LP Special II question... why lighter?

[GHRobson]

Should the Les Paul Juniors be made from the same kind of ply thats obvious in the neck pocket on this photo? Because mine isnt definitely not like that. it seems to be solid red/orangy coloured wood I thought the juniors were all plywood? (mine was made in February 2009)

 

If anyone could shed some light on this for me it would be great appreciated :-)

[eggs]

Yesterday I found an Epiphone Special II that felt GREAT. It looks like this (stock photo):

 

 

It's the wine red with black hardware.

 

I liked the feel because 1) the neck is thin and comfortable' date=' unlike other (more "real") Les Paul shaped guitars by Epiphone (or Gibson). 2) it was SO LIGHT! I've been wanting a light guitar...

 

Interesting thing... This wine red Special II was MUCH lighter than all the other Epiphone Special II guitars in the store. (The black, the sunburst, etc.) I mean, [i']noticeably[/i] lighter. Why the heck is that? Or was it just chance/luck of the draw? Anyone know?

 

CherryBomb,

 

If it feels right... do it!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG5LkU4646E

[gl297]

not to hi-jack this thread but the Cherry bomb video reminded me of something important. If you notice at the beginning the pop-up annotation states that the song is slowed down (lower pitch). This is done by YT uploaders to get around the copyright robot that flags the videos.

 

 

This is done A LOT, especially with newly released material. I wish it wasn't done at all. Many people, including me, get the wrong impression of a particular song and are not hearing the real thing when we think we are. (most uploaders don't announce this like the cherrybomb guy did).

 

Just a heads up to not always believe everything you hear on YT.

[animalfarm]

Should the Les Paul Juniors be made from the same kind of ply thats obvious in the neck pocket on this photo? Because mine isnt definitely not like that. it seems to be solid red/orangy coloured wood I thought the juniors were all plywood? (mine was made in February 2009)

 

The Guitar shown above in post #23 (and your quote) with the evident

layers of plywood in the neck pocket is at least 25 years old - that was

quite common in those days as a standard way of making mass-produced

guitar bodies.

 

This is from a newer LP special II that shows the neck pocket' date=' and is cut

into/from a single piece. Probably is less expensive to manufacture the git

this way vs Layered Plys...

 

[img']http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt26/Animalfarm1984/100_0535.jpg[/img]

[custombuiltguitars]

after reading thru the thread, just a couple of things to add, or reitterate.

The weight of the wood has little to do with the tone. The resonence of the wood is what gives tone. Take basswood and poplar. Both light weight lowergrade hardwoods. Weighing roughly the same in a guitar body. Basswood is muddy and unclear. Poplar is bright and full of tone. Cap basswood with maple, and you get a similar tone to poplar non capped. Maple is very heavy and has a bright tone. Mahogony can be very heavy and have a much warmer tone than maple.

About swamp ash. Many luthier wood suppliers and builders just call any old ash, even northern hard ash (baseball bat wood) swamp ash to charge more. If your guitar is swamp ash, and weighs 10 lbs, it isn't swamp ash. Someone just called it that. Swamp ash grows in swamps down south and grows fast before it dies off. The fast growth is why it weighs less and has a warmer tone than hard ash. Hard ash tends to have a bright tone.

Tone being tone, and we being guitar players...well we all like something different. A good reason to own as many guitars as possible.

My personal favorite body woods are poplar, then mahogony.

[RobinTheHood]

If it's heavy' date=' it's not Swamp Ash. It's regular Ash. They look identical. Being underwater doesn't change the grain, But for some reason it will make the wood really light and resonant. My Tokai P-bass is swamp ash and the body only weighs about 4 lbs. [/quote']

 

I see. Ok, then...regular ash it is...because its HEAVY! I'm going to weigh it one of these days just to see how heavy it really is.

[animalfarm]

I see. Ok' date=' then...regular ash it is...because its HEAVY! I'm going to weigh it one of these days just to see how heavy it really is.[/quote']

 

I weighed my Hondo II - it was just shy of 11 pounds.

Let's make gits out of BALSA wood!!!!!

[RobinTheHood]

I weighed my Hondo II - it was just shy of 11 pounds.

Let's make gits out of BALSA wood!!!!!

 

Dont give Epiphone any ideas!

[pohatu771]

I weighed my Hondo II - it was just shy of 11 pounds.

Let's make gits out of BALSA wood!!!!!

I believe Gibson made Les Paul Studios using Balsa at one point... they didn't call it that, of course. It was a standard mahogany Les Paul with a big piece of balsa in the center.

[RobinTheHood]

I believe Gibson made Les Paul Studios using Balsa at one point... they didn't call it that' date=' of course. It was a standard mahogany Les Paul with a big piece of balsa in the center.[/quote']

 

Like a chamber, only filled in with balsa instead of being hollow?

[snookelputz]

No, I think it was like filling in a sandwich of mahogany.

[Hungrycat]

I believe Gibson made Les Paul Studios using Balsa at one point... they didn't call it that' date=' of course. It was a standard mahogany Les Paul with a big piece of balsa in the center.[/quote']

 

Gibson ES-135's with the trapeze tailpiece have Balsa blocks down the center. Gibson calls Balsa wood "Chromite."

[Sjael]

I believe Gibson made Les Paul Studios using Balsa at one point... they didn't call it that' date=' of course. It was a standard mahogany Les Paul with a big piece of balsa in the center.[/quote']

It was called the Les Paul Studio Lite. There was also a Lite M-III that came with HSH pickups and some whack electronics.

 

They called the balsa wood 'chromyte.'

 

[ToneGuy65]

I have a 1974 Les Paul standard its just shy of 11 lbs this guitar is a TONE monster !

I could put 4 legs on it and it could be a work bench lol

Its a hell of a slab O wood BUT as I crossed int 40 something ville Its not my go to anymore if I wanna walk the next day

 

K

[deflepfan]

I think everyone missed the most important lesson of Custom's post:

 

A good reason to own as many guitars as possible.

Works for me!!

 

Something that I haven't seen quite answered is as to why the one (or more specifically' date=' the one finish) guitar is lighter than the others of the same model. I believe it was the Cherry ones that the OP said ran lighter than the other two finishes.

 

Not knowing where each was made, could it be that the supply of wood for one factory is getting lighter wood, and he just happened upon two made there, and they were both Cherry finished?

 

Sheila

 

PS - Love the new guitar (as shown in your Avatar), Custom! Bigger pics when it's complete. Okay?

[LongMan]

If it's heavy' date=' it's not Swamp Ash. It's regular Ash.[/quote']

Depends. 20 years ago I've built me a writing desk from french swamp ash. That was probably one of the heaviest (and most beautiful) european woods I've ever worked with. It was a plank of app. 14ft length, 2ft wide, and 2½ inches thick. We needed four people to get it on the saw bench[biggrin] And yes, it was well dried already.

They look identical.

From my experience swamp ash often has a more grey tone compared to regular ash.

[custombuiltguitars]

thanks Sheila. It is done. I'm playing now as I'm reading emails and such. I'll get more pics up when I can bring myself to put it down. The one I'm still building is the set neck doublecut JR. Thats still in pieces.....

[Hungrycat]

Depends. 20 years ago I've built me a writing desk from french swamp ash. That was probably one of the heaviest (and most beautiful) european woods I've ever worked with. It was a plank of app. 14ft length' date=' 2ft wide, and 2½ inches thick. We needed four people to get it on the saw bench[biggrin'] And yes, it was well dried already.

 

From my experience swamp ash often has a more grey tone compared to regular ash.

 

Well yeah, that's gonna be heavy. It was 14 FEET long. And I can't speak to un-finished Swamp Ash. Once finished, it looks the same to me.

[LongMan]

Well yeah' date=' that's gonna be heavy. It was 14 FEET long. And I can't speak to un-finished Swamp Ash. Once finished, it looks the same to me.[/quote']

I did work as a carpenter in those days. Of course planks of that size are heavy, normally we were two people to put it on the saw bench. But that swamp ash guy was heavier than any regular wood we worked with (of course there are some exotic woods that are even heavier, but you don't get those in such big pieces over here). And you are right, finished they look similar. The regular ash has a slightly more even honey tone to it with a clear finish on, the swamp ash shows some grayish stripes in the texture. Btw.: That particular piece of wood was a dream to work with once I had cut it down to handy pieces[biggrin]

[SoSpecial]

Man' date=' that looks great! [/quote']

+1

[SoSpecial]

Something that I haven't seen quite answered is as to why the one (or more specifically' date=' the one finish) guitar is lighter than the others of the same model. I believe it was the Cherry ones that the OP said ran lighter than the other two finishes.

 

Not knowing where each was made, could it be that the supply of wood for one factory is getting lighter wood, and he just happened upon two made there, and they were both Cherry finished?

 

Sheila

 

Hi Sheila,

I'm the OP... yes, still curious about the finish part of the question. Your theory is possible, I suppose. It really is curious.