sledge57 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 No idea if it's fake, my gut tells me it's real, looking at how nice it seems, nice fake if it is. However that neck joint bothers me and unless it came cheap and you know a luthier that says he could fix it I'd pass. I blew up the neck joint in photoshop, lookin ugly to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joef Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ok he emailed me back. "I don't see any crack." So I responded: "Yes. There is CLEARLY a crack where the neck connects to the body. However, in some cases these cracks are harmless, in the finish only, but I need to confirm that it's just that. Pictures 16 and 17, neck joint. Just making sure the neck is straight, and no movement." That was yesterday, and he hasn't written me back. He has chosen to post other questions regarding the guitar in the auction but not this one. I'm not TOUCHING this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ok he emailed me back. "I don't see any crack." So I responded: "Yes. There is CLEARLY a crack where the neck connects to the body. However' date=' in some cases these cracks are harmless, in the finish only, but I need to confirm that it's just that. Pictures 16 and 17, neck joint. Just making sure the neck is straight, and no movement." That was yesterday, and he hasn't written me back. He has chosen to post other questions regarding the guitar in the auction but not this one. I'm not TOUCHING this one. [/quote'] Good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrmatt Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Thanks for blowing the photo up Doug, no doubt about the crack. Unfotunately I think this one falls under the risk out weighing the reward category. mgm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joef Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 i will not be bidding. if the seller were an individual, not an online pawn shop who specializes in harley boots, and they were quick to respond and interested in my concern, i would bid. but this is just a craps-shoot IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Epiphone didn't use serial numbers in 1983? Matsumoku Made Epiphone guitars carried a 6 (early on ) or usually 7 digit serial from 1975/6 up to 1987, when the factory ceased production. The guitar in the auction is Matsumoku, the Three piece laminated neck, the tuners, fret end binding, label, and especially the first "E" on the h/stock, are all indicators of Matsumoku productin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 No idea if it's fake' date=' my gut tells me it's real, looking at how nice it seems, nice fake if it is. However that neck joint bothers me and unless it came cheap and you know a luthier that says he could fix it I'd pass. I blew up the neck joint in photoshop, lookin ugly to me. [img']http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sledge_57/Sheri-neck.jpg[/img] My 1982 Aria Pro II TA-60 semi (also made by Matsumoku ) has a similar crack, but it is only in the finish and the neck join is fine. I have seen this on other Matsumoku made semi`s as well, and again the necks are sturdy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP_CS336 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 frenchie said: My 1982 Aria Pro II TA-60 semi (also made by Matsumoku ) has a similar crack, but it is only in the finish and the neck join is fine. I have seen this on other Matsumoku made semi`s as well, and again the necks are sturdy. I have a Sheraton II that was made in Saien, Korea in 2005 and my neck joint shows similar cracking in the finish between the neck and the body. I think as time goes on, since the manufacture of the guitar, that that is a normal phenomenon for necks that are glued on the the body. My 1987 Gibson Les Paul Custom was no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Bronte wrote: I'm really not sure why there's any question here. The auction guitar is a 1983(September) Matsumoku-made(Japan) Epiphone Sheraton. It appears to be 100% legitimate and actually in exceptional condition with a market value of between $750-$850. It might be prudent for some of you "experts" to actually know something in depth before setting forth to determine its veracity..... Bronte Strong first post :D .... welcome to the forum. "First post"? I suspect that "Bronte" is the new nom de guerre of an iconic figure here on the forum, one who has escaped exile several times. Did you notice that he hails from the bithplace of Lord Nelson? I wonder if his uncle also lives there? He's also correct. I think his point is that it's extremely unwise to authenticate or dismiss as genuine any Asian made Epiphone on the basis of how the tree of life inlay, logo, the episilon, or other details alone are executed, as there are MANY variations from factory to factory and year to year. Apparently, each factory sourced or manufactured these independantly. I have a Broadway and an Epiphone Zephyr Blues Deluxe (for all purposes the same body shape), both built the same year, but in different factories. The logo, tree of life, etc. are all different on these two genuine guitars. They are different still from my Epiphone Elitist Broadway. We must look at the sum of all the parts, not just one or two parts to evaluate whether the guitar on the whole is genuine. A better indication might be how well these and other details are executed, as forgeries are usually on the whole more sloppy. In another thread, someone wondered why fake a guitar that sells for $300 used, and someone else replied that we can see these forgeries all the time on eBay and other sites. The vast majority of Epiphone fakes are solid bodies, as they're much more easy to build and can be made easily with substandard material (like plywood or layered bodies). More importantly, it's easier for the faker to hide the defects with bondo, wood filler, and a thick coating of poly. With a hollow body like a Sheraton, you can pretty much see everything that went into its making. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious, but it explains why you see so few low-cost hollow bodies faked (unless they are obviously some other guitar rebadged). Anyway welcome back to the forum, Bronte. Don't get lost in the moors of Michigan. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Bronte wrote: I'm really not sure why there's any question here. The auction guitar is a 1983(September) Matsumoku-made(Japan) Epiphone Sheraton. It appears to be 100% legitimate and actually in exceptional condition with a market value of between $750-$850. It might be prudent for some of you "experts" to actually know something in depth before setting forth to determine its veracity..... Bronte "First post"? I suspect that "Bronte" is the new nom de guerre of an iconic figure here on the forum' date=' one who has escaped exile several times. Did you notice that he hails from the bithplace of Lord Nelson? I wonder if his uncle also lives there? Red 333[/quote'] I thought so too. He would have been a dead giveaway if he had started his tirade with "If you weren't completely clueless...", our hero's favorite opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Guys' date=' I don't know if this guitar is fake or not (as some of you have pointed out there are variances in the Epiphone Sheraton headstock based on the year that it was made and the country it was made in). The one thing that caught my eye though is the color. I've never seen a burgundy colored Sheraton before. And if you look closely at the back of the headstock and neck, down to where it's set at the body, you can see underneath the finish that it has the 3-piece maple Sheraton II neck rather than the mahogany one piece necks that were use on the Japanese made Sheratons or Elitist Sheratons. Just an observation on that and I think the guitar looks re-finished (someone else mentioned a possible neck break). You can see that he shows the original pickguard and knobs (The new knobs are the black witchhats with silver caps...I like those; I have them on my Les Paul...with the marker points. That adds class). So he may have refinished his guitar from the way it originally was. The other wear and tear on the metal parts looks normal; so it's hard to tell if the paint job was just a personal choice of color change or to hide some cosmetic problems with the guitar. This is E-bay or as someone else intimated E-fake. Since you really can't try it out without buying it, I'd stay away from this one no matter how pretty it looks. JMHO. [/quote'] Matsumoku Japanese made Sheratons do have a three piece Laminated Maple neck, as do Matsumoku made Casino`s, Riviera`s and Emperor`s ( I did once see a Matsumoku made, non special run, i.e not a JHS model Casino, from 86, that had a three piece Mahogany neck!, but only once) This guitar has not been refinished, that is it`s actual colour, the three available colours for Matsumoku made sheraton`s, were WR= Wine Red, N= Natural/Blonde and AS= Antique Sunburst. This one is Wine Red. I bought a new Blonde one of these in the U.K. in August 1984, which I kept for two years, and then foolishly traded in for a post JV Telecaster. As for the issue about the TRC, that too is genuine, Matsumoku used both two and three screw TRC`s. The Samick made Sheratons started to appear around 86, and do look quite similar to the previous Matsumoku line, but as long as you know what to look for, you can easily tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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