WCFields Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 When rpach mentioned his 25 years experience' date=' you claimed "I've quite a few more years than that on you FWIW." I can not believe that someone with that much experience would make such an asinine statement as ""Other than a broken or defective part, I fail to see the ability of tone improvements of replacing a bridge or tailpiece." It makes me wonder just how much practical experience you have. rpach has 4 Epiphones, he changed the hardware to TonePros and concludes that it improved the tone. You say it doesn't. Based on what??? Have you heard his guitars before & after??? Then how can you say that it doesn't??? There is no reason to force your opinion on people. To insult them simply because they have the audacity of having a different opinion. And speaking of insults, your snide remark about my having "the internet buzz BS on guitar parts down pat" is a really lame. Do you think that advances your argument??? I do have practical experience, I use both Gotoh & TonePros in my shop. In fact, I just got an Elitist SG that I'm restoring, I will be using a Gotoh bridge and a TP tp. I can from practical experience tell you good hardware does improve the tonality of the instrument. Without doubt. [/quote']Again, I would challenge you to a double blind test to prove your claims. I would bet big money you would fail the test and at best your answers would be 50/50 guesses. You have yet to provide any real, strong facts, proof, insight, or reasons as to why there would be any human ear audible improvements in the sonic qualities of a guitar equipped with Tone Pros over stock issue parts that are in good working order. You dance around the coals of factual questions with a hot foot of foolishness that is glaringly obvious as to the fact you have nothing real to offer in facts, proof or reality of sustaining your ill founded claims. You and your claims fall into the well known category of wishful thinking of a duped consumer that thinks money spent has to provide an improvement. A sucker IS born every minute, and at this point you have shown yourself to have fallen into that category. At first I had hoped you could at least defend your position with some intelligent reasoning, but as of yet, none has come to surface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 When I bought a $100 VandenHul-cable to connect the CDplayer to my amp. I claimed it made a significant improvement over the standard cable that came with the CD-player. My friends hardly heard a difference and told me I was a FF-ing moron. That may be true, but I still hear a difference. We are still friends. Not contributing in any way, but somehow it seemed appropiate to bring up. I'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpach10115 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Here is the bottom line: Tonepros are an upgrade over stock Epi pieces. Anyone that has any experience with a Ukelele would know this. I love people that when you challange their assinine opinions they feel the need to give you their resume. If you have more experience , that's your problem. I know a bottlewasher that has years of experience. I'm sure I could find a better bottlewasher than him. Maybe it's Mr. corporate. You can detail here about your double blind bottlewashing test. You seem to want to tell everybody about your scientific. double blind tests. Are you serious with these "double blind" tests. These are guitars Einstein. There is no more of a personal item in the world than a musicians personal guitar. EVERY one is different. Every Player is different. You like you Hello Kitty guitar with stock Cheap parts. Icono loves to sit on his grandmas plastic slipcovered chair and play. I like my epi's with every possible upgrade I can find, including tonepros among other "Brands" that I have installed. Does that make you a better person. According to you it does. According to you, everybody is wrong and Mr.Corporate is correct. I feel sorry for you. If this is how you go about life, attacking anybody that has a different personal opinion, then you and Icono truly deserve each other. Look at everypost on this thread. The only negitive, venom spewing posters, are you and Icono. Nobody else has attacked this subject but the all knowing Mr. Corporate. You both have gone out of your way to attack Jerry. All he was doing was stating his opinion, just like most of us had, and both of you tried unsuccessfully to shout him down. If this was a clear issue, I could see the level of your attacks. BUT, this is not a clear issue, these are opinions, not fact. You venom that you are directing at people for their opinions is childish, and exteemly unprofessional. You are proving with every post that you are NOT professionals. A professional guitar tech would listen, then offer his opinion. If the customers opinion was different than the guitar tech, and the customer still wanted to do it. Do you know what would happen: The guitar tech would do it. Why would he do it? Because a professional knows that every guitar player is different. Even if there is no perceptable difference. He does it because that is what the customer wants. That's what pro's do. They don't attack somebody because they have a different opinion. Your opinion, however shortsighted, is your opinion. I HAVE NEVER ATTACKED ANYONE ON THESE BOARDS FOR THEIR OPINION. What the hell gives you and Icono the right to attack other posters? If you think you are better than every else, then you both are truly sad individules, Unless you both get off on giving different opinions just to piss people off. Again, a lack of professionalism on both of your parts. I would love to see you true disdain for corporate by seeing the list of "Corporate" manufacture guitars that you own. I will bet you own one. Yet all you do is critisize others for their personal opinions. The only statement of fact that I have posted was the a tonepros is an upgrade over the stock epi bridge/tail.. That is the onlt fact I have stated. I state this because it is true. You have twisted around, and made attacks on everything else I have said. If you truly have the experience that you and Icono try to claim you have, then you would have been more professional, and more educated in your responses. Telling us that you switched bridge/tails on 2 guitars many years ago is truly laughable, but you keep trying to convince us. My bet is that you have no idea what you are talking about. You are proving it on every response you post. If you do know what your talking about, then you must be the worst guitar tech in the world. If some of your customers were to read this, they would be horrified at the unqualified idiot that is working on their guitar's. Icono. Tell grandma, that I don't need her plastic slipcovered chair/guitar stand. I actually own Guitar stands and hangers. I don't need used mildew ridden furniture. You and you friend Mr. Corporate are obviously the flag wavers for unprofessionalism. He loves stock epi bridge/tails, and you can't even afford a guitar stand. Both of you guys are pathetic. You weak attempts to slime a knowledgeable musician have failed badly. Now you resort to personal attacks. That is always the last resort of a desperate man. Again, A tonepro's system II is an upgrade over a stock epi bridge/tail. Just to humor you, a gotoh bridge/tail is an upgrade over the stock epi bridge/tail. Heck, almost anything is an upgrade over a stock epi bridge/tail. Damn, how many times has that stupid wire on the bridge fallen out, or buzzed like crazy? I won't even get into the PU selector switch. You are going to tell me the EPI PU selector switch is high quality too. Oh I forgot, your the best tech in the world, that dosen't happen to you. Seriously, stop the attacks. It really is making both of you come off as wining babies, not the professionals that you are purporting that you are. If you truly are professional, then just state what you are saying as you opinion and move on. Stop attacking other for their opinions. People WILL stop listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokestack Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Tone-Pros probably found a cheaper source for bridges to drill holes in ;^) But joking asside..I had hoped that folks could agree to differ or meet in the middle on this one :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 This is getting to be ridiculous..This is over now, RIGHT GUYS???? RIGHT!!!!..........J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpach10115 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwaysteve Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Just got the Tone Pros for an aluminum stop bar.Thought the guitar sounded better to my ears, which are the final judge in my experience. I like to experiment with different mods just for the fun of trying different things.I wouldn't keep a mod only to justify the expense.If I don't like I , I chuck it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotteads Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 I appreciate everyone input, but I still have my original question. Here's the thing. I bought some Tonepros (metric bridge and tailpeice), which I believe is correct for Epis (I'm putting them on an Epi Alleykat). At least for my Epi I believe the metric is the correct size (large post holes). However, they dont quiet fit they are a little off. However, I am trying to replacing the screws too (not the part that is mounted into the guitar). Maybe I shouldnt have tried that. But... If I put the new screws in just very slightly and place the new bridge on it will fit, but when I start tightening the screws down they get very tight quickly (like they dont fit). I was afraid to put too much force on the guitar. Does anyone have a similar experience or any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotteads Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 I appreciate everyone input, but I still have my original question. Here's the thing. I bought some Tonepros (metric bridge and tailpeice), which I believe is correct for Epis (I'm putting them on an Epi Alleykat). At least for my Epi I believe the metric is the correct size (large post holes). However, they dont quiet fit they are a little off. However, I am trying to replacing the screws too (not the part that is mounted into the guitar). Maybe I shouldnt have tried that. But... If I put the new screws in just very slightly and place the new bridge on it will fit, but when I start tightening the screws down they get very tight quickly (like they dont fit). I was afraid to put too much force on the guitar. Does anyone have a similar experience or any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I appreciate everyone input' date=' but I still have my original question. Here's the thing. I bought some Tonepros (metric bridge and tailpeice), which I believe is correct for Epis (I'm putting them on an Epi Alleykat). At least for my Epi I believe the metric is the correct size (large post holes). However, they dont quiet fit they are a little off. However, I am trying to replacing the screws too (not the part that is mounted into the guitar). Maybe I shouldnt have tried that. But... If I put the new screws in just very slightly and place the new bridge on it will fit, but when I start tightening the screws down they get very tight quickly (like they dont fit). I was afraid to put too much force on the guitar. Does anyone have a similar experience or any suggestions? [/quote'] TonePros® Tune-O-Matic Installation The first thing to remember, is that even though every company uses the exact same specifications, and we can "fly to the moon", we still can't always get our bridge post holes drilled in exactly the same, right places. You may not have noticed, but on many bridges, the hole on the bottom is bigger than the hole on the top, this is a "funnel or cone shaped" hole. This helps to guide your bridge posts if the holes are "just a little off". If your holes are just a little off, don't panic, your bridge will fit! And don't worry because "tight is good"! If the new bridge doesn't just drop right on at first, simply "dial up" your posts and either gently pinch or separate your posts until the new bridge is on and seats properly, then dial your posts back down to where you had them. Now restring your guitar as normal, and adjust bridge height as in the past. Once your "action" is adjusted to where you like it, go ahead and tighten the allen screws on each side bridge post (as always, careful not to over tighten) locking them in place. Now set your intonation. That's it!! You are done, and it is set and will stay that way, strings or no strings!! Better contact, better transfer, better coupling, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCFields Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Here is the bottom line: The only statement of fact that I have posted was that tonepros is an upgrade over the stock epi bridge/tail.. That is the *only* fact I have stated.....blah' date=' blah, blah (insert, long,gushing diatribe of words).............................................................[/quote'] In your multitude of words you dig the hole of foolisheness you stand in deeper and deeper. You did not simply claim the Tone Pros to be an upgrade, you made some *VERY SPECIFIC CLAIMS OF FACT* which I contend are wrong, and you have yet to offer up any proof of your outlandish claims. Let me refresh your memory on your claims: tonepros system II is twice the weight of a standard epi bridge/tail. This will only enhance the sound and sustain. The EPI LP customs that I have installed these on play much better than the stock ones. I personally get more sustain with the higher mass that the tailpiece offers. The sustain is MUCH better with the System II. I am telling you flat out' date=' these systems II give more sustain and playability than the stock units. [/quote'] Again, please define the exact area of "playability" that that is improved on the guitar. WHAT is it? Exactly WHAT "playability" area has improved??? Please provide proof of the improved sustain that you keep making claims to. This is a very specific claim, prove it, have you performed specific note decay tests? Your whole hog style of buying into a manufacture's claim does little to further the music world other than offer an incentive for unsuspecting folks to toss good money to the wind in hopes of reaping those benefits you lay claim to but can not prove, or even specifically define!!!! Better playability? What a worthless, generalized statement. It means and says nothing other than the making of a blanket claim of some major improvement that you can not even define as to the specific improvement made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpach10115 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Goodbye Mr. Fields. I hope you have a nice life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCFields Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Goodbye Mr. Fields. I hope you have a nice life.Here we have it, the bottom line, NOTHING, ZILCH, ZERO. You can not prove your claims nor do you even have an explanation for them. 4 times you have been asked a very simple question...... to succinctly define the supposed component of "playabilty" that the Tone Pros improved, but as of yet you have not given one single, good definition of the component of "playability" that was supposedly improved, in fact you have not given *ANY*definition of the supposed component of playability that was improved according to you. Congrats of being one more lemming that follows the Pied Piper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpach10115 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Listen, XXXXXXX I would rather not debate this any more with a moron like you. Get it, jerk! This is my final word on this, goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCFields Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Listen' date=' ********. I would rather not debate this any more with a moron like you. Get it, jerk! This is my final word on this, goodbye.[/quote']Ah...here we have the real you, name calling and insults. When all else fails and you have no reasonable, logical answer run back to the sandbox, throw some sand and call names. Tone Pros would be proud of your intelligent, well though out and proven response.;) =D> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themac5150 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Shoot... in the Dr. Epiphone Lab on the epiphone site, the locktone stopbar and Tune o matic, there are graphs that chart the comparison results of stock versus locktone sustain. Not tonepro, but it's data.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokestack Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 The problem with all this polorised bickering is always that the real point very quickly becomes lost and everybody's mind gets locked down into "I'm right and you're wrong" mode ! Folks who claim that changing significant pieces of hardware in the energy path doesn't make any difference are ignoring the basic laws of mechanics. Those who claim that the same results will always be achieved by fitting the same piece of hardware with its specific mass and mechanical properties are ignoring the random variabiliy in the timber structure of the guitar...and they are equally silly ! The belief that things like a bridge or stoptail upgrade can make a nice difference is all that the industry needs to start punting all these after market products at us. How many online guitar parts suppliers are out there today...selling loads of product and making good money ? Scores of them ! The thing that many of us who hang out around here have in common is the thing that the current parts industry is built and thrives on. We enjoy modding and playing with guitars as much as we like playing music on them ! That's not a bad thing...but your typical gigging musician simply isn't interested ...and certainly wouldn't spend half an hour of his day arguing about the sonic effect of different Tunomatic bridges ;^) We have to keep it all in perspective and remember that in addition to being musicians and guitar lovers... we're most of us also "lads who like stuff " ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson CS Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 =D> This thread is now locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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