Hopefully not a silly question...

[Billybob Dylan]

... about scale length.

 

The scale length is measured from the nut to the bridge, right? But where on the bridge? Once the guitar has been properly intonated the saddles are not the same distance from the nut, so where would you measure to? Is it taken as an average?

[brad1]

A guitar’s scale length is calculated by measuring the distance from the front edge of the nut, where it butts against the end of the fingerboard, to the center of the 12th (octave) fret, then doubling that measurement.

It's a very GOOD question. Not silly at all.

[TWANG]

I can't remember exactly.. but it varies with the bridge style..

for instance a p bass has a lot longer travel than a les paul on the bridge saddles.

 

so the idea is to measure to the middle of the saddle travel.. then intonate from them forward or backward.

 

If you look at http://www.stewmac.com you'll find tutorials, I know, on fenders, perhaps on gibsons, too.

 

Again there are some variances.. partly due to not wanting a 1/8th" or some small figure between the string hole, like on a p bass bridge, and the saddle itself.

different models, different variances. But you get the idea!

 

TWANG

[carverman]

A guitar’s scale length is calculated by measuring the distance from the front edge of the nut' date=' where it butts against the end of the fingerboard, to the center of the 12th (octave) fret, then doubling that measurement.

It's a very GOOD question. Not silly at all.

[/quote']

 

That's the way it would seem Brad. But if I measure my Epi LP (24 3/4 scale) to the

middle of the 12th, it is 12 inches exactly. From the middle of the 12th to the center

of the bass string t-o-m post is 13 inches exactly, and it is 12.75 for the treble string

post. The total measurement on the treble side is then 24.75 inches.

 

On my EPi Broadway, it is 12.5 inches from the edge of the nut to the middle of

the 12th and I got my movable archtop bridge set at 13.0 inches on the bass side

and 12 7/8 on the treble side to get the intonation right on for the 12th fret

harmonic.

[Vic Flick]

... about scale length.

 

The scale length is measured from the nut to the bridge' date=' right? But where on the bridge? Once the guitar has been properly intonated the saddles are not the same distance from the nut, so where would you measure [i']to[/i]? Is it taken as an average?

 

Measure nut to 12th fret and then double it, that's the scale length. That way you don't have to deal with the minor bridge adjustments.

 

When you adjust the saddles, you're changing the string length not the scale. The scale determines where the frets are positioned, that obviously doesn't change when you move the saddles.

 

Think of it this way, the neck, bridge & strings form a right triangle. So if you have a 24" scale guitar, the bridge would be 24" from the nut. The strings are the hypotenuse. The bridge is the hight of the triangle. So the higher the bridge, the longer the hypotenuse (strings). So even though the bridge might be 24" from the nut, the string length might be 24.2", so you would have to move the saddles .2" forward to shorten the string length. Add slight variances between different strings, theoretical vs. practical, the string length might be +/- for each string.

 

If you had a guitar with a 24" scale, the 12th fret (octave) will be 12" from the nut, 12" from the bridge. The next octave (24th fret) would be half way (6") between the 12th fret & the bridge. Etc. Etc. Etc...

[Billybob Dylan]

Thanks, everybody.

 

So if I was building a guitar and had to determine the location of a T-O-M bridge, I'd mount the neck, measure the distance from the front edge of the nut to the 12th fret (let's say it's exactly 12"), then measure 12" from the 12th fret to where the bridge needs to be located.

 

If I center each saddle and measure 12" from the 12th fret to the saddles, will this give me enough wiggle room for proper intonation?

 

EDIT: I've just realized the bridge needs to angled slightly with the treble strings towards the nut. But by how much?

 

Something else I've just thought of - is the distance from the bridge to the stop tailpiece critical? Would different distances affect string tension when tuned to pitch?

 

Don't ask me why (I'm not sure I know the answer myself) but I've had a hankering for sometime to build a Telecaster Les Paul. Tele body with 2 humbuckers, T-O-M bridge and a stop tailpiece. Maybe one day...

[Vic Flick]

So if I was building a guitar and had to determine the location of a T-O-M bridge' date=' I'd mount the neck, measure the distance from the front edge of the nut to the 12th fret (let's say it's exactly 12"), then measure 12" from the 12th fret to where the bridge needs to be located. [/quote']

 

That should do it.

 

If I center each saddle and measure 12" from the 12th fret to the saddles' date=' will this give me enough wiggle room for proper intonation?

 

EDIT: I've just realized the bridge needs to angled slightly with the treble strings towards the nut. But by how much?[/quote']

 

I would suggest the wider Nashville style bridge over the original ABR-1. Gives you more leeway. Gotoh makes a good one at a decent price.

 

Slight angle, not that critical especially if you use the wider bridge.

 

Another thing to watch, make sure the bridge is centered so that the strings are centered over the pickups & the neck. First, I would attach strings to the stop tp and tuners, center the strings over the neck, and mount the tp to the body. That way, you can use the strings as a guide for the bridge placement.

 

Something else I've just thought of - is the distance from the bridge to the stop tailpiece critical? Would different distances affect string tension when tuned to pitch?

 

The closer the stop tp, the great angle, which creates more downward pressure on the bridge which equals better sustain and more tension. just make sure the strings don't touch the back of the bridge. Keep it close, you can always raise the stop tp to adjust string pressure if so desired. If it's too far back, you can't get that steep angle and downward pressure on the bridge.

 

Good luck

[Billybob Dylan]

Thanks, Jerry. That's a huge help.

[theflying007]

Wow... I learned a lot here! Thanks to all you guys! I just bought an Eden Les Paul copy (just body and neck, no pre drilled holes). It looks absolute fantastic and well.....if it's gonna be a good guitar or not? I hope I can tell when its finished.

 

I hope somebody is still following this forum, or even better: somebody who knows his stuff. Please tell me if I'm mistaken!

 

I'd use the first and the last E string to connect the stopbar with the tuners so I can determine where the stopbar should be placed without being placed too much to the left or the right. I'd measure the distance from the nut to the twelfth fret and double that distance so I know where the bridge should be. Then I can place the stopbar 2 inches behind that point. Next thing to do is place the Tune o Matic with the high E saddle at the point I've measured and with the low E saddle 1/4 inch more to the back.

 

Anything wrong with that? Any comments? Any additional information? Please let me know!!!!

 

Thanks!