Low action: Set-necks have a big disadvantage

[Just Strum]

I take it you probably wouldn't like the .013-.056 D'Aquisto Electric Guitar Jazz Nickel set I have on my jazz electric guitar. WIMP! To say nothing of the D'Angelico .014 - .060 I have on my 1939 Gibson archtop. HUGE tone.

 

I've found thin stings sound like crap and once you get used to bending a bit heavier and try thin again they are a joke basically. I use .011's as my lightest on solid body guitars.

 

I used 10's for the most part, but purchased a used Wildkat with 11's and I've been moving to 11's when it's time to change strings on the others. I guess I will have to step up to see how the other sizes feel, but 14's? Isn't that the dia of the cable used on the Golden Gate bridge?

[Marcelo1281734115]

Hey Marx, just because I bought the Enie Ball strings that come in the nice pretty pink package, it does not make me a wimp, lol. When I go to my music store all I see are a bunch of .009s and 010s, which led me to believe that this is all the people use nowadays. For instance, I never heard that anything above an .011 size even existed.

 

I was led to believe that Slinkys are more "elastic" and are easier on the fingers than the same-size of other brands, which is probably not true (what makes easy on the fingers is probably their small size). I have a spare set of .010 D'Addarios and I will throw them on in the next string change on the Strat. I need to experiment with sizes until I get the ones that work best for me. I don't mind experimenting as you can see.

 

Rafael, the funny thing about the three guitars is that I cannot tell much on the differences they have, lol. The only things that I did found is that the Strat has that middle pickup the gets in the way at the point I strum and that stupid Volume knob is just too close to the 1st string when compared to the humbucker-equipped SG and the LP. Also, the Strat pickups sounds so thin, when compared to the humbuckers, that this guitar is screaming for a pickup upgrade (I am leaning towards purchasing a pickguard with 2 humbuckers from GFS). I don't have a fancy amp, so I am finding that single-coils are difficult for me to make it sound "rock".

[rafaelh]

The only things that I did found is that the Strat has that middle pickup the gets in the way at the point I strum and that stupid Volume knob is just too close to the 1st string when compared to the humbucker-equipped SG and the LP.

 

Yeah...that volume knob on a Strat messes with some folks when bouncing between an LP. Only time I have a problem with a middle pickup is on the 3 humbucker loaded guitars....LOL' date=' always hitting them. I don't play those that often so it would be just a matter of getting use to them I would guess.

 

 

 

Also' date=' the Strat pickups sounds so thin, when compared to the humbuckers, that this guitar is screaming for a pickup upgrade (I am leaning towards purchasing a pickguard with 2 humbuckers from GFS). I don't have a fancy amp, so I am finding that single-coils are difficult for me to make it sound "rock".[/quote']

 

No, no, no, no, don't do that...LOL.

 

I mean to each his own, but that's what single coils suppose to be....weak and twangy (is that a word?) .You have two different beasts already, humbucker and single coils, use them. Can almost guaranty down the line you'll learn to appreciate both....I think anyhow.

 

Hell I got Humbuckers, mini humbuckers, P-90s, single coils...all offer something different. Give it time.

[Marcelo1281734115]

The only thing that prevented me from getting humbuckers on the Strat was that I looked under the pickup and the body was carved out for HSS and I did not know of somebody that can router off the neck location to fit the humbucker. I am going to wait for now, who knows, the sound might grow on me and I might like it more in the future. The nice thing about Strats is that if you change your mind, you can have the guitar back to its old configuration in about 30 minutes.

[ChrisKevin]

unltimate low action guitars: Les Paul Customs from the early/mid 80's

[MarxBros]

unltimate low action guitars: Les Paul Customs from the early/mid 80's

Actually most Gibsons from then. I've got a 1983 Explorer and it's a fretless wonder, low does not begin to describe it. Many folks didn't like that feel, but I don't mind.

[MarxBros]

 

I used 10's for the most part' date=' but purchased a used Wildkat with 11's and I've been moving to 11's when it's time to change strings on the others. I guess I will have to step up to see how the other sizes feel, but 14's? Isn't that the dia of the cable used on the Golden Gate bridge?[/quote'] I've found .11's are really ideal for most solid bodies.

 

If you have a semi or full hollow electric you might find you like the sound of the big strings, try some 12's once.

[pohatu771]

I have to say, I have better action on my Casino than I've ever gotten on my Strats... not that it matters, really, I can play anything, assuming it's under 1/3".

[rafaelh]

I have to say' date=' I have better action on my Casino than I've ever gotten on my Strats... not that it matters, really, I can play anything, assuming it's under 1/3".[/quote']

 

Probably because of the different board radius and scale Po....that is if we are talking about the same type of action :D

 

Anyhow I do love the way my Casino's set up...great for chord melodies. I run 10s and 11s on my electrics for the most and now I have 13s on my acoustic...got to get that top vibrating :D .

[pohatu771]

 

Probably because of the different board radius and scale Po....that is if we are talking about the same type of action :D

 

I don't like my guitars that much...

[rafaelh]

O hell..LOL...I was more referring like on top of them, not with them. Lord...you got me craking up over here..you're funny.

[wytevett]

All these improper fractions are really making me batty' date=' considering my woodworking background. 4/32? Really? How about... 1/8? LOL...

 

And really, wether you call it 2/32 or 1/16, I can't imagine wanting action any lower than that on the bass side anyway. Of course you get fret buzz if you go lower... The string needs room to vibrate, LOL!

[/quote']

 

yet 1 inch lumber is 4/4 and two inch lumber is 8/4. You should be able to get used to it!

[snookelputz]

No, a 1x2 is really 3/4" x 1-1/2" and a 2x4 is 1-1/2" x 3-1/2". They tell me this is due to shrinkage. And, yes, several of you out there have complained to Santa this year about shrinkage and lack of wood in your pencil. You know who you are! Santa has empowered me to remind you to pay your medical insurance - and maybe this year you'll find some little blue pills under the, ah...tree.

[TWANG]

so now we know why santa is chubby.

 

TWANG

[theDeuce]

I mean to each his own' date=' but that's what single coils suppose to be....weak and twangy (is that a word?) .[/quote']

 

Yes, it is commonly used in Minnesota to describe a guitarist.

[theDeuce]

To those that want to reduce fractions, it is so much easier to compare 3/32 to 4/32 than compare 3/32 to 1/8.

 

Having said that, I would think we hacks should use the same style as commonly used in the luthier trade. Any luthiers here to comment?

[Dave]

There are a lot of factors represented in this thread. First, bolt-on necks can be angle adjusted by proper shimming. There are some that have a micro-tilt adjustement to do that. In some Fenders you will find this. There's a lot of controversy over whether the 3 bolt micro-tilt is inferior to the 4 bolt non-adjustable neck. My 1979 Strat has the 3 bolt micro-tilt and I only had to adjust it once, early on in its life. The adjustment just allows manufacturing to send out the guitar without doing a machining and flush matching job...they just adjust the allen screw and its done. The 4 bolt neck has to be matched to the pocket which takes more time. Both types of necks play just fine and have great sustain.

 

An LP set neck can't be heated and adjusted unless the tenon is a little sloppy in its mortise. The tenon should have been a snug fit when created, meaning that if you CAN heat the glue, which I doubt, since the glue is applied to the bottom and sides of the neck and to the tenon before assembly, you will permanently damage the joint by stressing the mortise and tenon joint. A fret dressing is in order to fix the angle above the 15th fret if your guitar has excessive bow in this area. If you have to remove wood from the fingerboard to get the fret height correct, you probably should just sell the guitar on Ebay and find another one.

 

String guage is a user preference. 10's will feel tighter on a Strat than on an LP due to scale length. 9's on an LP are too slinky for my preference, but not too bad on a Strat, although I use 10's on both. Larger strings produce more volume and better tone but can be detrimental if you are a bender. It really takes a lot of effort to bend 12's on an acoustic or an electric. I prefer 10's because I'm a constant string bender and use a lot of finger vibrato, ala BB King.

 

Nut height is best set for open chords. I like just a few thousandths between the 2nd fret and the string when fretting the 3rd. That way you don't sharpen notes in an open chord using Gibson fret wire. I agree that raising a nut can slightly increase 15th fret height, but so can rasing the bridge. If you've done all the usual adjustments and have to raise the nut, See my Ebay comment above (grin).

[Marcelo1281734115]

Well my hack advise FWIW . I seriously doubt the OP will be able to do any serious damage with a hair dryer externally. If you've ever seen someone try to remove a neck joint with a steamer you'd probably agree' date=' those things are in there. As far as hanging 10 lbs., think about it, the strings pull about 100-150 lbs of pressure on the neck so 10 lbs. would pretty much do nothing.[/quote']

 

This post got me thinking...... It can be better explained in math terms. The tension on the strings is say 100lbs ,the low end of the range, if you are using .009 strings like I am. Then, the force can be resolved into 2 separate force components perpendicular to each other. So you can map the force into X-Y coordinates, say x being the neck itself and Y being perpendicularly outward from the neck. If you assume the string makes an angle with the neck, let's call the angle A (let's assume angle A is 1-degree). Then, the force of the string on the guitar's can be resolved using trigonometry as follows:

 

 

- 100 x cosine A = 100 x (.99984) = 99.984 lbs of force along the neck (forcing the neck into the body, the X-axis)

 

- 100 x sine A = 100 X (.01745) = 1.745 lbs of force perpendicularly to the neck (outwards, the Y-axis)

 

Therefore, almost all the force of the strings is being countered by the neck by getting pushed into the body and a small portion of the string force is actually bending the neck forward. You can probably test this out, if you secure your guitar down, with all strings installed, and you place a 2lbs weight on the headpiece, you cancel the effect of the small force that is perpendicular to the neck, and the strings will start to go sharp (because they are being stretched now).

 

So, if you loosen the strings and you store the guitar with 10lbs of weight on the headpiece, this would be more than enough to get the wood to settle into the new position if you leave it long enough, perhaps many weeks. If you use 100lbs on the headpiece, you are using overkill and you also run the risk of breaking off the headstock. That is my guess.

[rextasy]

I've been chasing action and buzz on my G-400 for the last few days. I did everything, then finally admitted the nut was worn down too much in the slots. Filled and filed them, and now I've got a nice 3/64 low E at the 12th fret and 2/64 on the high E, with no buzzing, which is as low as I need.

 

2/62 is Low. I can't imagine getting (or wanting) that on an SG, much less my Les Paul.

[Marcelo1281734115]

Thanks, Rexstasy for your input. That is something to look for.

 

This week, I had a "Eureka" moment. At Christmas, I stored the Les Paul in it usual Epiphone hardcase but I placed a towel folded a few times under the body where the body meets the neck. I did this because I noticed that the U-channel support the Epiphone hardcase has at the 10th fret was touching the bottom of the neck too much. I saw that the guitar was almost entirely supported by the neck, instead of the case supporting the body of the guitar itself. Sounds like it's no big deal right?, well my Les Paul is about 12 years old and during most of the last decade, the guitar just sat in it case unplayed. In fact, even when it was played, the guitar always ends up in its case, right? I suspected that the case itself was causing the settling of the neck into a hockey stick shape.

 

Anyhow, the towel I placed under the body lifted the neck slightly away from the U-channel and the neck of the guitar sits up in the air slightly while in the case. The case is so tight, that by raising the neck, it causes the nut area to touch the lid of the case a bit more when you close the case. This is OK for me as I was looking to place some downward presssure on my headstock to see if the guitar's neck would receed back down to new condition. Well, I took the guitar out of the case after a week in the case and the guitar now had a 3/64 low-E action at the 12th fret and the strings were in tune this time. I could not believe it! The guitar is perfect now! The hockey stick bend appears to have gone away.

 

To you guitar owners out there, I suggest you check your hardcases closely to see that there is a little gap under the neck at that nasty U-channel, so that your neck is not being forced up unnecessarily while the guitar is stored in the case. I did the math above, and it don't take much to bend a neck out of place, so you can imagine the effect of submitting the neck to 12 years to this pressure. You are pretty much sure of getting a hockey stick neck.

[antwhi2001]

I just can't imagine 1/64 either way making any difference whatsoever in terms of playability or feel. Surely all that matters is how it plays and whether it's set up to suit your technique. I've been playing gigs since 1976 and I've NEVER felt any need to measure string height. My guitars hang on walls, get put in cars, cold or hot, taken to gigs, played under hot lights, put away again. Now and again one may feel a little low or high and I tweak the truss rod slightly. Then I get on with playing them.

[generation zero]

I just can't imagine 1/64 either way making any difference whatsoever in terms of playability or feel. Surely all that matters is how it plays and whether it's set up to suit your technique. I've been playing gigs since 1976 and I've NEVER felt any need to measure string height. My guitars hang on walls' date=' get put in cars, cold or hot, taken to gigs, played under hot lights, put away again. Now and again one may feel a little low or high and I tweak the truss rod slightly. Then I get on with playing them. [/quote']

 

That's pretty much how I feel about it too. I never thought I would see trigonometry being associated with the everyday storage of a guitar... Crap, we're musicians, it's a wonder any of us can count past 4! LOL!

[Nic]

I just can't imagine 1/64 either way making any difference whatsoever in terms of playability or feel. Surely all that matters is how it plays and whether it's set up to suit your technique. I've been playing gigs since 1976 and I've NEVER felt any need to measure string height. My guitars hang on walls' date=' get put in cars, cold or hot, taken to gigs, played under hot lights, put away again. Now and again one may feel a little low or high and I tweak the truss rod slightly. Then I get on with playing them. [/quote']

 

I agree. Focus on playing and action just isn't going to matter that much. I remember getting a Sears acoustic guitar for christmas in the 60's and that action was too high. These days, I can walk into any guitar store and play anything on the wall and find the action well within an acceptable range.

[snookelputz]

Yeah, but do you still remember what cosine means?

[antwhi2001]

I suppose my point was that people like Clapton, Beck and Page probably don't know what cosine means. Hendrix probably didn't either. You can either get on with playing or you can disappear up your own *ss measuring things; each to their own.