Epiphone Les Paul Custom Ebony, Is It Fake?

[AyushPresley]

I really hope you are kidding.

 

I guess he is kidding.... man look at all those fakes out there.....:D

[antwhi2001]

I'm finding this intriguing. As most will have seen on the other thread, I too bought a Custom from the same unauthorised dealer.

 

Unfortunately I can't post headstock pics for direct comparison because I've already heavily modified mine. What I can say for sure is that the headstock on this one is quite different to mine. The position of the diamond "inlay" on mine was dead centre and there was a gap of at least 1.5 cm between the bottom of the diamond and the top of the TRC.

Also, the distance between the nut and the tuners for the "e" strings is about 50% greater on mine. The whole headstock on mine looks to have been about 2.5 cm longer. And, when you look at the pic on the official Epi website, his looks closer...

 

 

 

Although I've reshaped the sides and removed wood from the top of the headstock, I didn't bother moving the location of the tuners. The distance between the nut and the tuners is so different between mine and Renegades that you have to at least doubt that they were made at the same factory around the same time.

[generation zero]

Yes, I was kidding, LOL... I found those while trying to find an inexpensive Gibson style lefty V for a buddy of mine. Not necessarily a copy per se, just something other than a Dean or an acrylic Galveston, LOL. He'd love something in a burst finish, but lefty pickings are slim in the flying V category. I may have to build him one from warwick parts...

[RenegadeMaster]

Just so everyone is aware, it is a fake

 

I took it to my local guitar guru, a man who has been playing guitar for 40 years

Selling them for 20, and building them for 15, I didn't give him any prompt

I just told him I was going to a gig, and needed the neck adjusting etc.

When I returned he brought up the issue, the way he spotted it was the groovers.

 

He did however mention that it was a very high end fake lol.... And he said anyone

but an experienced guitar player would not be able to spot the subtleties, so well done

to thoughs who thought it was a fake However after playing it and considering the price

And playing a genuine Epiphone Les Paul Custom, I am actually very satisfied with the product :)

 

Thank you to everyone who helped, and I am sorry for my skepticism, but whenever tackling

a problem, or asking a question, I try to think clearly and concisely about the answer, I respected

and took in everyones insight :) Thank you all, and if anyone wants to suggest what I should do to pursue

this matter, I'd be happy to hear your suggestions

[MarxBros]

Just so everyone is aware' date=' it is a fake

 

I took it to my local guitar guru, a man who has been playing guitar for 40 years

Selling them for 20, and building them for 15, I didn't give him any prompt

I just told him I was going to a gig, and needed the neck adjusting etc.

When I returned he brought up the issue, the way he spotted it was the groovers.

 

He did however mention that it was a very high end fake lol.... And he said anyone

but an experienced guitar player would not be able to spot the subtleties, so well done

to thoughs who thought it was a fake However after playing it and considering the price

And playing a genuine Epiphone Les Paul Custom, I am actually very satisfied with the product :)

 

Thank you to everyone who helped, and I am sorry for my skepticism, but whenever tackling

a problem, or asking a question, I try to think clearly and concisely about the answer, I respected

and took in everyones insight :) Thank you all, and if anyone wants to suggest what I should do to pursue

this matter, I'd be happy to hear your suggestions[/quote']There's really nothing you can do, you took the chance, you pay the price. AS I stated earlier these are probably being made in a modern china facility that turns out someting like the Jay Tursers and other countless brands. In reality I wouldn't expect a huge difference in the guitars other than the pups being muddier than usual and an overall cheaper build quality.

[pohatu771]

Did your luthier tell you exactly what these "subtle differences" are?

 

Just out of curiosity - see what we spotted, and see what we missed.

[antwhi2001]

Nother bit of info on mine. When I was sawing the top of the headstock with a jigsaw I wasn't really looking at the "m.o.p. inlay". I just checked my workshop (ok, it's my garage!) floor and found a piece. The front face of the headstock was a thin, rigid plastic overlay with the "m.o.p." printed on. It's stuck to the wood with a strong adhesive.

 

Of course, we still don't know if mine is "real" EE production.

[tflanster]

However, on the matter of Renegade's last picture of the back of the headstock, I disagree that the tuners are out on his guitar. If you look at all his photos on page 1 of the thread, you'll see they are all taken from an angle to the left and from above. Secondly, if you look at the headstock rear shot, a good bit of the gold you see at the top of each grover is actually reflection on to the black finish caused by the flash shining from above and to the left. This has made the bottom tuners, in particular, appear twisted. Thirdly, you'll see that there are scratches all over the middle of his camera which appear as streaks which may further distort the image. I would say the photo was taken on a camera phone which has been in and out of his pocket quite a bit. Lastly, if you look at the sweetwater pic, the grovers on this aren't perfectly symetrical either. This shot looks to have been taken slightly from the left too. However, my conclusion is that it is the angle of the shot, coupled with the flash reflecting gold on to black that is giving the tuners on Renegade's LP the appearance of being twisted.

 

 

I'm not an expert by any measure but I do have an actual LP. I compare only the tuners in the pic of the back of the headstock to my LP and they aren't even close to a correct match. You can guess forever about shadows and reflections but simply by looking at the tuners its obvious that they're shoddily assembled. The tuners on my LP are perfectly aligned vertically and horizontally, and are exactly the same distance from the top of the headstock. The tuners in the pic are crooked and misaligned. This is not a quality instrument. It's either a blem or a fake. I can't imagine it being a blem though. The assembly errors are simply too far off for Epi or Gibson to allow it to go to market.

[V-Type]

I have a 2003 MIK LPC in Black just like the one in Renegades first posts.

My truss cover says Gibson and runs right up to the bottom of the split diamond.

The truss cover also isnt the standard bell shape. It infact has about a 1/4 inch of flap below the screw hole locations.

However mine is completely legit as I bought it from GC and my Luthier/Tech gave it his seal of approval after his Pro setup.

From what Ive gathered the earlier 2000 models varied a bit when it comes too truss rod covers and tuners,etc...

Also of note you should still have the open book Gibson head stock shape even with the corner notches gone.

I still think the OP's guitar is legit IMO.

[Growler]

Just so everyone is aware' date=' it is a fake[/quote']

I still think the OP's guitar is legit IMO.

 

 

[RenegadeMaster]

There is a TINY bit of black on the white part of the body, he said this was from spraying the body and some

of the tape coming off, and he said this wouldn't have got through an Epiphone check

He also mentioned the frets, he said at the edge they are very sharp and Epiphone use cotton wool

to dull them, however he didn't mention many things you did, I personally think the Epiphone sign

and the diamond inlay aren't part of it as he didn't mention it and I have seen some that are

as close to the truss rod as mine, he also mentioned the shape of the groovers aswell as the alignment,

This was the main thing for him, he mentioned that Epiphone wasn't stamped where you guys said it should be

but he did say the fact it was on the humbuckers means that these copies are getting better. I've just been to a very

big guitar place today with a huge variety and I had a go of some of the Customs, sound wise, mine is very close,

Infact mine is close in a huge variety of aspects, I actually preferred mine to some of the customs on sale.

But I think the lesson here is if it sounds too good to be true, it is, Simple as :)

Once again though, thank you everyone for your help, I do appreciate it :)

[MelodyMaker1]

I have a 2003 MIK LPC in Black just like the one in Renegades first posts.

My truss cover says Gibson and runs right up to the bottom of the split diamond.

Also of note you should still have the open book Gibson head stock shape even with the corner notches gone.

I still think the OP's guitar is legit IMO.

 

Where have you been, it's over and done. It's fake. But, if Renegade is happy, so am I. Some of you should really bone up on what a counterfeit Epi looks like. Or, maybe I should say what a real Epi looks like. Because that guitar wasn't even close. IMHO

[RenegadeMaster]

I don't agree, I think the biggest issue everyone had was the headstock and this wasn't the most obvious fake feature

I have seen genuine customs with headstocks close to mine, I think it is quite a subtle fake to be honest

[MelodyMaker1]

I don't agree' date=' I think the biggest issue everyone had was the headstock and this wasn't the most obvious fake feature

I have seen genuine customs with headstocks close to mine, I think it is quite a subtle fake to be honest[/quote']

 

Okay, dude. If you say so. Peace bro.

[Guest alanhindle]

OK I owe everyone a big apology, as I said I would if proven wrong. I was convinced it was the angles, the flash and the low picture resolutions that were making the headstock look dodgy.

 

However, I really would like to see some higher quality daylight photos though Renegade, in order that we can see these subtle differences for ourselves. I think it will be a very useful learning curve for many of us.

 

BTW, are you now going to report the seller to the police? He shouldn't get away with this.

 

If you right click on one of MZ online's pics and look at properties the url includes a site called jarlonline which can be found at:

http://www.bizearch.com/company/JARL_322019.htm

 

This gives contact details as follows:

Contact Person Mr JIA ZENG

Address Aston Street, Birmingham, United Kingdom

Zip Code B4 7EG

Telephone 44 7886 081634

Mobile

Fax 44 1231 124124

Website JARL, http://www.bizearch.com/company/JARL_322019.htm

 

Is this where it came from (and Ant also)?

 

I'm sure the police and/or Epiphone would be very interested to have this information.

 

Alan

[Ron G]

I think Renegade should confront the guy.......and bring home some hot & sour soup.

[caulkhead]

Hi guys first post for me. I'm a fairly recent owner of a Korean Sheraton II natural. I've been following this thread with worry and looking over the net, it seems there are a hell of a lot of fakes out there.

 

This link shows Epiphone custom guitars on Ebay

 

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__epiphone-custom_W0QQQ5ftrkparmsZ72Q253A1298Q257C66Q253A2Q257C65Q253A12Q257C39Q253A1QQ_dmptZUKQ5fMusicalQ5fInstrumentsQ5fGuitarsQ5fCVQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ_sopZ1QQ_scZ1

 

if you have a look through you'll see most feature the same text in the ads although they are from different sellers but all these different sellers appear to be based in Birmingham. The guitars for sale all tie up with the MZonline ones as well. Looks like a pretty large operation cloaked by using numerous selling identities. It's horrible to think that all these buyers are being ripped off.

 

I wouldn't mind if it was an honest ad for Epiphone 'style' guitars but the ads go on and on about 100% authenticity, checkable serial numbers and the offer of collection in person to fool people into thinking they are reputable. Whoever is running this outfit thinks he's got it all sewn up.

 

I hope someone can flag this thread up to the manufacturers or the authorities as this needs to be stopped.

[AyushPresley]

IMO there isn't much we buyers can do other than not buy these fakes and learn how to spot fakes. That "Black Ugly" of renegade's was a fake and it took nearly 6 pages of discussion to get to the conclusion. You can see how these fakes are getting closer and closer to the real thing. There are lots of these lying around in Ebay and other sites like some of us had shown. What else could we do other than reporting these to the manufactures ??

[generation zero]

I'd be scared to involve the police personally, on the chance they may impound the guitar as evidence. Not sure what your legal rights and entitlements would be at that point, you might have to file a civil suit to get your money back, plus damages. If it went that way, you might end up with enough to buy a real one and have some cash left over... But more likely, you'd just get your money back and end up without a guitar at all. Aside from reporting the seller to epiphone, if you're happy with the guitar, I would leave well enough alone.

[V-Type]

 

Where have you been' date=' it's over and done. It's fake. But, if Renegade is happy, so am I. Some of you should really bone up on what a counterfeit Epi looks like. Or, maybe I should say what a real Epi looks like. Because that guitar wasn't even close. IMHO

 

[/quote']

Okay Then. Thanks for Clarifying that.

[pohatu771]

I think the biggest problem we're facing right now as far as fakes go is that it's entirely possible for a guitar the managers at Qing Dao mark as a second to be "destroyed" by a factory worker, and then shipped to some American (or other) looking for a deal.

 

It's entirely possible that Renegade's guitar is authentic, but didn't meet the standards and was "destroyed." I don't know if that's the Qing Dao factory's policy, as it is Gibson's, to destroy all unfit guitars. In that case, it may very well be a real Epiphone that Gibson never got paid for.

[pohatu771]

x

[RenegadeMaster]

Yeah to be honest due to the sound quality and the fact that cosmetically it isn't too far off I think

there is a chance it is one that didn't get through the factory check rather then a fake, I don't know

though, but to be honest, when my girlfriend went out last night, I had a nice couple of hours with it

(She still doesn't know I've snook it out!) on my Vox amp (That Marshall one you guys saw is in the spare

room, in which my girlfriends brother frequently stays) and I actually loved the guitar to be honest

Pretty much spot on with the sound, and heck it pretty much nearly exactly looks like one, I am not complaining :)

[AyushPresley]

Hey if it sounds and plays right It wouldn't be a headache !! :)/

[RenegadeMaster]

I sent them an email and this is what I got back, see what you guys think

 

Hello *****

 

Would you please provide your transaction ID (googlecheck transaction number), we will have a look for you, we have numbers of supplier who ship out our order directly from their end, if we confirm that they did ship out a fake guitar to you, we will either refund you in full (you return the guitar back) or compensate through partial refund.

 

Kind Regards

 

Frank

 

2008-12-22

Mzonline.co.uk

???: ***** ********

????: 2008-12-20 14:43:54

???: sales@mzonline.co.uk

??:

??:

 

I purchased an Epiphone Les Paul Custom off you last month, And after a lot of verification

from people who know a lot about guitars, It has came to the conclusion that you have

definitely sold me a fake, a very very good fake, I will give you that, but I did not want

to be fooled into buying a fake, I can get written verification from an authorized Epiphone

dealer that you sold me a fake Epiphone guitar which will then be passed on to

Epiphone or directly to Gibson and your website will be reported, unless you are

prepared to compensate me for this mishap