metalhed717 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ive noticed some guitarists bring the strings down through the taipliece and wrap them over. just wondering if any of you guys know of any differences this makes compared to normal stringing. i tried it on my epi sg last night when i changed the strings but ihavent noticed any difference, but then again i changed the strings late last night and havent really played it much yet. just wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiberna Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 not particulary sure on this one even though i do it, i noticed a slight change in treble but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Yeah, I asked the same question a while back and it seems like it has different results for different people. Basically, it is supposed to increase sustain, but a lot of people do not notice any difference. I decided not to do it myself (didn't want to mess up the tailpiece) so I can't tell you if it made any difference for me or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelo1281734115 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I noticed this from some people and I wanted to ask about it too. All I can see happening by this is that the angle that the string meets the bridge saddle is not as sharp, maybe it is easier on the wear-and-tear of the saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Some people claim that it helps the sustain. Not sure to be honest. But I do know that it makes it harder for the ball-end to sit the way it should and can get pulled in to the tail piece making it difficult to stay in tune - and remove when it comes time to change strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Wrapping is no different than raising the tailpiece, except you still get to have the tailpiece screwed down tight for body coupling. There's been endless debate on tailpiece adjustment/wrap. I've posted my position on this many years ago, it has to do with the tension of the strings...before you cry impossible read my explanation which has been posted on several web sites over the years.... "Yes, the fact is...... it is 100% true a specific string requires a specific tension for a specific note. Now....the saddle is normally the end of the strings length, it is the fixed point that terminates the strings length, correct? Yes, correct...until you bend or press on the string. Now all bets are off, why? Because the saddles are not "locking" saddles(like, say a locking nut) the string length behind the saddle now comes into play. Don't believe me? Fret a note, keep it fretted...now pluck it's string length behind the saddle...NOW....while bending that fretted note continue to pluck its string length behind the saddle. What happens? The pitch of the string length behind the saddle raises as you bend the fretted note. What does that tell you? That once strings are bent or even pressed down to fret(which essentially is a tiny micro bend) the string length behind the saddles now comes into play here and is now part of the strings overall bending tension equation. Now with this in mind, consider.... 1. If the tension of the string length behind the saddle is high already due to the stoptail being set down tight to the body causing a sharp angle on that short length of string, what is going to happen when you bend(or fret)a note? It's going to "access" that higher behind the saddle tension and feel stiff when you bend it. 2. Conversely, if the stoptail is raised up the tension on that short length of string is now low, so now when you bend a note the "access" to that lower behind the saddle tension causes the bend to feel less stiff. Of course you don't get something for nothing here. A higher stoptail will make fretting feel easier and bends easier, but....the distance needed to bend to a specific pitch will now be greater. Make sense? This is one reason why different guitar designs feel different, and react to bending notes differently.Tuned to concert pitch different guitars with the same string set, same scale length, will have the same tension at concert pitch. Right? Right. Now, each may feel like there's a different tension when fretted or bending though, why? The string length that is on each end, each terminating point of the string, be it a nut or saddle varies on different guitar designs. Headstock pitch, tuner spacing and height on the peghead as well as string trees, stop tail or trapeze, or frequensator tailpieces, through body stringing, or a Fender Strat or Tele type bridge...all of these have different behind the strings terminating point string length and tensions" Now if you don't believe me, here's what the old Gibson catalog said...."tailpiece can be moved up or down to adjust tension" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Some people claim that it helps the sustain. Not sure to be honest. But I do know that it makes it harder for the ball-end to sit the way it should and can get pulled in to the tail piece making it difficult to stay in tune - and remove when it comes time to change strings.The best answer for that is to take the ball ends of an old set and insert those first into the tailpiece, then the new strings ball ends will sit better and remove easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Where's the "jaw dropping" smiley? Excellent info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelo1281734115 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Nice post, Marx. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 The best answer for that is to take the ball ends of an old set and insert those first into the tailpiece' date=' then the new strings ball ends will sit better and remove easy.[/quote'] i don't understand what your saying Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 i don't understand what your saying Marx Cut off the balll-ends from an old set of strings and insert them into the tail piece before stringing the new ones. That will prevent the new strings from continually being pulled further into the tailpiece causing tuning and removal problems. Remember, this is just for stringing the tailpiece backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 i don't understand what your saying Marx You take a set of ball ends off old strings, you drop them into the tail piece holes, you then thread the new strings through the ball ends holes, this will make the new strings ball ends sit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ah kool thank you for clearing that up... that is what i thought thats what you might have been talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Dagnab it MarxBros - that was a fine piece of succinct explaining. So much so that I did what you said with the bending and the plucking and stuff. That inspired me to take the strings off my Sheraton (due a change anyway) and top-wrap it, dropping the stop down so the angle was about what it was before. Can't hear a difference - but it does feel different when bending notes. Along-axis vibrato does sound better. Going to keep it that way for a while and see how it pans out - but promising so far. I thank you sir. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 A copy of MarxBros. explanation of string tension goes into my Guitar Info binders for future reference. I'd rather have too much info than not have it there if/when I need it... Excellent! When's the next class, and do you have a tip jar? I like Marcelo's signature line - uncanny business accumen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostindesert Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Billy Gibbons of ZZTop strings up ''Pearly Gates'' (Gibson Les Paul) this way. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalhed717 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 well just played it through a four hour band practice and i avent noticed any difference but i think it looks cool so im going to keep doing it this way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDeuce Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Yes' date=' the fact is...... it is 100% true a specific string requires a specific tension... [/quote'] Does it make sense to wrap if you bend strings a lot? Why would I want to bend the strings further to reach the same note? I suppose it changes the expression, at the cost of more work, slower playing. Does G still include that adjustment in advertising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 metalhead717 and eGuitarNut - I couldn't hear any difference, but the strings didn't feel the same. Hard to pin it down, especially since new strings will usually feel nicer than old ones, but I would guess there is very slightly less resistance to displacing the strings - either bending across the neck or longitudinal vibrato. It really is very slight, may even be psychosomatic - but it looks good and allows the stop to be dropped (I am guessing it would be more noticable if the stop was not dropped since the string angle over the bridge would be much less - and should feel different). Try it - if you don't like it, change back, got to be worth a go..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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