Django Scales

[deepblue]

Can anyone suggest a scale or scales that would would put

me in the Django Reinhardt range?

I really enjoy the Gypsy Jazz.

[DanvillRob]

Can anyone suggest a scale or scales that would would put

me in the Django Reinhardt range?

I really enjoy the Gypsy Jazz.

 

First, disable one or two fingers on your fret hand, stick a cigarette in your mouth, and conger up an ability almost no one ever has.....

[milod]

Rob... you nailed it.

 

m

[deepblue]

First' date=' disable one or two fingers on your fret hand, stick a cigarette in your mouth, and conger up an ability almost no one ever has..... [/quote']

 

Agreed....but, the scales?

[DanvillRob]

Agreed....but' date=' the scales?[/quote']

 

Over my head.... I can't even play like Elvis!

[Rocky4]

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/10-things-you/August-2007/30248

[SweetMarie]

Agreed....but' date=' the scales?[/quote']

 

Weelll...chromatic, but I don't think that's what you mean.

 

I think you're talking about his glissando. He would slide his fingers up and down the neck, playing the notes as his fingers reached them. With 2 fingers on his fretting hand, conventional technique was impossible, so no scales really.

 

The Selmer guitars are said to have had AMAZING necks...

[SHO]

I'm just guessing as I never played any Django, but I'd look into the Phrygian major scale. There is also a "gypsy scale" that you might want to check out. Basically you raise the 4th of the natural minor scale, but you can just google for it and I'm sure it will pop up somewhere. Still, I doubt Django stuck to scales in a formal manner, but they might be a place to start.

[TommyK]

'Scales in the formal manner.."

 

Bloody 'ell, Django couldn't read a lick of music. He could barely sign his own name. He used the time honored method called, "play what sounds good."

[jaxson50]

Over my head.... I can't even play like Elvis!

But can you shake you money maker?

[Rocky4]

I remember a documentary on IFC a while back about Django. It was more about people trying to play like him. They would put a rubber band around their last two fingers. I wish I could remember it. Online research time........

[jaxson50]

'Scales in the formal manner.."

 

Bloody 'ell' date=' Django couldn't read a lick of music. He could barely sign his own name. He used the time honored method called, "play what sounds good."[/quote']

That's the truth,,,I think he scalloped his fingerboard and slide his fingers real fast!!

[Lowdown]

'Scales in the formal manner.."

 

Bloody 'ell' date=' Django couldn't read a lick of music. He could barely sign his own name. He used the time honored method called, "play what sounds good."

 

And there you have it.

 

Sorry,but that cat was lightning in a bottle. Jamming along to that fiddle player(name escapes me sorry[-( ...I know)man,freakin' outta this world.

 

Charleston and Ain't Misbehavin' are really the only 2 songs I can ever rattle off off the top of my head,but they have always stood out for me. Beautiful. Have an album on the pod which I will listen to now. Thanx. You got me in a Django mood.

 

When it comes to scales,I don't really think he was working within/out the boundaries as he sounded more like a slide player with that glissando thing someone above mentioned. And chords,chords and more chords.Lots of fills as he was also the backbone when you listen,as well as the solo guitarist. Hard stuff to carry off in a duo situation when you're doing what they were.

 

Ahead of the pack that man.

[SHO]

'Scales in the formal manner.." :)

 

Bloody 'ell' date=' Django couldn't read a lick of music. He could barely sign his own name. He used the time honored method called, "play what sounds good."[/quote']

 

Well, that's what I said, isn't it? But even people who have no idea of any music theory usually end up memorising and playing patterns that sounds good for particular situations, and guess what, they sound good for a reason - they're scales. Someone else already thought of them, analysed what makes them work and over what and made up names for them. Boring, cold and heartless mathematics is what it comes down to. No reason not to use the knowledge that is out there rather than just go by trial and error alone.

[milod]

Okay, TommyK nailed it, really.

 

As did Rob...

 

I think Django likely never thought of scales per se; to me I hear a number of variations and yeah, gypsy sorts of "sound" comes through rather obviously but at times so also does a more "American" jazz thing.

 

Le Jazz Hot had a fiddle that obviously would be adding to a gypsy fiddle concept in Django's head along with "French impressionist" music that the fiddler was influenced by.

 

The lack of fingers... yeah, I think in ways he likely was inventing scales on the fly, but colored by his background and stuff he was hearing around him. Listening to fiddler Stephane Grappelli - they started playing in their rather odd version of "jazz" in '34 and with what may be one of the first jazz/pop rhythm and lead guitar things as I recall - gives an idea of how a lotta different musical concepts all coalesced in their stuff.

 

I haven't listened to a lotta Django the past 30 years or so, but I think just plain listening and perhaps using a computer to slow things down to play along might give some ideas of what he was doing on various pieces.

 

Later on he used a standard electric jazz box, too, at least on some recordings.

 

As for the "argument" over a formal vs an informal analysis of how Django's music follows or doesn't follow a give scale, my own opinion for what it's worth is that listening a lot should come first regardless. Then you can play or "parse" however it might seem more appropriate for a given individual's inclination. Seriously, I think Django, as many of the rest of us, was doing some different stuff at different times of life and with different "songs."

 

m

[DanvillRob]

:) But can you shake you money maker?

 

Shoot... I could shake it 'til if fell off, and I STILL couldn't make any money!!

[deepblue]

I remember a documentary on IFC a while back about Django. It was more about people trying to play like him. They would put a rubber band around their last two fingers. I wish I could remember it. Online research time........

 

I saw that as well....very interesting. The part about people in China trying to copy his

style was great!

[pippy]

my own opinion for what it's worth is that listening a lot should come first regardless. Then you can play or "parse" however it might seem more appropriate for a given individual's inclination. Seriously' date=' I think Django, as many of the rest of us, was doing some different stuff at different times of life and with different "songs."

m

[/quote']

 

I may be in the minority on this one around here as I listen to Django's stuff pretty much on a daily basis. His scales are not unusual as far as I can work out; it's his phrasing which just makes them seem so.

 

Listening, of course, is the main thing.

 

I've a fair few tracks by him and of the ones where I have different 'cuts' he tends to interpret them in very different ways depending on when they were laid down.

 

As a point of trivia; should you ever track down a copy of the DVD "Chasing Sound - The Les Paul Story", you would hear the great man saying that, as far as he was concerned, there was Django. Then all the rest.

 

Lastly, two small points; firstly. It is NOT necessary to artificially 'wither-away' two fingers. Secondly. As everyone here knows; Milo's opinion is worth a hell of a lot!

[milod]

Pippy... First... <blush>

 

Sometimes I think I should listen more to Django and then... I think I should just plain play more.

 

But to explain a bit on "old guitar pickers," tonite I'm doing a bit in a benefit. I'll do "nobody knows you when you're down and out," a 1923 piece Bessie Smith recorded first. Clapton did it "unplugged" whenever he did that album.

 

I've done it since about '64 and it's different every time I play it, even though it's always been fingerpicking. But then - even when I'm reading music, it's more like using an outline for a speech than a fully written out, word for word thing. Am I doing a blues, jazz, folk or rock version? Darned if I know.

 

I think Django might similarly be similarly hard-pressed to do an actual "I do this kind of music" definition other than perhaps "jazz," but heavens, you hear other stuff in it. Lots of other stuff. And he was playing a lot. I'll wager he sounded way different many nights. Let's see, let's play this thingie 'cuz I feel like it. <grin>

 

In Django's younger days you've gotta figure that hearing recordings and doing exact copies of recordings wasn't the big deal it's been since WWII. People in combos especially did their own thing, for better or worse. Those who played in various radio combos picked up concepts and technique from others, but mostly did their own thing.

 

Guys like Django not only were incredibly talented, they listened to other stuff. Everything we hear that we like will affect us. If you or I were playing with somebody like Grapelli, we'd be making both unconscious as well as conscious adjustments simply by the "influence." That's what makes a group of any style "work" anyway.

 

If only I had 5 percent of Django's talent. But I note he didn't try to copy anybody, so most of the time I don't either.

 

m

[SHO]

As for the "argument" over a formal vs an informal analysis of how Django's music follows or doesn't follow a give scale' date=' my own opinion for what it's worth is that listening a lot should come first regardless.

[/quote']

 

I agree with you. That's how I learned for years, and as I talked about before, picked up a bunch of patterns I used which years later I found out had names. I clearly remember using mixolydian and harmonic minor a lot without having any idea of what they were or came from. There were a couple of others too.

 

Either way, the guy who made the thread asked for scales and I tried to help and give him just that with what limited knowledge I have of Django's playing. I might not be totally spot on, or cover all of his playing styles or songs, but I do believe they're as good a place to start as any.

[SHO]

Also, the guy asked for scales to put him in Django territory, not to be Django reborn.

[milod]

Sho...

 

Ain't arguin'. <grin>

 

I'm still convinced that even for a truly talented "classical" musician who is a gifted sight reader, listening is a priority.

 

Notes on paper, however, and "scales" are wonderful tools. I think perhaps in ways they're more important tools especially for those who play what I call "vertically" as opposed to horizontally. Django played largely vertically. I tend to play more horizontally myself.

 

I haven't the slightest idea what to name scales I may be playing. <grin> I think sometimes that's a major weakness in my character, if not my playing, but then...

 

m

[pippy]

Also' date=' the guy asked for scales to put him in Django territory, not to be Django reborn.[/quote']

 

Point taken and understood very well.

 

But you must, in return, understand that Django didn't apply 'fixed scale' procedure. He played what he felt was needed.

 

He was a genius.

 

We can all try to 'bottom-line' "Genius".

 

It might not always work.