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calling nelson: lefty revolution casino? (factory, not a dressed-up MIK)

dubstar

By dubstar
in Epiphone Electrics

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duane v

duane v

Posted
Posted

I've been studying every detail of this particular guitar for close to 3 years, and though I'm not the expert of some of the other members here, everything looks authentic with exception of the trapeze tailpiece, and as stated by the seller in the item description, the dog ear pick up covers.

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charlie brown

charlie brown

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Yeah, he did say it was a project guitar, where the body was bought from epiphone, and he installed the hardware.

They do have "yard sales" at Gibson/Epiphone, now and then for these kinds of extra bodies, etc. There's another

fellow on the forum, with a similar project "Lennon" Casino. So, it seems "legit" in as far as the explanation goes.

There would not (of course) be the "case candy or "lennon" case, as a full production model would have. Nor the

warrenty...but he states that, so.... The correct "Nickel" pickup covers and tailpiece are available, if you look hard

enough. www.gibson.com (CS) would be a good start. They don't sell them, but can give you a part number, so

you could order them. And, there are other "on-line" dealers, as well. So...if you're a "lefty," and want/lust after

as "John Lennon Casino," it seems this could be a reasonable way to get one? But, as with any "sight unseen"

on line purchase, there's always (some) risk.

 

CB

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Nelson

Nelson

Posted
Posted
what are your thoughts on this? just curious' date=' I'm not considering a purchase...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/EPIPHONE-JOHN-LENNON-REVOLUTION-CASINO-LEFTY_W0QQitemZ280276066878QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/quote']

 

Sorry...I seem to have missed this post before..

 

It seems like lately there have been a few of these "un-completed" (if that's not a word I just made up a new word) Casinos bouncing around E Bay and it seems the original source was a "yard sale" that Epiphone had and it also seems that a few people have pieced these things together and are now offering them for sale....hmmmm.. I don't doubt that Epiphone had this "yard sale" (Gibson has done this in the past ) but what I wonder is why Epiphone blew them out so cheaply if it were only a matter of installing hardware and electronics to complete them ???? Epiphone has access to a lot more component parts than the guy on the street and could easily complete these guitars and offer them as refurbs or over-runs through MF or a similar outlet if they were actually just incomplete guitars. The incomplete guitar is how Epiphone receives the instruments for "final assembly" from Terada and if they were structurally sound with good neck sets etc I am puzzled why they weren't just finished and sold. Now, as these things become available I expect a mythology to develop about them..."Yoko sued because Epiphone went past the agreed 1,965 production so Epiphone couldn't sell any more of them" (ooops , I probably just gave an E Bay Bozo an idea...) or some other such nonsense but my spider senses tell me there's something more that's wrong with these guitars but I will be watching the progress of the ones posted here. For a hundred bucks if you put another five bills into it and it is a playable instruments you haven't lost anything and it is fun to do projects. I'm just rather dubious about the true origin and condition of these things and of the inevitable bullsh!t that will appear on E Bay when these jokers complete them with whatever crap parts they can find and then try to re-sell them. For a hundred bucks I would have done it but I certainly wouldn't pay $800+ for one of these guitars without fully knowing what was the deal that they were dumped off in a yard sale.

 

Oh, and for anyone buying one of these for a project I certainly wouldn't worry about paying premium prices for "vintage" parts because 1. it isn't going to make any difference from the readily available re-pro parts such as the ABR-1 bridge and trapeze tail piece as well as the Kluson machines (you will find it nearly impossible to find original nickel-covered Gibson P-90s at under five bills a set-so if you can find some with chrome covers for half that jump on them-then there are the Asian versions that are cheaper still) and 2. Vintage parts are intended to replace the original part on a vintage guitar and when someone sticks an expensive vintage part on a contemporary guitar and thinks anyone will notice an improvement he isn't using his brain. Do it cheap and enjoy your bargain...seriously when I heard that someone paid $150 for a two screw truss rod cover to put on a reissue instrument I almost took the ones I have on guitars off and put them on E Bay. That's just stupid. Sorry, but it is....and those two screw reissue covers are NOT available from Gibson whether through a dealer or not but there are a lot of the Asian three screw versions that come up on E Bay for around thirty bucks. Use them with three screws or if it bugs you that much fill the two holes and drill a new hole to make it a two hole. At any rate no one is going to think your guitar is vintage because it has a two screw cover. Have fun with it and you don't have to blow a lot of needless money to do that

 

Nelson

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dubstar

dubstar

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thanks for the comments and opinions, everyone...being a lefty, this caught my attention...I could understand a limited run

of 100 or so LH models, as Epiphone has offered upper level LH models before, such as the McCartney Texan, and at least two

Elitist LP finishes, but 6 LH Lennon Casinos as the seller claims? Seems a bit strange...

 

here's a thought...do you think for some reason the bodies came from Terada without holes drilled for the control knobs?

this would allow a buyer to make a lefty, even if epiphone never intended to offer one...probably a stupid thought, but who

knows...

 

I'm waiting for a McCartney Casino. But then would I get one in righty or lefty ; )

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Nelson

Nelson

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Posted
thanks for the comments and opinions' date=' everyone...being a lefty, this caught my attention...I could understand a limited run

of 100 or so LH models, as Epiphone has offered upper level LH models before, such as the McCartney Texan, and at least two

Elitist LP finishes, but 6 LH Lennon Casinos as the seller claims? Seems a bit strange...

 

[b']here's a thought...do you think for some reason the bodies came from Terada without holes drilled for the control knobs?

this would allow a buyer to make a lefty, even if epiphone never intended to offer one...probably a stupid thought, but who

knows...[/b]

 

I'm waiting for a McCartney Casino. But then would I get one in righty or lefty ; )

 

Not stupid at all. I don't know exactly what assembly processes are used by Epiphone in Nashville/Memphis to complete those guitars but that's very possible that someone got (or made) a template for a left-handed guitar and drilled their own holes creating a lefty on a guitar that hadn't yet been drilled out but I take all the E Bay stories with a grain of salt especially when I hear the words "limited edition"..."prototype"..."limited run"..."one-off"...Once, I came across an E Bay auction that actually (mis)quoted what I had posted here about the limited run Epiphone did of US-made guitars in 1993/1994 while trying to sell a Peerless-made 1994 Riviera. When I corrected him and told him what he actually had he responded that what he posted came "straight from Epiphone (actually my post verbatim)" and I didn't know what I was talking about...and someone paid $900 for a Korean-made Riviera as a result...and because E Bay protects these scoundrels I couldn't warn the buyer he was being screwed...and it was MY post that was the body of his auction description...

 

My friend/band mate's son is a lefty and plays guitar so I know how hard it is to find left-handed instruments. With acoustics there's the difference in bracing patterns and bridge angle to deal with and with electrics there's the bridge angle, pickup pole piece height and the reverse taper audio pots to deal with in any conversion. I think the lefty Casino is over-priced and I don't think it's any special limited run but if it turns out that it's a good guitar and suits you being a lefty those might be factors to consider that are game changers. I just have a lot of questions about this flood of incomplete guitars that has happened..mostly concerning what was actually wrong with them...many years back the "Nashville Dumpster Diver" was digging in Gibson's rubbish and gluing together rejected Gibsons and selling them on E Bay with a great story about them being " found in a barn near Nashville and possibly as old as the 1950's" only problem with that is they weren't making Gibson guitars in Nashville in the 1950's...but never let the truth stand in the way of a good story...the mantra of E Bay sellers everywhere.

 

Nelson

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TC5

TC5

Posted
Posted

This auction for a lefty:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280278325922&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr3_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=280276066878&itemcount=3&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m183&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DS%252BI%26itu%3DUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D3

 

Shows the same serial number (328393) as this auction for a righty:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280276059419&indexURL=7&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

 

Humm... Or maybe that's the model number and not the serial number...

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Nelson

Nelson

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Posted

Those are reissues of John Lennon's 1965 Kalamazoo-made Casino which had the serial number of 328393. The original Lennon reissues were serialized with _ of 1,965 but I don't know how the latest models are numbered since they long ago passed 1,965. All of the Lennon reissues have the headstock number of 328393. The original model number of the Kalamazoo Casino was E-230 with the alpha suffix of "T" to indicate a "thin line" model plus a "D" to indicate dual pickups if so equipped (there was a single pickup Casino with the nomenclature of E-230T).

 

Nelson

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Growler

Growler

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Posted

Those are reissues of John Lennon's 1965 Kalamazoo-made Casino which had the serial number of 328393. The original Lennon reissues were serialized with _ of 1' date='965 but I don't know how the latest models are numbered since they long ago passed 1,965. All of the Lennon reissues have the headstock number of 328393. The original model number of the Kalamazoo Casino was E-230 with the alpha suffix of "T" to indicate a "thin line" model plus a "D" to indicate dual pickups if so equipped (there was a single pickup Casino with the nomenclature of E-230T).

 

Nelson [/quote']

 

britney0yh5.jpg

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TC5

TC5

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Posted

Those are reissues of John Lennon's 1965 Kalamazoo-made Casino which had the serial number of 328393. The original Lennon reissues were serialized with _ of 1' date='965 but I don't know how the latest models are numbered since they long ago passed 1,965. All of the Lennon reissues have the headstock number of 328393. The original model number of the Kalamazoo Casino was E-230 with the alpha suffix of "T" to indicate a "thin line" model plus a "D" to indicate dual pickups if so equipped (there was a single pickup Casino with the nomenclature of E-230T).

 

Nelson [/quote']

 

Thanks for clarifying.

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duane v

duane v

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Posted

 

Do it cheap and enjoy your bargain...

 

I disagree' date=' and this is why:

 

When you have solid base, why not use the best parts available, whether they be vintage, or the original equipment that came with guitar. When you purchase a guitar bare, like the JL Revs that have been popping up around here lately, more than likely most people are not in a rush to have a functioning guitar. IMO, spare no expense.

 

 

seriously when I heard that someone paid $150 for a two screw truss rod cover to put on a reissue instrument I almost took the ones I have on guitars off and put them on E Bay. That's just stupid. Sorry, but it is....and those two screw reissue covers are NOT available from Gibson whether through a dealer or not but there are a lot of the Asian three screw versions that come up on E Bay for around thirty bucks. Use them with three screws or if it bugs you that much fill the two holes and drill a new hole to make it a two hole. At any rate no one is going to think your guitar is vintage because it has a two screw cover.

Nelson

 

Standing and accounted for:-$

I paid $175 for mine.... however it doesn't give me the feeling I have a vintage 1965, but I wanted a 1965 vintage component on my JL Rev that would signify the year JL received the guitar from Epiphone. And what better than a 1965 E logo TR-cover.

 

If I purchased a bare JL Rev guitar, it would have every piece of 1965 Casino hardware I could find... even if it took me 5 years to complete, and cost me $5k to do it.

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Nelson

Nelson

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Posted

 

Standing and accounted for:-$

I paid $175 for mine.... however it doesn't give me the feeling I have a vintage 1965' date=' but I wanted a 1965 vintage component on my JL Rev that would signify the year JL received the guitar from Epiphone. And what better than a 1965 E logo TR-cover.

 

If I purchased a bare JL Rev guitar, it would have every piece of 1965 Casino hardware I could find... even if it took me 5 years to complete, and cost me $5k to do it.[/quote']

 

If you can give me a clear-cut advantage to using "vintage" parts I'll agree with you but...The reason Kluson is no longer in business is because in actuality they weren't very good machine heads at the end (late 60's/early 70's) and people found that the Grovers and Schallers of the day were better so they started changing them out so the reproduction "Kluson-type" tuners from Grover, Gotoh and Ping are actually better than what was on Lennon's Casino originally with stronger alloys used for the gears that were notorious back then for stripping out. There's no real difference between the higher quality trapeze tail piece available from All-Parts(http://www.allparts.com/store/tailpieces-trapeze-tailpieces-tp-0410-010,Product.asp) to what was used on the old Gibsons . The cheaper one, yeah, it's not as good but the $45 one is nearly, if not identical. If you buy a modern nickel ABR-1 bridge I guarantee you won't be able to tell the difference from one from 1965 and if you think those white nylon saddles are anything but tone killers I can tell you different...let's put it this way, a few years back I obtained a sunburst 1965 Casino in a trade... 100% original and nearly pristine aside from some marks on the neck from rings that the previous woman owner had put there...the only mod I've made to the guitar, in fact it was made within twelve hours of getting the guitar.. was to replace those horrid saddles with a new ABR-1 bridge. The reason why the nylon saddles didn't continue is because they sound sucky and putting them on a modern guitar is again, isn't really that good of an idea. They do sell them so people can pretend they have something vintage but they don't add anything to the guitar's tone. ...and if you think you're going to get Lennon's "sound" using them you're also going to need some other toys like Fairchild valve compressors, Neumann U-87 mics and George Martin producing your recordings...it ain't just about the nylon saddles.

 

I really do think that the Terada-made Lennon Casinos and Terada-made Sheratons are some of the best guitars Epiphone has offered in the past fifteen years but...they are not American-made Epiphones and will never have the premium that the actual Kalamazoo Epiphone have. They are Japanese copes of American-made Epiphones.. albeit very nice copies. Your "base" is good...not great...and it is what it is and will never be anything else and dumping that stupid money into trying to make it a vintage guitar isn't the smartest move. I've been involved with vintage guitars for over thirty five years and I will attest that the idea that vintage is somehow always better is mythology. A set of late 50's PAF humbuckers will set you back $5K. Until last year I owned a '58 LP Custom with three of them and they didn't sound any at all better than the set of Gibson '57 Classics I put in my Norlin era LP Custom. Some PAFs do sound spectacular but they all don't. You say you bought a 1965 truss rod cover to honor the year John Lennon (which Lennon actually received in early 1966) got his...well, how do you know it's from 1965? and since there are three different Kalamazoo epsilon truss rod covers how do you know you got the one for a Casino (which is the in-between size of the three)..and again, since they were used from about 1961 until 1970 and again used on Japanese and American reissues how do you know what you have? Because a dealer on E Bay told you? You are a vintage dealer's dream because you really aren't spending your money very wisely. When you dump five bills into getting nickel- covered vintage P-90s do you honestly think you're getting better pickups than what's available for five bills from custom makers like Lollar and Duncan (not his department store line)? You do realize that as P-90s get old they lose strength in the magnets and can end up sounding weak and thin? My '65 is noticeably lower in output than my "bog standard" Terada-made " '65 Casino" (that was a sort of precursor to the Lennon reissues) and to me that bite and sparkle is what makes a P-90 a P-90.

 

It is your money and it is your prerogative but there's no need to spend senseless money to make a very decent guitar and even with the best component parts it's never going to rise above that certain level. Vintage dealers have become rich on people like you because they're under the very mistaken belief that there's always an advantage to those expensive vintage parts. If you had an actual '65 Casino and were bringing it back and restoring it , yeah, sure you're going to want the period-correct stuff but to think you can create a vintage or exceptional guitar using a modern Asian-made copy as a base and dumping a lot of money into it using vintage parts...I've got this bridge for sale..the kind over a river...

 

Nelson

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duane v

duane v

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Posted

 

If you can give me a clear-cut advantage to using "vintage" parts I'll agree with you but...The reason Kluson is no longer in business is because in actuality they weren't very good machine heads at the end (late 60's/early 70's) and people found that the Grovers and Schallers of the day were better so they started changing them out so the reproduction "Kluson-type" tuners from Grover' date=' Gotoh and Ping are actually better than what was on Lennon's Casino originally with stronger alloys used for the gears that were notorious back then for stripping out. There's no real difference between the higher quality trapeze tail piece available from All-Parts(http://www.allparts.com/store/tailpieces-trapeze-tailpieces-tp-0410-010,Product.asp) to what was used on the old Gibsons . The cheaper one, yeah, it's not as good but the $45 one is nearly, if not identical. If you buy a modern nickel ABR-1 bridge I guarantee you won't be able to tell the difference from one from 1965 and if you think those white nylon saddles are anything but tone killers I can tell you different...let's put it this way, a few years back I obtained a sunburst 1965 Casino in a trade... 100% original and nearly pristine aside from some marks on the neck from rings that the previous woman owner had put there...the only mod I've made to the guitar, in fact it was made within twelve hours of getting the guitar.. was to replace those horrid saddles with a new ABR-1 bridge. The reason why the nylon saddles didn't continue is because they sound sucky and putting them on a modern guitar is again, isn't really that good of an idea. They do sell them so people can pretend they have something vintage but they don't add anything to the guitar's tone. ...and if you think you're going to get Lennon's "sound" using them you're also going to need some other toys like Fairchild valve compressors, Neumann U-87 mics and George Martin producing your recordings...it ain't just about the nylon saddles.

 

I really do think that the Terada-made Lennon Casinos and Terada-made Sheratons are some of the best guitars Epiphone has offered in the past fifteen years but...they are not American-made Epiphones and will never have the premium that the actual Kalamazoo Epiphone have. They are Japanese copes of American-made Epiphones.. albeit very nice copies. Your "base" is good...not great...and it is what it is and will never be anything else and dumping that stupid money into trying to make it a vintage guitar isn't the smartest move. I've been involved with vintage guitars for over thirty five years and I will attest that the idea that [i']vintage[/i] is somehow always better is mythology. A set of late 50's PAF humbuckers will set you back $5K. Until last year I owned a '58 LP Custom with three of them and they didn't sound any at all better than the set of Gibson '57 Classics I put in my Norlin era LP Custom. Some PAFs do sound spectacular but they all don't. You say you bought a 1965 truss rod cover to honor the year John Lennon (which Lennon actually received in early 1966) got his...well, how do you know it's from 1965? and since there are three different Kalamazoo epsilon truss rod covers how do you know you got the one for a Casino (which is the in-between size of the three)..and again, since they were used from about 1961 until 1970 and again used on Japanese and American reissues how do you know what you have? Because a dealer on E Bay told you? You are a vintage dealer's dream because you really aren't spending your money very wisely. When you dump five bills into getting nickel- covered vintage P-90s do you honestly think you're getting better pickups than what's available for five bills from custom makers like Lollar and Duncan (not his department store line)? You do realize that as P-90s get old they lose strength in the magnets and can end up sounding weak and thin? My '65 is noticeably lower in output than my "bog standard" Terada-made " '65 Casino" (that was a sort of precursor to the Lennon reissues) and to me that bite and sparkle is what makes a P-90 a P-90.

 

It is your money and it is your prerogative but there's no need to spend senseless money to make a very decent guitar and even with the best component parts it's never going to rise above that certain level. Vintage dealers have become rich on people like you because they're under the very mistaken belief that there's always an advantage to those expensive vintage parts. If you had an actual '65 Casino and were bringing it back and restoring it , yeah, sure you're going to want the period-correct stuff but to think you can create a vintage or exceptional guitar using a modern Asian-made copy as a base and dumping a lot of money into it using vintage parts...I've got this bridge for sale..the kind over a river...

 

Nelson

 

 

well then I guess everyone should just purchase a used korean made Casino and call it a day, since it's your belief there's no significant gain in quality (which I completely disagree with).

 

I would have never owned an Epiphone if it wasn't for my pal having a JL Rev, which IMO is an upgrade in quality from the korean made Casinos, (though the Epi korean produced guitars are great for the price). If the opportunity hadn't presented itself to get my JL guitar in above average condition, I was on the verge of purchasing a Gretch Tennessee Rose, because I've been seeking a hollow body, especially since I don't have one, and I like the tone of hollow bodies in general.... (and not because I'm looking for the JL tone)

 

Now because of my JL Rev purchase, I'm now in hopes that some day Epiphone will release a Japanese made Crestwood, due to the wonderful quality I'm now experiencing.

 

I understand the point you're making, but I don't purchase two of the same type of guitars, even though I understand no two guitars sound alike. I like to personalize my guitars, even if it's at the risk of "vintage dealers having become rich on people like me," (well if purchasing a vintage E T-rod for $175) is making someone rich.

 

When I purchase a musical instrument, I want and look for specific attributes. This doesn't mean in any way, nor do I claim this is the blue-book for choosing or building a guitar. It just the route I would take if I was starting with a bare JL Rev.

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Nelson

Nelson

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Posted

 

 

well then I guess everyone should just purchase a used korean made Casino and call it a day' date=' since it's your belief there's no significant gain in quality (which I completely disagree with).

 

I would have never owned an Epiphone if it wasn't for my pal having a JL Rev, which IMO is an upgrade in quality from the korean made Casinos, (though the Epi korean produced guitars are great for the price). If the opportunity hadn't presented itself to get my JL guitar in above average condition, I was on the verge of purchasing a Gretch Tennessee Rose, because I've been seeking a hollow body, especially since I don't have one, and I like the tone of hollow bodies in general.... (and not because I'm looking for the JL tone)

 

Now because of my JL Rev purchase, I'm now in hopes that some day Epiphone will release a Japanese made Crestwood, due to the wonderful quality I'm now experiencing.

 

I understand the point you're making, but I don't purchase two of the same type of guitars, even though I understand no two guitars sound alike. I like to personalize my guitars, even if it's at the risk of "vintage dealers having become rich on people like me," (well if purchasing a vintage E T-rod for $175) is making someone rich.

 

When I purchase a musical instrument, I want and look for specific attributes. This doesn't mean in any way, nor do I claim this is the blue-book for choosing or building a guitar. It just the route I would take if I was starting with a bare JL Rev.

 

[/quote']

 

I think you're missing my point. You can make a fabulous guitar, far superior, to a standard Korean/Chinese model and arguably equal and possibly even superior to an actual vintage model without using a single vintage part. The whole basis of the vintage parts market is the misconception that you can buy "vintage vibe" or that there's some magic to old parts. The magic was in the sum of the parts being greater than the parts alone and those extraordinary instruments in guitar history were often happy accidents so even putting together all the vintage parts and doing a complete reverse engineering job on a guitar isn't going to re-create that in the moment magic that sometimes happened. If you want a vintage instrument buy a vintage instrument.

 

If I were you I'd take your base guitar and first I'd buy some of the current "Kluson Deluxe" brand tuners (that are actually made by Ping I believe-I've put them on two of my guitars and I am VERY fussy about the idea of using Asian anything).. or a similar higher-end Kluson type from Grover or Gotoh and you're only looking at maybe fifty bucks...you already have the truss rod cover...I'd look into some custom-wound p-90s understanding in advance that nickel covers are going to be difficult to find but chrome are a bit more available...$250-$350 for the pickups plus maybe another $100 for vintage chrome covers..plus CTS pots, buck a pop, period correct ceramic disc caps, a Switchcraft switch and output jack and that makes it about $550 for your electronics, another $65 for a Gibson ABR-1 bridge, $45 for a high quality, machined trapeze tailpiece, maybe another thirty five-forty for a pickguard and bracket...less if you can fore go spending $15 on a logo for it.... so for about the cost of a refurb reissue, you have a guitar with superior to Kalamazoo electronics and hardware and you've used vintage-style stuff so you still have the vintage look without the pathetic pretension of dumping a lot of money on actual vintage crap that unless you know what you're doing you will be ripped off. You can have an extraordinary guitar without the foolish wasting of your money. If you put really good pickups in what is already a pretty good body you'll already be way ahead of anything...you're not going to give a modern guitar vintage vibe and you're certainly not going to fool anyone by using the vintage parts.

 

Look, I've got a '65 Casino, it's a good guitar and I do like it but I got it in an even-up trade for a '65 Riviera I'd had since 1971 that was worth maybe $2200 at the time of the trade. Why would I get rid of a guitar that I'd had and used extensively for thirty some years, was quite fond of and had a strong bond? Because I also had two modern '93 USA reissue Rivieras that I actually liked more so modern trumped vintage. As much as I like the Casino, I wouldn't pay $5K for one under any circumstances. The major reason for the Casino's premium is the Beatle connection and it's no secret that the Beatles were not gear heads and especially not Lennon so their selection of instruments wasn't based on any extraordinary knowledge or insight into guitars. I like the Beatles and I own a few of what could be considered Beatles instruments (Casino, Texan, 500/1)but I would never pay a premium based upon them using the same instrument.

 

My second "real" guitar back in 1969 was a mid 60's Crestwood Custom that was part of the trade that brought me the Riviera in about 1971 and of all the guitars I've ever had the Crestwood is one of a very few I regret getting rid of so that's a model I am also very interested in seeing made at the Japanese level of quality

 

I'm just trying to tell you that you can have a fantastic guitar without being a sucker for the vintage market stuff. Have fun and and by all means make each guitar your own but $175 for a truss rod cover?...Hey, I spent once $1200 on a custom Remington rifle to go deer hunting one time only to discover I have no desire to kill animals (I'll leave that to whacked- out scary Alaskan women lol), I just like walking in the woods while being heavily armed and wearing camo...and I'm never going to get what I have in the gun out so we've all done stuff like that...

 

Nelson

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duane v

duane v

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Posted

 

I think you're missing my point. You can make a fabulous guitar' date=' far superior, to a standard Korean/Chinese model and arguably equal and possibly even superior to an actual vintage model without using a single vintage part. The whole basis of the vintage parts market is the misconception that you can buy "vintage vibe" or that there's some magic to old parts. The magic was in the sum of the parts being greater than the parts alone and those extraordinary instruments in guitar history were often happy accidents so even putting together all the vintage parts and doing a complete reverse engineering job on a guitar isn't going to re-create that [i']in the moment magic[/i] that sometimes happened. If you want a vintage instrument buy a vintage instrument.

 

If I were you I'd take your base guitar and first I'd buy some of the current "Kluson Deluxe" brand tuners (that are actually made by Ping I believe-I've put them on two of my guitars and I am VERY fussy about the idea of using Asian anything).. or a similar higher-end Kluson type from Grover or Gotoh and you're only looking at maybe fifty bucks...you already have the truss rod cover...I'd look into some custom-wound p-90s understanding in advance that nickel covers are going to be difficult to find but chrome are a bit more available...$250-$350 for the pickups plus maybe another $100 for vintage chrome covers..plus CTS pots, buck a pop, period correct ceramic disc caps, a Switchcraft switch and output jack and that makes it about $550 for your electronics, another $65 for a Gibson ABR-1 bridge, $45 for a high quality, machined trapeze tailpiece, maybe another thirty five-forty for a pickguard and bracket...less if you can fore go spending $15 on a logo for it.... so for about the cost of a refurb reissue, you have a guitar with superior to Kalamazoo electronics and hardware and you've used vintage-style stuff so you still have the vintage look without the pathetic pretension of dumping a lot of money on actual vintage crap that unless you know what you're doing you will be ripped off. You can have an extraordinary guitar without the foolish wasting of your money. If you put really good pickups in what is already a pretty good body you'll already be way ahead of anything...you're not going to give a modern guitar vintage vibe and you're certainly not going to fool anyone by using the vintage parts.

 

Look, I've got a '65 Casino, it's a good guitar and I do like it but I got it in an even-up trade for a '65 Riviera I'd had since 1971 that was worth maybe $2200 at the time of the trade. Why would I get rid of a guitar that I'd had and used extensively for thirty some years, was quite fond of and had a strong bond? Because I also had two modern '93 USA reissue Rivieras that I actually liked more so modern trumped vintage. As much as I like the Casino, I wouldn't pay $5K for one under any circumstances. The major reason for the Casino's premium is the Beatle connection and it's no secret that the Beatles were not gear heads and especially not Lennon so their selection of instruments wasn't based on any extraordinary knowledge or insight into guitars. I like the Beatles and I own a few of what could be considered Beatles instruments (Casino, Texan, 500/1)but I would never pay a premium based upon them using the same instrument.

 

My second "real" guitar back in 1969 was a mid 60's Crestwood Custom that was part of the trade that brought me the Riviera in about 1971 and of all the guitars I've ever had the Crestwood is one of a very few I regret getting rid of so that's a model I am also very interested in seeing made at the Japanese level of quality

 

I'm just trying to tell you that you can have a fantastic guitar without being a sucker for the vintage market stuff. Have fun and and by all means make each guitar your own but $175 for a truss rod cover?...Hey, I spent once $1200 on a custom Remington rifle to go deer hunting one time only to discover I have no desire to kill animals (I'll leave that to whacked- out scary Alaskan women lol), I just like walking in the woods while being heavily armed and wearing camo...and I'm never going to get what I have in the gun out so we've all done stuff like that...

 

Nelson

 

There are some points I agree, but there are other points you make I just have a completely different view, (you can label it "pathetic" or whatever adjective you like). I don't sell or trade my guitars, and with each guitar I own represents a different point in time during the course of my life, so for me it does recreate a certain amount magic.

 

Once I purchase a guitar, I don't reflect on the money spent, nor do they become long term projects for me, mainly because I'm a player.

 

In the end, nobody should buy / build a guitar because of the way I or you feel. Granted we all have different opinions on how we approach a guitar, however one opinion or approach is no better than the other.

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Guest Jubaea

Guest Jubaea

Posted
Posted

Hi,

 

O:) First, excuse my English very school, but at least, I try.

 

I'm French, and I recently bought one of these guitars. Now, I have 3 Epi Casino, a JL Revolution I bought in 2004, and an Elitist Sunburst Casino I bought last year. See my avatar.

This JL 1965 Casino is my third, I had not planned to buy it, but...

 

:-k Three Casino ? You must think I'm crazy, I can say yes, I'm crazy about this guitar.

 

So, for me it's very clear, I'll finish it with Gibson news parts. My project is to make, for me, [-X not for sale, a very good and nice guitar, not particularly a vintage one.

 

Does anyone can be sure which manufactured the body and neck of this guitar? Japan and USA?

 

Inevitably, I am in search for a Truss Rod Cover, does anyone can tell me where I can found one?

 

For those interested, I add that this guitar has the blue label in the body, it was the only guitar on five guitars for sale to have ](*,)' . She hasn't the white label with a number xxxx of 1965, which is normal.

It has all the holes, ready to mount, in fact.

 

Thanks to all

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frenchie1281734003

frenchie1281734003

Posted
Posted
Hi' date='

 

O:) First, excuse my English very school, but at least, I try.

 

I'm French, and I recently bought one of these guitars. Now, I have 3 Epi Casino, a JL Revolution I bought in 2004, and an Elitist Sunburst Casino I bought last year. See my avatar.

This JL 1965 Casino is my third, I had not planned to buy it, but...

 

:-k Three Casino ? You must think I'm crazy, I can say yes, I'm crazy about this guitar.

 

So, for me it's very clear, I'll finish it with Gibson news parts. My project is to make, for me, [-X not for sale, a very good and nice guitar, not particularly a vintage one.

 

Does anyone can be sure which manufactured the body and neck of this guitar? Japan and USA?

 

Inevitably, I am in search for a Truss Rod Cover, does anyone can tell me where I can found one?

 

For those interested, I add that this guitar has the blue label in the body, it was the only guitar on five guitars for sale to have ](*,) . She hasn't the white label with a number xxxx of 1965, which is normal.

It has all the holes, ready to mount, in fact.

 

Thanks to all

 

Hi Jubaea.

 

I wouldn`t class you as crazy, but then I have three Casino`s too!.

 

The necks and bodies of these guitars are/were manufactured in the Terada Factory (Japan), and owing to the fact that they also make the Nitro finished Gretsch guitars in the same place, it has crossed my mind that maybe they are finished there as well, before being shipped to the U.S. where they are then finished out with U.S. electrics and Gibson pickups, and then set up, before that little "Assembled in the U.S.A." sticker is added.

 

As for the Truss rod cover, the three screw one is easier to come by, but I like the two screw one better. Have you thought of making one, it`s not that hard!. You could use your other TRC as a template, buy some modellers plastic card in shiny Black and White. Glue together with liquid Poly, lay your original TRC on top and draw around the outline , and mark the screw holes out with a fine pencil. Now the tricky part, form the Epsilon "E" by shaping a piece of .30 white plasic card cut to shape and slightly undersize. When happy lay this in the right position on your new marked out truss rod cover, draw around it in fine pencil (so it will need to be slightly undersized). When done, carefully paint in the "E" using an extra fine White paint pen (these are permanent, Pilot super color is what I used) you may need to do this twice or touch up some of it, so it may look and feel a little rough(But don`t worry). Next drill out your two pencil marked holes using Modellers mini hand held drill and bit, then cut out your new TRC almost to size using a sharp craft knife and a Steel rule (Best to use lots of light strokes and keep just outside the line). Then use Small files to get final shape right, not forgetting to splay the outside edge. Once happy with that, lightly rub over your painted "E" with fine wire wool, this will cut the White back, making it look uniform, and you should be more than happy with the finished result. If you think this is too daunting or time consuming ( I actually made one in three hours, although I glued the plastic card together two days before, and kept it under heavy weight, using large guitar reference books) I am more than willing to make one for you, just send me a PM (Private message) stating your name and address, and I`ll get one off to you within a week. There is no charge, just happy to help.

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