MelodyMaker1 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 The headstock inlay is off center, the tuners are started to low on the headstock. And their spacing is off. Dude, that's a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 This is a photo of the inside of an Epiphone control cavity. Epiphone aren't known for having the cleanest cavities, so you can't exactly use the wiring as a sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Just noticed a huge difference in the nut too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeMaster Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 What am I looking for when I'm scratching the paint? But anyways I will not be doing anything like that until I actually receive it Christmas day, but I do believe alot of what people are saying Can actually be explained by the angle, Angle does change how things appear, and what did someone mean by 2nd? 2nd hand, I wouldn't really mind that, as it was pretty flauntless But I think the best thing for me to do is to take a picture straight on, so you can actually judge as I think angle would definitely effect what some of you are saying, plus the fact you are all looking for faults does change things I feel, I do value everyones input though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 ....until I actually receive it Christmas day WTF ???!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeMaster Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Haha Yeah I asked my girlfriend to buy me it for Christmas, and give her the site, and I found where she hid it, I'm evil I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 On the other forum (I believe) someone said that the upper left triange on the inlay looked wrong - and it does. It's not angled the same as the others. If the angle of the photo was effecting it, it would effect all of them. It also wouldn't make the inlay appear too big or off-center. When you scratch the paint, you're essentially looking for anything that isn't solid wood - plywood or particle board. A genuine Les Paul should have one piece of mahogany with a maple cap. The quality of that wood will vary, but it will never been plywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 When you scratch the paint' date=' you're essentially looking for anything that isn't solid wood - plywood or particle board. A genuine Les Paul should have one piece of mahogany with a maple cap. [/quote'] Not even on Gibsons. :-) Several slabs(3 or 4) of Asian mahogany. covered with 2 paperthin veneers. African mahogany on the back, maple on the top. If they have a cap, it's either 2 or 3 pieces of maple or alder. Covered with the nice(tigerstripe-, quilted-, flame-)maple veneer. There have been some reports on solid caps, but they have been rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Not even on Gibsons. :-) Several slabs(3 or 4) of Asian mahogany. covered with 2 paperthin veneers. African mahogany on the back' date=' maple on the top. If they have a cap, it's either 2 or 3 pieces of maple or alder. Covered with the nice(tigerstripe-, quilted-, flame-)maple veneer. There have been some reports on solid caps, but they have been rare.[/quote']Alright, I was wrong about that. But it still shouldn't be plywood or particle board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 What am I looking for when I'm scratching the paint? But anyways I will not be doing anything like thatuntil I actually receive it Christmas day' date=' but I do believe alot of what people are saying Can actually be explained by the angle, Angle does change how things appear, and what did someone mean by 2nd? 2nd hand, I wouldn't really mind that, as it was pretty flauntless But I think the best thing for me to do is to take a picture straight on, so you can actually judge as I think angle would definitely effect what some of you are saying, plus the fact you are all looking for faults does change things I feel, I do value everyones input though[/quote'] I don't see the problem...Pohatu771 put pictures of the two headstocks side by side for you...you can see for yourself there are a lot of differences, for two supposedly identical guitars by the same manufacturer, of the same vintage. You can also see that Ant's headstock is the same as the one in the picture from the Sweetwater site, which I posted earlier. I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, I am sure that you want this guitar to be genuine (all of us on this forum want that to be the case too, I assure you). But it just isn't. By "2nd" I meant imperfect. These guitars, which Epiphone won't sell through their authorized dealers, sometimes find their way out of the factory door, and are sold through other dealers (usually on e-bay). Often they have the serial number scratched off, or are embossed "used" on the back of the headstock. But I don't think yours is a 2nd. It doesn't look imperfect. It just looks wrong. That headstock is a mile out... Sorry mate, I think it's a fake. Move fast and try and get your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 By "2nd" I meant imperfect. These guitars' date=' which Epiphone won't sell through their authorized dealers[/quote']Correction: I (and many others) have an authorized, fully-warranteed Epiphone factory 2nd (stamped "2nd" on the back of the headstock). These are often listed as "B Stock" items at the major online retailers. I believe you were referring to a factory reject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLesPaul2006 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Dude its real stop worrying about it. I would be surprised if that was a fake. But if your really that worried about it take it to an authorized dealer and compare it to one that they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I think I agree with the other guys mate, its not looking like an original. What you need to ask yourself though, how much do you care? If it plays well and sounds good, well then thats a lot! I have played some dreadful Epiphones (and Gibsons) over the years. I also ended up with a fake Dot off Ebay. It wasn't obvious at first, but the headstock and logo gave it away...HOWEVER, it played like a dream and the pickups sounded a lot better than some of the stock pickups found on some Epiphones. I eventually got rid of it because the truss rod wasn't in the centre of the neck when I removed the cover. I now have an authentic Dot, but it has had new pickups and a full setup. Ironically, the fake didn't need any of these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Dude its real stop worrying about it. I would be surprised if that was a fake. But if your really that worried about it take it to an authorized dealer and compare it to one that they have. The biggest issue there is that there is no authorised Epiphone dealer in Britain, as far as I know. It would involve a trip to mainland Europe. As I've said, I'd much prefer to tell you that your guitar is real, but I see too many errors to say that honestly. I'm not convinced. The website does list a "100% satisfaction guarantee," so you should have no problem returning it - but you'll have to come up with another few hundred quid to buy a guaranteed genuine example. I ran the numbers, and what you paid for this actually comes out to less than Americans pay for a Les Paul Standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Correction: I (and many others) have an authorized' date=' fully-warranteed Epiphone factory 2nd (stamped "2nd" on the back of the headstock). These are often listed as "B Stock" items at the major online retailers. I believe you were referring to a factory reject.[/quote'] Sorry Ron, I stand corrected. I didn't know they did that (I mean, I didn't know the 2nds were authorized and sold through Guitar Center or whatever.) I always figured B stock were Guitar Center's own display models or returns... Oh well...you learn something every day. Still - 2nd or factory reject - our man has neither, IMHO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Still - 2nd or factory reject - our man has neither' date=' IMHO...[/quote']I think the technical term is "ripoff". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Sorry Ron' date=' I stand corrected. I didn't know they did that (I mean, I didn't know the 2nds were authorized and sold through Guitar Center or whatever.) I always figured B stock were Guitar Center's own display models or returns... Oh well...you learn something every day. Still - 2nd or factory reject - our man has neither, IMHO...[/quote'] I got my ebony 2nd Sheraton through MusiciansFriend. I did see a battered Dot at a GC. The last thing on earth you want to do is bump a poly finish against something hard. Think: exploding windshield. That is enough to make lacquer worth the extra cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 The Custom logo is way near the truss rod cover and in fact in your case touching the truss rod cover..and the logo now when compared side by side looks way off the track. the "h" in the epiphone is pretty straight when it's supposed to be angled a bit and the "E" is much thicker..Epi's wouldn't make such a huge difference/mistake. I would say "RipOff" send it back while you still can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alanhindle Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I believe the guitar is genuine. Look at this headstock taken from the website of the reputable EU retailer, Thomann (you need to click on the thumbnails on the top right of the webpage to see the headstock. On the Thomann pics, the Epiphone logo is completely different again. Thomann: http://www.thomann.de/gb/epiphone_les_paul_custom_black.htm Sweetwater: http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/electric/all/sEE080501462/ So, who are selling the fakes, Thomann or Sweetwater? Another thing- Why would anyone go to this much trouble to fake an Epiphone? A £2000 Gibson LP custom, yes....but not an Epiphone. Surely an Epiphone fake would have to be based on something like a 'no name' £100 Les Paul copy which would be very very easy to spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelodyMaker1 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I believe the guitar is genuine. Look at this headstock taken from the website of the reputable EU retailer' date=' Thomann (you need to click on the thumbnails on the top right of the webpage to see the headstock. On the Thomann pics, the Epiphone logo is completely different again. Thomann: http://www.thomann.de/gb/epiphone_les_paul_custom_black.htm Sweetwater: http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/electric/all/sEE080501462/ So, who are selling the fakes, Thomann or Sweetwater? Another thing- Why would anyone go to this much trouble to fake an Epiphone? A £2000 Gibson LP custom, yes....but not an Epiphone. Surely an Epiphone fake would have to be based on something like a 'no name' £100 Les Paul copy which would be very very easy to spot. Dude, I don't know what you are looking at, his headstock looks nothing like either one of those. Sure there appears to be some slight differences in the two guitars. But nothing like the differences in Renegades LP. I wish it wasn't so, but I'm still sure it's fake. But, like it has been said before, some of those copies play and sound almost as good as the real thing. And when it costs you $70 to make a fake, why not copy Epiphone. These are probably people who work at these guitar factories, and get their materials for next to nothing. This is China, and there are probably Mom and Pop instrument makers all over the place. A $200 profit on a fake guitar x's 10 a week = $2000 per week. And that's assuming just 10 a week. Doesn't seem to bad. It's not the profit per piece, but the profit in quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alanhindle Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Dude' date=' I don't know what you are looking at, his headstock looks nothing like either one of those. Sure there appears to be some slight differences in the two guitars. But nothing like the differences in Renegades LP. I wish it wasn't so, but I'm still sure it's fake. But, like it has been said before, some of those copies play and sound almost as good as the real thing. And when it costs you $70 to make a fake, why not copy Epiphone. These are probably people who work at these guitar factories, and get their materials for next to nothing. This is China, and there are probably Mom and Pop instrument makers all over the place. A $200 profit on a fake guitar x's 10 a week = $2000 per week. And that's assuming just 10 a week. Doesn't seem to bad. It's not the profit per piece, but the profit in quantity.[/quote'] I disagree ShoNuff. Look at how crooked the segments of the diamond inlay are on the Thomann pic compared to the Sweewater pic. Thomann: http://www.thomann.de/gb/epiphone_les_paul_custom_black.htm Sweetwater: http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/electric/all/sEE080501462/ Our friend's pictures look to be quite low resolution and are taken in artificial light, with the flash adding to the confusion. We need him to post a daylight photo of the headstock with a reasonably high megapixel camera. I'm sure this will clear it up either way. NB. Wouldn't the MOP headstock inlays be put in by hand? As such, there is bound to be quite a bit of variability, even when done by the same person. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I was under the impression that the headstock was a plastic overlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alanhindle Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I was under the impression that the headstock was a plastic overlay.. I guess you mean it's MOP effect (not real MOP) and that it is stuck on rather than cut in. On an Epi, I would say you are right. On my Standard Plus, the Epi Logo is definitely underneath the poly finish. If it is a layer of plastic it would have to be very very thin because there is no evidence of a raised bump when you run your finger over it. Sticking these bits on would still be a fiddly job and subject to variability both within and between workers. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelodyMaker1 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I don't really know, and I don't want to assume. But, I would think that somehow that the headstock inlay was machined into place. I can't see, with so much seemingly quality control. That they would leave something as important as the headstock inlay in human hands. I mean just as you say Alan, there would be to much of a variable in placing the inlay. Basically that's Epiphones billboard. I mean if the headstock inlay is not right, there goes the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieChaplin Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 . Another thing- Why would anyone go to this much trouble to fake an Epiphone? A £2000 Gibson LP custom' date=' yes....but not an Epiphone. Surely an Epiphone fake would have to be based on something like a 'no name' £100 Les Paul copy which would be very very easy to spot.[/quote']It's already been proven there are fake Epiphones being sold. I saw a fake that got it's neck snapped off at the body, it was then very obvious it had masonite for the top body wood, I had a pic of it but can't seem to find it at the moment. From the looks of the headstock alone I would have to say it's a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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