Ron G Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 There were a couple of posts recently regarding possible fakes from this vendor. So I sent them an email. Their reply, copied exactly below, contains my original message. But the Chinese writing was not part of my original email. Very strange - and suspicious (to me). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- it will be shipped from UK with DHL thank you Kind Regards Frank 2008-12-17 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mzonline.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ???: Ron G ????: 2008-12-15 21:43:24 ???: sales@mzonline.co.uk ??: ??: Shipping question I may be interested in purchasing an Epiphone Les Paul guitar. Where will it be shipped from? Thank You, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I was one of those posters Ron. When my Custom Plus was late in arriving I sent an e-mail asking whether it was being sent from within the UK. Frank replied and did not directly answer the question, just said it would be delivered by ParcelForce. It was eventually delivered by ParcelForce and had been shipped direct from Beijing. At first I suspected it was fake, I now believe it is a genuine Epi and I got it well below UK retail price. It was very well packed in Epi box with all the usual candy. I assume Frank buys them at wholesale price on the domestic Chinese market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I'm pleased that you got a good guitar Ant, but I'm still a bit suspicious of that company... The same guitar from http://www.imuso.co.uk (a company I've always had a great experience with) is over 200 quid more! Same is true of http://www.thomann.de/gb/index.html They're both good, reliable, big dealerships for Epiphone guitars...and they can't come anywhere near "Frank's" price.... Just makes me dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 A heads up: Not intended to offend anyone. Microsoft has issued a warning as of yesterday that some computer links with ties to China (or charactors replaced by squares) are being used by hackers to steal passwords and identities while you are online. It is due to a vulnerability in the Explorer program. A critical update patch is due out this afternoon. If you see anything suspicious....stay away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I did take a risk on Frank. If a Custom was going to cost me £450 or more I wouldn't have bothered, I'd have looked for a second-hand one on the Bay instead. Frank sold me a Custom Plus ltd edition at the price of a Standard, so i took a chance, and it worked for me. This time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 I inquired to Gibson Europe about this vendor. The email reply is copied below. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Mr. G, Thank you for your interest in Gibson guitars. As far as we know, this seller is not listed as a Gibson-Epiphone authorized dealer. You can easily find a list of our authorized dealers in your country at the following link: http://www.gibson.com/en-uk/EuropeanDealerMap/ If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us again or refer to our webpage at www.gibsoneurope.com Kind regards, Marcelo Pineda Customer Service Gibson Europe FREE NUMBER 00800-4GIBSON1 00800-44427661 www.gibsoneurope.com • For schematics, repair tips, FAQs, Authorized Service Center locations and more, please visit the Gibson Customer Service website at http://www.gibson.com/Service/. • For 24/7 Customer Service, call us at 00-800-4GIBSON (00800 44427661). You can also email us anytime at service.europe@gibson.com. • To locate a Gibson Dealer in your area, please visit: http://www.gibsoneurope.com/smartsite.dws?ch=DEF&id=3849 ***CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is considered a private and proprietary exchange between Gibson Musical Instruments and its customers, and is intended for the eyes of the original recipients only. This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. *** From: Ron G [mailto:rong@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: Service Europe Subject: Authorized EpiphoneRetailer? Is the following an authorized Epiphone retailer? http://www.mzonline.co.uk/index.asp I wouldn't want to get a counterfeit or a guitar that isn't covered by the warranty. Thanking you in advance for your prompt reply, Ron G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 This might seem obvious and self-righteous, but I guess the simple moral here is that if you want to know for sure, then spend the extra cash and go to an authorized dealer... If you don't mind taking the risk, then perhaps you can save a load of money elsewhere - but personally, I just can't do it. I have to know that it's the real deal...I can't explain why...but it would prey on my mind if I bought from a non-authorized dealer...I'd always look at the guitar and wonder: are you or aren't you...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 This might seem obvious and self-righteous' date=' but I guess the simple moral here is that if you want to know for sure, then spend the extra cash and go to an authorized dealer... If you don't mind taking the risk, then perhaps you can save a load of money elsewhere - but personally, I just can't do it. I [b']have[/b] to know that it's the real deal...I can't explain why...but it would prey on my mind if I bought from a non-authorized dealer...I'd always look at the guitar and wonder: are you or aren't you...? I think the simpler moral is: Do your homework. All I had to do was send a simple email. How difficult was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Easy enough Ron. I didn't bother checking because I always believed he wouldn't be an authorised dealer. As I saw it the risks were around whether I'd get a genuine Epi or not. I have no criticism of Frank because he sold me what he promised, a genuine Epi, at a great price - about 40% below authorised dealer rates. I'm the happy owner of another Epi and as far as I know Frank hasn't broken any laws. If I'd had to pay full dealer rates I just wouldn't have bought new, I had have gone for secondhand. There was a risk I'd get B stock or fake; I was prepared to take that risk because of the low price and my confidence that I can repair/upgrade myself. If I'd received a totally garbage guitar l'd have jumped in my car and driven down to the UK address on his website... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Hope you don't mind me using your thread Ron, here at last are pics of my MZONLINE purchase, which I modified as a tribute to Mick Ronsons, early 70s Gibson. Not a perfect replica but close enough to amuse me. First, MR with his modified 1968 Gibson LP Custom..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Now mine. Refinished headstock, Burstbucker Pro at neck, Kossoff special 15k at bridge, sprague .22 caps, cream switch tip, 2-hole TRC, new knobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Now mine. Refinished headstock' date=' Burstbucker Pro at neck, Kossoff special 15k at bridge, sprague .22 caps, cream switch tip, 2-hole TRC, new knobs...[/quote'] Nice job Ant... I always liked Mick Ronson's work...an under-rated guitarist... By the way, this guy claims to have the original (with photos)... http://guitarhangar.com/vmchk/Museum/Gibson-1968-LP-Custom-Mick-Ronson-s-Les-Paul-Custom.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 If I'd received a totally garbage guitar l'd have jumped in my car and driven down to the UK address on his website... I do not see an address posted on the website. But why do I get the sneaking suspicion that it's the attic of a Chinese restaurant? I make no claims regarding the authenticity of your LP. I did this "research" for the benefit of the forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Leics, interesting to see that original. He was actually using 2 similar customs in the early 70s, one was a black one with the front face sanded back to the maple. The other was a natural, and I think that's what's pictured. Back then, he'd only removed the pup covers on the "black" one. Very under-rated guitarist, very talented arranger. Most of the production and arrangement of Lou Reeds' Transformer album was by Ronson. Bowie shared the credit but hardly showed up at the sessions. Ron, I see they've removed the UK address from their website. Have to say, if there had been no address at that time I probably wouldn't have risked it. Part of my thinking was that if they'd ripped me off I could have turned up on their doorstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alanhindle Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Well I'm all for it at these prices. I'f somebody can import the same thing for a lot less money than the authorised dealers then this tells me that there are anticompetitive pricing activties going on. How do the UK authorised dealers get their stocks? Is there an official importer? Personally, I'd love a black custom. I notice MZonline also have the Ace Frehley signature model too. Incidentally, if you pay using a credit card for an item over £100, doesn't the credit card company have to cover any losses where goods you ordered (i.e. a genuine Epi) do not arrive or if nothing arrives at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I did a little investigating... The server for the website is located in Sheffield, and the domain is registered in Amsterdam. I also put something in my cart, and (after switching the currency to USD), the total for a Les Paul Goldtop was $462.14. They took the actual cost of the guitar - $449 and reduced it so that the tax would bring it back to that price. Shipping is only $13. I'd very much like these guitars to be authentic - you can't beat these prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelodyMaker1 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 It's my understanding that their is a certain price that all authorized retailers must agree to sell at. So it seems incredible that this place could have so many new Epi's, that are being sold for as much as 2/3rds off of the lowest prices that these retailers can go. Now I understand a certain amount of sticky fingers or lighthandedness. But these people must have quite an operation if they are stealing this many Epiphones, this regularly. Now if as some of you seem to believe, that this man is selling real Epiphones, then that just doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 All I can say is that mine is definitely a real Epi, I just assume he isn't authorised, but he has a contact in China buying them at Chinese wholesale price, which is probably much lower than UK. "Nothing illegal, just a little bit funny..." (Bruce Springsteen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 All I can say is that mine is definitely a real Epi' date=' [/quote']And if you say that enough times, we still won't believe it. But if it's important for you, that's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 if you buy a lot, you get a price break. if you ship them together, you save on shipping. if you find a way to buy more direct, you save some more. if you're willing to profit less, you pass that along. If your overhead is lower, you can also sell cheaper. they could be real, and the guy just scrambling to make a buck.. seems to me. I dunno though! TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 And if you say that enough times' date=' we still won't believe it. But if it's important for you, that's OK.[/quote'] We don't know that Ant's isn't real. Besides, judging from what he wrote on the "background" thread, I think he's experienced enough to tell the difference... I was just a bit shocked to see the photo of the headstock overlay which MarxBros posted... If Gibson are using those on their Customs rather than using inlays, that is sort of taking the p*ss, given how much they cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Ron, it really isn't important to me whether it's a real Epi or not, I thought I'd made it clear that as long as it was a reasonably good guitar, and value for money, I wasn't bothered. I thought people were keen to establish if he was selling real ones or fakes. Having just got one from him, I thought I could help by telling them mine is a real Epi, even if he isn't an authorised dealer. Other posters have described fakes as coming in poor-quality copies of Epi cartons. This came in an Epiphone box which was in good condition and had no print/type/spelling errors, it contained the usual multi-page colour Epi owners leaflet, and a large glossy poster with an ad for the Casino on one side and the whole Epi range on the other side. I can't see counterfeiters going to all that trouble - the box, yes, but not the inserts. I described what I thought were quality issues with it in another thread and someone (Twang?) confirmed that what I'd got was typical of current EE production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 We don't know that Ant's isn't real. Besides' date=' judging from what he wrote on the "background" thread, I think he's experienced enough to tell the difference... I was just a bit shocked to see the photo of the headstock overlay which MarxBros posted... If Gibson are using those on their Customs rather than using inlays, that is sort of taking the p*ss, given how much they cost...[/quote']I believe the overlay is used on the lower-cost instruments. I know my friend's SG Special Faded has one, as did all of the faded Les Paul Studios I played in a store. There's many of them for sale on eBay, called "restoration" overlays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Ron' date=' it really isn't important to me whether it's a real Epi or not, I thought I'd made it clear that as long as it was a reasonably good guitar, and value for money, I wasn't bothered. I thought people were keen to establish if he was selling real ones or fakes. Having just got one from him, I thought I could help by telling them mine is a real Epi, even if he isn't an authorised dealer. Other posters have described fakes as coming in poor-quality copies of Epi cartons. This came in an Epiphone box which was in good condition and had no print/type/spelling errors, it contained the usual multi-page colour Epi owners leaflet, and a large glossy poster with an ad for the Casino on one side and the whole Epi range on the other side. I can't see counterfeiters going to all that trouble - the box, yes, but not the inserts. I described what I thought were quality issues with it in another thread and someone (Twang?) confirmed that what I'd got was typical of current EE production[/quote'] It's cool, Ant. You are obviously savvy enough to: 1) Be aware of the risks in buying a suspect guitar from a dubious source 2) Understand the ramifications of the guitar not being under warranty 3) Accept the possibility that it might not be genuine 4) Assess the overall quality of the guitar, regardless of name I just want other, less savvy buyers to be aware of such things. As I see it, it's about education. In my opinion, Epiphone guitars are really just Asian Gibson knockoffs. And that's fine. Makes sense that Gibson would want a piece of that huge market segment. But it's important to know exactly what one is buying. If the name on the headstock is important, get that name - but know exactly what you're buying. If the name isn't paramount, be aware of the excellent and well-priced competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 We don't know that Ant's isn't real. Besides' date=' judging from what he wrote on the "background" thread, I think he's experienced enough to tell the difference... I was just a bit shocked to see the photo of the headstock overlay which MarxBros posted... If Gibson are using those on their Customs rather than using inlays, that is sort of taking the p*ss, given how much they cost...[/quote']VERY FEW headstocks regardless of brand have actual inlays, most have always used for the most part an overlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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