200...

 

 

 

The terms "True Vintage" and "Modern Classic" were introduced sometime in 2006' date=' IIRC. It wasn't clear then what the differences between the "old" Historic Collection models and the "new" True Vintage models were, as the published specs appeared to be the same.[/quote']

 

 

Bob, thanks again for the precious info. May I ask then when did Gibson start the historic collection?

Too bad we haven't got the figures, I'd really like to know how many 200s HC and TV were made year after year.

 

Thanks again to all.