KYSohn Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I've been looking for a decent used Dot for a while to replace the one I regrettably sold a while back. Yesterday, I found one at a local store that had just come in. It was a Dot Super in vintage burst finish (with flame maple top and block inlay - Music 123 exclusive in 2006 I think) in excellent shape. With the Epi hardshell case, asking price was $330. However, there was something weird about that guitar. Someone did refinish the back of headstock only around the serial number to the top of the headstock with black gross spray paint which did blend in with the remaining black finish around it (not perfectly, though---). And at right above the serial number where "2nd" or "used" stamp is usually found, I could see and feel slight dip (size of the usual 2nd or Used stamp) under the spray paint used to refinish. So I strongly suspected that someone sanded off to remove the 2nd or Used stamp and used filler and spray paint to hind it. But not only that, there was something else wrong with the serial number itself. The number was EE0601XXX. But don't Chinese "EE" Epiphones normally have either 4 or 5 digit serial after the year and month codes? In closer inspection, I saw a small gouge right after the last visible serial number under the refinished paint. This, to me, screamed out "stolen guitar" because someone appearance removed the last one or two digit serial number. Even though it was a GREAT looking AND playing Dot, I had to say no. I guess I'll keep looking... So what do you think? Do you also think it is a "hot" Dot? If so, would you still have bought it if you were me? (I mean, it was a great looking and playing guitar... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Not I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardog Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 it sounds like the local store got had. or they are trying to get over on a buyer. if you really like it plan to keep it. if you noticed alterations so did the store. i would haggle the price down based on what you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 doesn't epiphone or the third party refurbishers remove the serial number on 2nds / Used to void all future warranty claims? seems like that is the case and someone wanted to cover it up for aesthetic purposes or to hide that fact from a buyer...but it doesn't sound like it was stolen to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beef Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 But not only that' date=' there was something else wrong with the serial number itself. The number was EE0601[b']XXX[/b]. But don't Chinese "EE" Epiphones normally have either 4 or 5 digit serial after the year and month codes? In closer inspection, I saw a small gouge right after the last visible serial number under the refinished paint. This, to me, screamed out "stolen guitar" because someone appearance removed the last one or two digit serial number. My Sheraton 2 is exactly like this. I bought it from a friend of mine, someone I know well and trust, who bought it "new" from a store. It has the used stamp on the back of the headstock (which is why I put new in quotes). The last three digits of the serial number have been removed from the headstock - there are noticeable marks in the finish where these digits were removed. There is no serial number on the sticker inside the upper F-hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSohn Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 it sounds like the local store got had. or they are trying to get over on a buyer. if you really like it plan to keep it. if you noticed alterations so did the store. i would haggle the price down based on what you see. I thought of haggling the price down and buying. But the potentially defaced serial number was a main concern. That may pose a problem IF I decide to sell it sometime in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSohn Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 My Sheraton 2 is exactly like this. I bought it from a friend of mine' date=' someone I know well and trust, who bought it "new" from a store. It has the used stamp on the back of the headstock (which is why I put new in quotes). The last three digits of the serial number have been removed from the headstock - there are noticeable marks in the finish where these digits were removed. There is no serial number on the sticker inside the upper F-hole. [/quote'] Hmm, I did not think of checking the serial number on the sticker inside the upper F-hole. I will go back there tomorrow and take a look... By the way, was the "used" stamp on your friend's Sheraton II covered and refinished in the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beef Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 No, it hasn't been altered in any way. this is a natural sheraton so there's really no way to do that without completely sanding down the whole back of the headstock and doing a full refinish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSohn Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 doesn't epiphone or the third party refurbishers remove the serial number on 2nds / Used to void all future warranty claims?seems like that is the case and someone wanted to cover it up for aesthetic purposes or to hide that fact from a buyer...but it doesn't sound like it was stolen to me... Interesting... I did not know that Epiphone or refurbishers actually removed a part of serial number. If so' date=' then you maybe right. The Dot may not be a hot item... Hmmm It can be a case of Epiphone or refurbishers defacing the number and the previous owner trying to hide the "used" stamp. (Not a good job that was, by the way. Definitely done by someone without much woodworking/refinishing skills...) If so, do you guys think $330 with a [b']case [/b] (edited for misspelling... sorry...) is a good deal or should I go lower??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 If so' date=' do you guys think $330 with a hase is a good deal or should I go lower???[/quote']That's not even a good price for a first-quality used Dot. Take a cold shower and continue shopping..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modorange Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 That's not even a good price for a first-quality used Dot. Take a cold shower and continue shopping..... Ha! That is an OK price I think. The influx of Chinese instruments has driven the price of used gear down a bit. $350 used to be a very good price for an (unaltered) Dot. Still, if you're concerned about the item being stolen it wouldn't hurt to use that as a bargaining chip if you want to negotiate a lower price. Another thing you could do is to search on google with your area and that model of guitar and surrounding areas to see if you get any positive matches of stolen Dots fitting that description. If you do, it is possible that the place would not have gotten the item a police hold placed on it because of the obscured serial. Then you could find the previous owner and alert both places of the item. First make sure that is indeed the correct guitar, though, because you could just as easily be alerting someone who is also shopping for a nice used DOT! All this being said, there is another possibility. The guitar could have been stolent in the past and then simply put back on the market. I have seen guitars with part of the serial gone that were previously stolen, but then later legitimately bought and sold back in the market. Then there's also the possibility that the guitar was indeed refinished and resold and taken off the new/warranty market, marked as a 2nd or USED and then someone sanded or covered the USED impression for whatever reason. In fact the store may know the story. I feel like the guitar is devalued no matter what the actual occurence is that took place leading to the alteration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 If you doubt it, foggedaboutit! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Ha! That is an OK price I think. The influx of Chinese instruments has driven the price of used gear down a bit. $350 used to be a very good price for an (unaltered) Dot. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you:-$ Dots sell new for $400 or less - how is $350 a good price? With careful shopping and patience, used stuff can be had for 50-60% of what they cost new. Plenty of used Epis out there, especially in this time of financial hardship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSohn Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Like many suggested, I will take a pass on that Dot due to the price and refinishing/incomplete serial number. I thought of buying one on Ebay, but I wanted to try one first before buying... Oh well, it's time to scan the local shops and Craig's List again~!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP_CS336 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I've been looking for a decent used Dot for a while to replace the one I regrettably sold a while back.Yesterday' date=' I found one at a local store that had just come in. It was a Dot Super in vintage burst finish (with flame maple top and block inlay - Music 123 exclusive in 2006 I think) in excellent shape. With the Epi hardshell case, asking price was $330. However, there was something weird about that guitar. Etc....[/quote'] KYsohn, one thing that puzzled me right off the bat that no one else mentioned was part of the description you gave..."It was a Dot Super in vintage burst finish with flame maple top and block inlay...). First of all the Dot is called the Dot most specifically because of the "dot" inlays that is has, e.g. Gibson ES-335 Dot, as opposed to the "block" inlays that you mention. All the other things you mention also make the guitar suspect. And yes, the EE Chinese Epiphone Serial Numbers after the date YYMM (e.g. 0710) have five digits after them, as I have an EE Les Paul and that's the way the Serial Number scheme is. Whatever you're looking at may be some sort of ES-335 copy, but it's sure not a "Dot" and the only Epiphone Dots I've seen have the "Dot" inlays or in the case of the Dot Studio, none (makes me wonder why they still call it a dot). There are 335 style guitars made by Gibson that have the "Block" inlay (see Chuck Berry's guitar, which may be a 345, but anyhow, it's "Block" and they are not called "Dots"). In your situation, I smell a rat and would just walk away from it no matter what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 ..."It was a Dot Super in vintage burst finish with flame maple top and block inlay...). First of all the Dot is called the Dot most specifically because of the "dot" inlays that is has' date=' e.g. Gibson ES-335 Dot, as opposed to the "block" inlays that you mention Whatever you're looking at may be some sort of ES-335 copy, but it's sure not a "Dot" and the only Epiphone Dots I've seen have the "Dot" inlays or in the case of the Dot Studio, none (makes me wonder why they still call it a dot). There are 335 style guitars made by Gibson that have the "Block" inlay (see Chuck Berry's guitar, which may be a 345, but anyhow, it's "Block" and they are not called "Dots"). [/quote'] http://dealspl.us/Epiphone-Dot-Super-Exclusive-Semi-Hollowbody-Electric-Guitar_35861 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSohn Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 KYsohn' date=' one thing that puzzled me right off the bat that no one else mentioned was part of the description you gave..."It was a Dot Super in vintage burst finish with flame maple top and block inlay...). First of all the Dot is called the Dot most specifically because of the "dot" inlays that is has, e.g. Gibson ES-335 Dot, as opposed to the "block"inlays that you mention. All the other things you mention also make the guitar suspect. And yes, the EE Chinese Epiphone Serial Numbers after the date YYMM (e.g. 0710) have five digits after them, as I have an EE Les Paul and that's the way the Serial Number scheme is.[/quote'] Well actually, I do know that this Dot Super is a legitimate Epiphone Dot. Epiphone (and other brands too) does produce special edition made exclusively for a certain distributor. For example, the natural finish, Ash bodied MIM Standard Fender Strat was available exclusively from Guitar Center (and still is???). This Dot is one of those "exclusive" model made by Epiphone for Music 123. I still have a copy of Music 123 2006 catalog, in which features this Dot Super (that's how Music 123 named this) in vintage burst with flame maple top, which is only available finish option shown on that catalog. (I checked the catalog to confirm once I came home last night) The price listed? Only $359!!! (D-oh~!!! ) On a side note, that catalog also features another Music 123 Exclusive Epi G400 in black with that Mastero (sp??) trem for $400. (Where's that dang time machine when I need it??? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modorange Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have a bridge I'd like to sell you:-$ Dots sell new for $400 or less - how is $350 a good price? With careful shopping and patience' date=' used stuff can be had for 50-60% of what they cost new. Plenty of used Epis out there, especially in this time of financial hardship.[/quote']I thought they used to be priced higher. I know currently they are $400 on musicians "friend". That's a good deal. And the Studio (no dot!) is an even better deal. That's what I'd be going for if I was on a budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP_CS336 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Well actually' date=' I do know that this Dot Super is a legitimate Epiphone Dot. Epiphone (and other brands too) does produce special edition made exclusively for a certain distributor. For example, the natural finish, Ash bodied MIM Standard Fender Strat was available exclusively from Guitar Center (and still is???). This Dot is one of those "exclusive" model made by Epiphone for Music 123. I still have a copy of Music 123 2006 catalog, in which features this Dot Super (that's how Music 123 named this) in vintage burst with flame maple top, which is only available finish option shown on that catalog. (I checked the catalog to confirm once I came home last night) The price listed? Only $359!!! (D-oh~!!! ) [/quote'] Learn something new everyday...I guess I stand corrected by Ron G (see his entry with http://dealspl.us/Epiphone-Dot-Super-Exclusive-Semi-Hollowbody-Electric-Guitar_35861) & KYSohn on this. I guess "Dot-Super" turns a Dot into a Block. But why still call it a "Dot" then? Go figure, right? I was just thinking along the lines of the Gibson ES-3n5 model line, where the ES-335, 345, and 355 are Blocks of some type, but the ES-335 with the dot inlays are called exclussively ES-335 "Dot" just for that reason. Okay...thanks for the education. Still can't figure out why they'd call it "Dot Super", unless that's the distributor, in this case Music123, and not the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSohn Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Learn something new everyday...I guess I stand corrected by Ron G (see his entry with http://dealspl.us/Epiphone-Dot-Super-Exclusive-Semi-Hollowbody-Electric-Guitar_35861) & KYSohn on this. I guess "Dot-Super" turns a Dot into a Block. But why still call it a "Dot" then? Go figure' date=' right? I was just thinking along the lines of the Gibson ES-3n5 model line, where the ES-335, 345, and 355 are Blocks of some type, but the ES-335 with the dot inlays are called exclussively ES-335 "Dot" just for that reason. Okay...thanks for the education. Still can't figure out why they'd call it "Dot Super", unless that's the distributor, in this case Music123, and not the manufacturer.[/quote'] I hear you bro... And I agree that calling it "Dot" doesn't make sense because it does NOT have "dots." But I guess it was because whoever named it at Music 123 was lacking some creativity??? Or because it was based on Dot and calling it Epiphone "Block" sounded, well--- you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 The guitar could have been stolent in the past and then simply put back on the market. I have seen guitars with part of the serial gone that were previously stolen' date=' but then later legitimately bought and sold back in the market.[/quote']Tell that one to the judge! Once stolen, always stolen. Remember that to save yourself from a "receiving stolen property" admit to the state's budget motel. BTW you don't even have to know the item is stolen. Now how many of you are still looking to buy "suspicious property?" The only two exceptions are when the stolen item has been recovered/returned to the rightful owner who can sell it b/c it's no longer "stolen", or the police/state recover and then auction the item as unclaimed property. Otherwise it can be bought/sold a 1000 times with receipts from every seller and it remains a stolen item. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 As for used prices, here's a recently-ended eBay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220363276936 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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