Line out for tube amps?

[milod]

Just got done talking with our area tube electronics expert. He's been working with tube electronics from radios to guitar amps for over 30 years.

 

I asked if there's a way to crunch an old tube amp's output down to a level to run into a computer.

 

His response was... "Somebody has to be making a device that does that..."

 

I've never seen one advertised.

 

Anybody know of one?

 

I do not care to "mike it through a solid state mixer with a USB output" 'cuz I want to bypass the mike entirely.

 

?????

 

m

[Robin Nahum]

Hi Milod,

 

You are probably looking for something like this:

 

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI100.aspx

 

I haven't actually used a DI in this way. Maybe somebody else could chime in?

 

 

RN

[milod]

Robin...

 

Yeah, I think so...

 

I'm just worried about whether the big old tube (valve) amp will handle it or if lacking the appropriate resistance of speaker(s) it'd blow.

 

m

[DeVeeWee]

milod, sorry for asking, but what is the purpose of this all? Can I hear you playing live on your ES-175, through my mac in the near futur?

[Robin Nahum]

Robin...

 

Yeah' date=' I think so...

 

I'm just worried about whether the big old tube (valve) amp will handle it or if lacking the appropriate resistance of speaker(s) it'd blow.

 

m

[/quote']

 

Hi Milod,

 

I just did a Google search:

 

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=speaker+output+to+a+DI&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

 

This identified a number of articles including:

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr98/articles/diboxes.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit#Valve_.28tube.29_Amplifiers

 

The Wikipedia article notes (as you do) that:

 

"...valve (tube) amplifiers need to 'see' a loudspeaker connected to their outputs to prevent damage, and should not be used with DI boxes unless a pass-through link to a loudspeaker is in place, or the DI box is designed for use with these amplifiers."

 

Looking at the manual for the DI100, I can see a pass-through link but I don't think it is for a speaker level signal. And there is no mention of use with tube amps. Maybe an email to Behringer would clear this up?

 

The other thing that both articles note is that with this approach, you lose the acoustic qualities imparted by the speaker and cab.

 

RN

[Robin Nahum]

Back again.

 

I just did a search at the Telecaster page and found:

 

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/recording-progress/133556-can-you-use-speaker-out-recoring.html

 

If you scroll down to Tim Armstrong's first post, he refers to the Hughes and Kettner Red Box:

 

http://www.zzounds.com/item--HUKRBCLASSIC

 

It looks like H&K have thought through the issues.

 

RN

[flyingarmadillo]

Does the amp in question have an effects loop? If it does just feed the computer from the output side of that. Otherwise, if you're handy with a soldering iron, tap the input side of the master volume. Most of the tube sound comes from the preamp anyhow.

[milod]

The amp is a early-mid 1970s Aims Dual Twelve. It's pretty fancy for the era, but no effects loops or anything at all. There is a plug for an aux speaker.

 

Kris...

 

 

There are three on there - one old-style one-guitar blues, one more a jazz background to a vocal and one cowboy type thing. All three are with the ES...

 

All three of those, btw, were run through a Kustom 30-watt solid state acoustic amp, mike on one side, guitar on the other; then the line-out went to a little cheapie USB connector to the "PC" computer where Audacity recorded 'em. Then the cheapie Microsoft movie maker took a still and added it to the music and voila, even an old country boy can get somethin' out.

 

The quality when you're trying to watch levels and pick and maybe sing simultaneously ain't so hot, but... you'll see what I mean when I say I'm really playing a piano bar keyboard but just using a guitar to make the sounds. <grin>

 

The hope was to figure how I could use the tube amp the same way. It also has separate controls for two real channels. I've used it for solo stuff with a mike in one side and guitar in the other - which is how I used the little Kustom and why I bought the little one in the first place.

 

m

[EVOL!]

If you scroll down to Tim Armstrong's first post' date=' he refers to the Hughes and Kettner Red Box:

 

http://www.zzounds.com/item--HUKRBCLASSIC

 

It looks like H&K have thought through the issues.

 

RN

 

[/quote']

 

The Red Box does not simulate a speaker load so if you want to remove the speaker completely this is not it. It has a pass through so you can plug the speaker out from your amp into it and then run a speaker cable from the Red Box's out into a speaker cabinet.

[milod]

Well... I got a nice return from one company that makes interfaces.

 

Al Keltz had some great info from Whirlwind that I appreciate - and I assume others might.

 

m

 

=======================

 

If the AIMS doesn't have an additional output jack, we don't have an interface that will work.

 

If the AIMS has a second speaker jack, we have a direct box (DI) that can handle speaker level but it outputs mic level which may or may not be enough to drive the USB interface properly.

 

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/direct-boxes/director

 

Be aware that with a tube type amp, you have to always have a speaker hooked up or you can damage the output circuitry. Our DI from a SECOND speaker jack won't hurt the amp - the question is can you get enough level into the USB unit & I can't say for sure.

 

It would be enough level to go into the 1/8" mic input jack on the computer. In either case, the output of the DI is XLR so you'd have to have an adapter to go from XLR to RCA (or 1/8" mic jack).

 

Not a very elegant solution either but it could work.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions or need more information.

 

Al Keltz - Whirlwind

99 Ling Road

Rochester NY 14612

alk@whirlwindusa.com

www.whirlwindusa.com

800 733-9473, Ext. 140

585 865-8930 - fax

[DiamondJig]

The THD hot plate and the Webber Miniass both hove line outs

[DeVeeWee]

 

m

 

milod' date=' that's what I wrote down on your YouTube page:

 

"Nice pickin and such a warm voice! Congrats m.!"[thumbup']

Kris,

[Andre S]

wait, I thought the Marshall 6101 combo had a line out, thats what Johnny A said he uses.

[milod]

thanks kris...

 

now i've gotta mess with that tube amp - except I'm working off and on all weekend.

 

m

[Andy R]

thanks kris...

 

now i've gotta mess with that tube amp - except I'm working off and on all weekend.

 

m

 

I know this is a pretty old post and don't know if you ever got an attenuator with a line out but if not and you're still interested I highly recommend the webber Mass 150. Unlike most attenuators which use fixed resistors to act as the speaker load and dissipate the heat it actually uses a "Speaker Motor" so the resistance is dynamic like a speaker load would be.

Weber Mass Link I got mine for about 125.00 on ebay

 

I would also recommend the Palmer PDI-03 Speaker simulator. It is an attenuator with multiple line outs and speaker simulation settings. These are pretty expensive but if you look around you can pick up a used one in the 400 to 500 range. I use this more than the weber currently but both work well.

PDI-03 Info

 

I never cared for the THD hotplates myself....

 

Regards,

 

Andy

[milod]

Thanks Andy...

 

I guess I kinda gave up, especially since my Kustom A-E amp does pretty well. Not perhaps as well as my big old tube amp - an AIMS Dual Twelve - but pretty well. That's what I used with an inexpensive Edirol USB interface to do the Youtube things.

 

Again, I think I'm more afraid of blowing the old amp than anything - and if I spend that kinda cash, I think I'd prefer putting it into a small club PA to upgrade what I have.

 

Thanks for the ideas, though.

 

I just don't like the idea of miking an amp anyway unless perhaps in a studio. The solid state amp does a decent job, and it's mostly just for capturing practice sessions that once in a while somebody talks me into putting up on the Web.

 

m

[damian]

Milod, and all who added to this thread; This is the kind of thread I look for; a question; discussions; potential solutions and answers; more questions; etc; and an ending:

 

Whether or not the ending is happy or not, the thread itself becomes a learning experience, and a thread to refer back to.......ie ; I learned a lot from this thread.....

 

Thanks all..............

 

Of course we need Neo's threads as well................