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Help explain Vintage G-400 Pickups...

hi-fi_Eric

By hi-fi_Eric
in Epiphone Electrics

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hi-fi_Eric

hi-fi_Eric

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I recently purchased (and just love) a 'worn brown' Vintage G-400. As a neophyte to the guitar world trying to learn all I can... could you help explain the pickups advertised in this guitar? They are called out as "Hot B" and "57N" humbuckers. So I learned all about humbuckers and what they do for me but can't find even the slightest reference to explain what "Hot B" and "57N" are... If you can help, I would love to learn what these designations mean technically, what the benefit is and, how these are (or not) different that other guitars in the G-400 series. Thank You!

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snookelputz

snookelputz

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Vintage pickups, like the Patent Applied For (PAF) humbucker were wound by hand, with little attention paid to the exact count of turns of wire, or whether the wire was wound in an even fashion under steady pressure. Later, it was discovered that changing the number of windings change the sound, and some say that there is a difference between pickups that were scatter-wound and those that would neatly done. Modern OEM pickups are a often a compromise, machine scatter wound, so at least they now control the amount of wire used. Boutique (and now OEM) manufacturers have tried in various fashions to duplicate the good parts of the vintage sound while at the same time producing a more powerful single from the pickups. Hence designations like '57 Classic (supposed to duplicate the sound of the 1957 Gibson PAF, and the Hot B - same pickup with a few extra winds of wire on the coil. The number of turns, type of magnet and size of the wire used determines the pickup's sensivity and power.

 

Modern sound is louder, harder - more suitable to different types of rock (my opinion), while the vintage sound is softer, cleaner, more definition and clarity - more suitable to jazz and classical stuff. Either works both ways, just preference; and that's why we change them.

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hi-fi_Eric

hi-fi_Eric

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Thank you all so much - it is good to be in the presence of smart people :-) If it's not too much to ask, could you explain "18K" and "7K" for me... is that KHz and, if so, does that mean it is a center frequency or a cutoff frequency (or something else) for the pickup..? I am actually an electrical engineer by education and pretty tech-saavy but, obviously quite numb in the head as it relates to my new life adventure into the world of guitar. Your wisdom is truly appreciated!

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carverman

carverman

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FWIW' date=' hot bridge is about 13.6k[/quote']

 

Well "snookelputz" did do a very nice historical explanation and we applaud him for

that. [-(

 

You are right Ron. The Hot B (overwound bridge) is 13.92 Kohms according to my

digital multimeter, so that puts these p_ups at about 14K compared to 7.94K (8K) ohms

for the 57 classic on the neck. Not sure if the tag was misread as 57N (nickel) vs 57G (gold)

or there was some other designation...mine was 57H (G) and it was gold.

 

Although DC resistance is just one electrical factor on pickups, more windings generally indicate a hotter

or higher output with the same alnico magnet strength.

( 8k ohms is around 4800 ft of #42awg copper, while 14K would put

it around 8400 ft , if we use 1660 ohms per 1000 feet as the resistive nominal value. )

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Ron G

Ron G

Posted
Posted
Thank you all so much - it is good to be in the presence of smart people :-) If it's not too much to ask' date=' could you explain "18K" and "7K" for me... is that KHz and, if so, does that mean it is a center frequency or a cutoff frequency (or something else) for the pickup..? I am actually an electrical engineer by education and pretty tech-saavy but, obviously quite numb in the head as it relates to my new life adventure into the world of guitar. Your wisdom is truly appreciated![/quote']

 

I'll add one thing to my friends' already excellent explanations: The higher current

of hot/overwound pickups tends to push tube amps into overdrive moreso than

their less-hot counterparts, with some sacrifice of higher frequencies - very popular

with the shredding crowd.

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carverman

carverman

Posted
Posted
Thank you all so much - it is good to be in the presence of smart people :-) If it's not too much to ask' date=' could you explain "18K" and "7K" for me... is that KHz and, if so, does that mean it is a center frequency or a cutoff frequency (or something else) for the pickup..? I am actually an electrical engineer by education and pretty tech-saavy but, obviously quite numb in the head as it relates to my new life adventure into the world of guitar. Your wisdom is truly appreciated![/quote']

 

Permit me if you may. The topic of guitar pickups and their construction is a much discussed topic on this forum.

I'm a retired electrical engineer myself and I'm still learning about them. Besides the alinico magnet formulae,

there are certain proprietary secrets in the construction of pickups that manufacturers won't disclose and why

should they. The above values are the DC resistance of the #42awg copper wire (as fine as human hair) and

represents a value that corresponds to so many thousand feet of copper wire wound around a oblong bobbin

that sits on a bar magnet made of ALNiCo. If you want to understand a bit more of

the electrical characteristics of a pickup. best to visit this site:

 

http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/

 

The alnico magnet comes in several strengths and is (or was) the bog standard

magnet for pickups until recently with the advent of ceramic magnet material going

into use.

 

Here is a table for the alnico (the guass field strength last value may be of interest).

 

MGOe kJ/m3 kG mT Oe kA/m Oe kA/m %/°C %/°C °C °C g/cm3

Alnico 2 1.6 12.8 7.0 700 580 47 600 48 -0.03 -0.02 810 450 7.0

Alnico 3 1.2 10.0 6.0 600 480 38 500 40 -0.03 -0.02 810 450 6.9

Alnico 5 5.0 40.0 12.5 1250 640 51 640 51 -0.02 +0.02 860 525 7.3

 

Of course, X the unknown factor is the "mojo" that gives each pickup it's unique

sound or tone. Whether that can be attributed to scatter winding + normal winding

under wound/overwound , RWRP, the north pole coil or the south coil coil properties,

or some other factors, it's a well kept secret.

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carverman

carverman

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I'll add one thing to my friends' already excellent explanations: The higher current

of hot/overwound pickups tends to push tube amps into overdrive moreso than

their less-hot counterparts' date=' with some sacrifice of higher frequencies - very popular

with the shredding crowd.[/quote']

 

Right, but this applies more to active p_ups with built in preamps and 9volt batteries.

You get a LOT of output from these and they WILL drive most tube amp inputs into

overload/overdrive, but the beauty of the the 12ax7 twin triode (or it's industrial/European equivalent)

that is exclusively used in tube amps is all those soft even order harmonics due to compression in the

tubes transconductance characteristics which are still pleasant sounding to the ear.

Try the same with transistor stages and you might get clipping which results in harse odd harmonics (square waves).

 

As a general rule, I don't think that an Alnico 5 even overwound is going to have enough millivolt

output to overdrive a tube stage. If someone has some experience with that, then

I would like to hear about it.

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carverman

carverman

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Nickel? On an Epi pickup? Don't think so. 'Neck' makes more sense.

 

aw carumba! Well they do come in chrome (or what they might call nickel)

as well as gold. I questioned that myself initially.

 

I wish they would publish the p_up codes somewhere.

 

Here's the sticker on my LP Custom neck p_up:

F Epiphone stamped on the underside

57CH(G)

Dot:Neck,Bridge

LP: Neck

BHC

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