john_casino Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I've owned my Casino for a little over two years. It's my favourite guitar (Over my Rickenbacker 650D, Fender Telecaster) despite obvious (but minor) problems. I have the korean model and i don't want to trade it in to get the Elitist or JL models only because it was a Christmas present from my parents. So since I'm keeping it I decided I'd uprade it! So, OK, I know next to nothing about doing this and figured I should seek out some advice before destroying my guitar. It's sunburst everything is the same as when i got it. I'm thinking of putting on some Gold Grover tuners. So, yeh that's as far as Ive gotten by myself. Any advice appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoyer Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Does your Casino have gold hardware? Anyway, I installed a Bigsby B7 tremelo bar - some people think that's screwing with the balance of the guitar but it doesn't bother me at all and was well worth the added feature of some gentle tremelo for ballads or wilder stuff for rockabilly. It depends on what styles you play I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_casino Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'm not all too sure what a Bigsby B7 tremolo bar is. The hardware is silver (hardware means tuners, pickups, bridge right?) And I know Gold tuners would go against the rest of the hardware but being up on the headstock i dont think it'll make a big difference and I prefer the gold. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrie Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Bmoyer, How did the install go on the Bigsby B7? Thanks Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hey John, Are you looking for a cosmetic or machanical upgrade? Check out Bob "Notes" and my upgrades on the Gibson EPI forum. Bob convinced me to go with black hardware on my cherry casion Let us know what you think Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I've seen a lot of guitars with gold hardware, and most that I've seen have had the gold worn off and the nickel (or whatever the silver material is made of) come through the finish. Usually they look pretty ratty when that happens. As Mark indicated I changed the pickguard and knobs on my Epiphone (shown here along side my 1969 or 70 Gibson ES-330) Before: After: I got the knobs from Guitar Fetish and the Pickguard from Chandler's Pickguard Heaven. I've put a black cover on the pickup switch (thanks jerrymac) but I haven't taken the picture yet. As far as doing anything drastic like changing the pickups, tuners, or adding a Bigsby, I don't have the skills to do that myself. If I wanted to do something like that, I'd take it to my local music store and have their "guitar tech" or luthier do that for me. I wouldn't want to take a chance on messing up one of my babies. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 lennon's casino had gold tuners and nickel hardware in the 2nd phase of its life... you could go for nylon saddles, some say that changes / improves the sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 <...snip...> you could go for nylon saddles' date=' some say that changes / improves the sound [/quote'] The saddles on my Gibson are nylon, and on my Casino they are metal. There are significant other differences between the two, mostly where the neck joins the body which resulted in the string length being longer on the Gibby and the bridge being put higher on the body on the Gibby. Also, I believe the Gibson is 3 ply while the Casino is 5 ply (read it on the Internet - please correct me if that is wrong). Anyway, my Casino has more sustain and I don't know why. If anybody has switched to nylon saddles, I'd be very interested in knowing what that did to the tone and sustain. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpach10115 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Here's what I did to mine: I replaced the tuners with sperziels. I replaced the pickup to genuine gibson P90's. I installed a bigsby B7 and bigsby bridge. I replaced all wiring,switch,jack and pots. I used 500k pots. The action is set very low. It plays and sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoyer Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The Bigsby B7 install went really smoothly, actually. I just recommend one take a whole evening to do it right. Drilling holes is kind of permanent! But it's not rocket science - you just have to take your time and check and re-check, and there's a definite order to the steps taken. DO NOT drill hole for the heel of the guitar first, or you'll find you trem bar way too high. It's the two screws in the body that have to be done first. I feel it increased the sustain some too, which was a plus in my book. You have to be a sucker for Bigsy tone to do this, but there's nothing like the P90's bringing out the harmonics of a sustained note or chord and a little up and down wobble of the Bigsby. No other way to produce that sensation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrie Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Bmoyer,Have you seen the video from mojo on the B7?I am confused about which holes to drill and set screws first. Any help would be great. Thanks Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpach10115 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Do the end tail screws first. First, remove the strap pin from the back of the guitar. then put the bigsby on and replace the strap pin loosely. Use the string that comes supplied with the bigsby. Run the string from the low e anchor, up the fret board, through the nut and over th the high e string. Run it back down the fretboard, throught the high e nut groove to the high e anchor. Make sure that both strings are perfectly square down the fretboard. When this alignment is done, mark the 4 holes on the tailpiece. Make sure everything lines up before you mark these holes because now you get to drill the first holes. Use a very small drill bit for this. If everything is lined up, drill the 4 holes for the tail piece and screw in the 4 screws and the strap lock. Keep everything loose for now, don't tighten it up just yet. Recheck the alignment. Check to see how the bigsby lays on the guitar. You should have almost a 90 degree angle on the bigsby from the top to the tailpiece. If everything looks good, tighten the screws. You can do the next step in one of 2 ways. You can line up the bigsby using either the red string that is alreay on the guitar, or the way I do it is to actually string the guitar up. After the strings are on the guitar, make sure the low E, and the high E line up straight. If so, mark where the 2 hole on top lay. Using a small drill bit, drill the 2 holes on top using the bigsby holes as a guide. Do one at a time. Do the first one, make it finger tight, then drill the second one. Tighten up all the screws, put the spring and washer in, and tune it up and enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'm not all too sure what a Bigsby B7 tremolo bar is. The hardware is silver (hardware means tuners' date=' pickups, bridge right?) And I know Gold tuners would go against the rest of the hardware but being up on the headstock i dont think it'll make a big difference and I prefer the gold. Thanks.[/quote'] This is a Bigsby B7 Vibrato, John... They also come in gold... It's a "whammy bar"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_casino Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 Wow those are some really nice pictures. I like what you've done with both of those guitars. I noticed you've changed the tuners on your Casino, which is my main concern. I find the tuners that come standard dont stay in tune very well. That's why I'm thinking of putting on Grovers. Anyways, I'm thinking less along the lines of cosmetic in my opinion my Casino is a very nice looking guitar. It's just anything I can do to make it better quality and closer to the "assembled in America" ones without changing my guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It's just anything I can do to make it better quality and closer to the "assembled in America" ones without changing my guitar. You really can't... The Casinos that were made in the 'zoo' were 5-ply laminate (maple and birch).. The MIK Casino is 3-ply maple.. The construction of the original Casinos was better too.. The only thing you can do to upgrade a Casino is replace the pickups and pots.. Kent Armstrongs are the popular favourites, since they make dogear P-90's specifically for the Casino (string spacing issues). Some prefer to change the tuners.. I've had no problems with mine.. I think it's more of a nut issue than a tuner issue... (I haven't replaced the nut, I just lubricate it.) As you have already seen, a lot of people like to put a Bigsby on for sustain and vibrato... None of these mods really make it closer to a vintage American-made Casino, though... Or at least not in any way that's measurable.. The only way to get anything that resembles an original Casino is to buy the Revolution or 1965 replicas... But they cost $2,500! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_casino Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 To tell you the truth that's what I was afraid of. My parents keep telling me I should just trade it in (with a bit of cash of course) and upgrade to the American one. I've had my eye on the 1965 Casino actually. Maybe I should just save up and buy it. I mean I'm fifteen what else am I going to spend my money on? Hopefully they'll be around for a while longer cuz first on my list is an acoustic I didn't pick up at a flea market, I'm thinking J-160E? (Yes I'm completely obsessed with The Beatles). Anyways thanks for all the replys and you can keep the forum going if you want maybe it'll help someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I put a Nickel Gotoh Nashville style bridge with nylon saddles(product number GEP103B), on two of my Matsumoku Casino`s recently,mainly because the retaining wire rattles at times with the original ones,and these have more mass,i found this rounded out the notes somewhat (a bit warmer)and gave a little more sustain.But then i replaced the original generic 5 and a half inch Trapeze tailpiece,with the heavier/longer six inch ones found on the Lennon and original Kalamazoo models,plus Gibson ES330`S,and that improved sustain a lot more!!.But i must say,that the main contributor to the Casino sound(apart from pickups)is the length of neck to the body!.This dictates where the bridge is positioned,plus how large the neck block is, in the body,and i find for that reason the originals,the Elitists,the Lennon reissues and the Matsumoku`s which all share the 16th fret neck/body join,sound more correct than those that have the 17th fret or 19th fret neck/body join like on some Casino`s and ES330`s.Hope this is of some use.Frenchie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 "But then i replaced the original generic 5 and a half inch Trapeze tailpiece,with the heavier/longer six inch ones found on the Lennon and original Kalamazoo models,plus Gibson ES330`S,and that improved sustain a lot more!!" where did you get that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 <...SNIP...>. I noticed you've changed the tuners on your Casino' date=' which is my main concern. I find the tuners that come standard dont stay in tune very well. That's why I'm thinking of putting on Grovers.<...>[/quote'] The previous owner of my Casino replaced the tuners with Grovers. My Gibson has the original Kluson style tuners. The problem might not be your tuners, the strings could be binding in the nut. I had problems with both my guitars until a fellow guitarist gave me this information............... When re-stringing the guitar, rub a number 2 or number 1 pencil in the grooves of the nut. This keeps the strings from binding in the nut. I do this whenever I change strings and now neither the Grovers nor the Klusons give me any tuning problems. A simple fix. Some stores sell special graphite for this, but pencil lead works fine for me. You can also have the nut replaced with a graphite nut, I heard that they work very well but I have no direct experience with them. The guy who told me about the pencil lead in the nut grooves also told me to put a tiny bit of oil on the saddle. I tried this (with Radio Shack Teflon because it is supposed to be OK if it gets on the wood) but I didn't like it. I sometimes rest my hand on the bridge to play muted guitar style and I didn't like the little bit of oil that got on my hand. But I found that with my guitar, the oil is not necessary. Just the graphite on the nut is enough. And it makes the guitar easier to tune, too. No more turning the peg - nothing happens - turn the peg a bit more - nothing happens turn the peg a tiny bit more, the strings make a noise and move too much so the guitar passes the correct spot. Now (with the lead) a tiny tweak of the tuner results in a tiny change in the string pitch. If your problem is tuning, try the pencil lead approach first. It might save you money. Of course, if you want to change them just for the looks, the pencil lead trick will help with both the old and the new tuners. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin_hanton Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 "But then i replaced the original generic 5 and a half inch Trapeze tailpiece' date='with the heavier/longer six inch ones found on the Lennon and original Kalamazoo models,plus Gibson ES330`S,and that improved sustain a lot more!!" where did you get that? [/quote'] Bump. I'm curious about this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpach10115 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 The avatar shows my casino after the modifications I described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 To tell you the truth that's what I was afraid of. My parents keep telling me I should just trade it in (with a bit of cash of course) and upgrade to the American one. I've had my eye on the 1965 Casino actually. Maybe I should just save up and buy it. I mean I'm fifteen what else am I going to spend my money on? Hopefully they'll be around for a while longer cuz first on my list is an acoustic I didn't pick up at a flea market' date=' I'm thinking J-160E? (Yes I'm completely obsessed with The Beatles). Anyways thanks for all the replys and you can keep the forum going if you want maybe it'll help someone else. [/quote'] I wish you luck snagging one of those before they're all gone.. I would be satisfied just to have an Elitist Casino... (Unfortunately, I'm not 15 anymore and have lots of other things I gotta spend my money on.. ) I've read mixed reviews about the J-160.. Haven't played one myself.. I think if you're serious about an acoustic, you owe it to yourself to check out some other options as well.. I'm always jazzed to see younger kids diggin' the Beatles.. I'm a second generation fan, myself.. First heard the White Album when I was 12... After that, nothing was the same... By the time I was your age, I was so obsessed with the Beatles, my parents thought it was a little.... bizzare. 27 years later, I'm STILL discovering things in their music I never heard before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_casino Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 I wish you luck snagging one of those before they're all gone.. I would be satisfied just to have an Elitist Casino... (Unfortunately' date=' I'm not 15 anymore and have lots of other things I gotta spend my money on.. ) I've read mixed reviews about the J-160.. Haven't played one myself.. I think if you're serious about an acoustic, you owe it to yourself to check out some other options as well.. I'm always jazzed to see younger kids diggin' the Beatles.. I'm a second generation fan, myself.. First heard the White Album when I was 12... After that, nothing was the same... By the time I was your age, I was so obsessed with the Beatles, my parents thought it was a little.... bizzare. 27 years later, I'm [u']STILL[/u] discovering things in their music I never heard before! Yeh The Beatles are just too awesome to not be obsessed with!lol. And I am checking out a few other acoustics too. I've been looking at the J-160E because I've heard only good things, the J200, and a Martin D28 but I've been checking them out for a while and I've played the D28 and its really nice but I don't think I'm gonna get it because it's not acoustic/electric and my brother has one so i can just play his once in a while to satisfy my martin needs lol. And I've played a few moderations of the J200 (J100 and epi J200 cutaway) and ive played the epiphone ej-160e but im yet to play the gibson and i really want to. So I guess I'll share my Beatles story. I was raised on country music (old country Merle Haggard George Jones Buck Owens) which is good but when I was 12 my grade 6 teacher who is a major Beatles fan had a cassette in his desk (The Beatles Red album second cassette) and one day we were having art and we wanted to listen to some music and he put it in. Well it was a friday so i asked to borrow it for the weekend and i just listened to it over and over again,it changed my life. First Beatles song i learned to sing was We Can Work It Out.....now i know them all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I played a nice EJ160 last week...used korean, but they wanted 550! could easily see it swapped over to LH 3rd grade, my mom's original copy of sgt. pepper's, I would listen every day at recess around the turntable, around 1978 or so...strange to think at that point they had only been broken up for about 8 years...equivalent to me looking back on 2000 right now...time is a bizarre concept...I am also now roughly the same age as mccartney was when I was listening in 3rd grade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hi,for Dubstar and Colin Hanton`s benefit.I got the Chrome Trapeze replacement six and half inch tailpiece off of ebay,from Allparts U.S.,they do 2 versions,the gold one is product number TP-0410-002 which is $55 or £61.41 if you go to Allparts U.K. for it. Or the Chrome one product number TP-0410-010 which is $45 or £51.10 from Allparts U.K.The Nickel one i got was from Pitch perfect music,haven`t got a code number,but it was the same price as the Chrome one.Hope this Helps guys.Frenchie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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