Have I been had?

[KX36]

The guitar auction that I won looked relatively legitimate to me. From what I've been reading since I suddenly have taken an interest in fake guitars, the knobs align with the strings well, the pickguard screw's in the right place, the tuners dont seem to be too near the edge of the headstock. All of which are problems that the other guitar discussed above from the same seller has.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EPIPHONE-LES-PAUL-CUSTOM-BLACK-BEAUTY-3-/220622294564

is more obviously a fake for the reasons above; although with these low quality photos, the only one I can say for sure isn't my just in my mind is the pickguard screw. Some of the other ones I think I can see the knobs don't align with the strings, but again, that might be in my mind.

 

One of my problems is that I didn't look at the seller's other items, I saw that they had a low feedback count but it was all positive. I have a low count myself. Another problem I had was that I was trying to buy a last minute gift secretly for someone who was in the room with me, the auction only had 3h left when I saw it and I thought I was going to get the exact make and model guitar I was looking for in the exact colour with a pretty flamed top for under RRP. It was on about 1/3 of RRP when I saw it and I put a semi-casual bid of half of RRP on it, totally expecting to get outbid.

 

The photos of the guitar itself looked ok, they didn't look like they're just from google and the guitar looked like it was alright quality from the photos, but I wasn't thinking about counterfeits at the time. I think from the actual listing on its own I wouldn't have suspected counterfeit anyway, its only the seller and their other listings that give it away. There's still a chance that the seller has a mixed load of real and fake stuff.

 

I do think the guitar in the photos may be real, but that doesn't mean that's the guitar I'd get. I'd hope it would be because as I say, the photos don't look like they're straight from google.

All the other fake ones they sell plus their random letter username, other counterfeit guitars, low buy it now prices on other items, anonymous bidding history....

 

I'm trying to get ebay to let me off the hook but they haven't got back to me yet. I haven't paid for it yet and it would take eBay telling me I'm obliged to do so before I would, and what I would do there is have a look at the guitar up close to make sure it's really fake; try to take the seller up on the returns policy; if that doesn't work, do the ebay "items doesn't match description" thing and eventually, see if I can get some form of security from PayPal, although paypal only really protects you up until the point where you sign for delivery.

[james_edward]

Paypal will cover you after delivery if - the item doesn't match the description and you make a claim and return it. As mentioned somewhere else here, you might even get away with getting a refund and not shipping it back, stranger things have happened.

[KX36]

The more I look, the more I think that based on the photos alone, only one of his gutiars is fake, the 3 pickup one referenced above. Can anyone else have a look and tell me what they think of the rest of the guitars... to me they look OK...

 

the knobs align with the pickguard screw, the headstocks look ok where there's a closeup of them, the epiphone logo looks to be positioned more or less ok. obviously the person looks a bit dodgy from the name and low feedback score, but is there a chance he just happens to have 1 lemon..

 

Someone please look at the rest of his and comment cos this is doing my head in.

 

PS. the person I got it for has just told me he doesn't want to learn guitar cos he thinks he's too dumb and will just give up >_<

 

 

UPDATE:

Got a response from eBay, basically saying they have no liability, won't interfere, won't cancel and spent the rest of the email telling me to work it out with the seller or face an Unpaid Item strike if i don't pay in 7 days. :(

 

have contacted the seller to try to get more info. haven't asked them to cancel it yet, but it would be entirely their discression if they want to.

[KX36]

you've really got an eye for fakes mate, i'm looking at the fakes thread on the mylespaul forum, comparing everything i can see and i can't tell.

 

wish i had your bloody eyes then I wouldn't be in this bloody mess.

 

Should I send them the photos from the listing or actually wait to recieve the item and then take my own?

[KX36]

Interesting that some of the photos appear to be fake if he's not using photos of the actual guitars on sale though...

[markyd79]

Dont pay please dont pay.

 

Ebay really dont care they just want there fees.

 

Paypal - Right this is where the fun begins. Do you have a credit card? A real one that is. If so then make the payment through paypal but with the credit card details. Trust me a credit card company will fight your corner much better if you decide to pay.

 

Paypal if your claim is succesful will issue you a refund which will be taken from there account. Right better pray there is money in there if not then you are SOL. Paypal will not let him go into a minus on his paypal account. Paypal will not refund the money out of themselves if they cant get the money off him again you will be stuck with a fake guitar.

 

All in all its a pretty shitty process. Legit sellers get burnt and the scammers get away with it. My paypal and ebay accounts dont have any accurate details on them apart from my CC details which i can remove. Thats how easy it is to rip people off :( :(

[KX36]

I would imagine the reason they can put "returns accepted" on ebay is that this account was set up for a short term with fake details and will disappear without a trace in a couple of weeks, leaving an empty paypal account and a fake address.

 

People are telling me just not to pay, but ebay is telling me i have a contractual obligation to pay and i can't get out of it unless the seller cancels the transaction.

 

On the other hand, there's not much chance of me going to court over it (as ebay said could potentially happen) if the other person hasn't given a real name or address; so i can't see much consequence of just not paying.

[markyd79]

I would imagine the reason they can put "returns accepted" on ebay is that this account was set up for a short term with fake details and will disappear without a trace in a couple of weeks' date=' leaving an empty paypal account and a fake address.

 

People are telling me just not to pay, but ebay is telling me i have a contractual obligation to pay and i can't get out of it unless the seller cancels the transaction.

 

On the other hand, there's not much chance of me going to court over it (as ebay said could potentially happen) if the other person hasn't given a real name or address; so i can't see much consequence of just not paying.[/quote']

 

 

:( :( :)

 

Just dont pay. Negative feedback (which you can reply too).

 

They wont take you to court and nothing will happen. Try and retract the bid just say you got made unemployed this morning and tough ****.

[colchar]

The more I look' date=' the more I think that based on the photos alone, only one of his gutiars is fake, the 3 pickup one referenced above. Can anyone else have a look and tell me what they think of the rest of the guitars... to me they look OK...

 

the knobs align with the pickguard screw, the headstocks look ok where there's a closeup of them, the epiphone logo looks to be positioned more or less ok. obviously the person looks a bit dodgy from the name and low feedback score, but is there a chance he just happens to have 1 lemon..

 

Someone please look at the rest of his and comment cos this is doing my head in.

 

PS. the person I got it for has just told me he doesn't want to learn guitar cos he thinks he's too dumb and will just give up >_<

 

 

UPDATE:

Got a response from eBay, basically saying they have no liability, won't interfere, won't cancel and spent the rest of the email telling me to work it out with the seller or face an Unpaid Item strike if i don't pay in 7 days. :(

 

have contacted the seller to try to get more info. haven't asked them to cancel it yet, but it would be entirely their discression if they want to.[/quote']

 

 

Just because the photos of guitars look good doesn't mean the guitars he will actually send out are good. Anyone can fake a photo. I was at my guitar teacher's house two days ago and had a '68 Les Paul of his in my hands. I coulda taken photos of it and then 'sold' it on eBay only to send the eventual buyer a ukulele or something. Having photos is proof of nothing, especially in the internet age.

[colchar]

you've really got an eye for fakes mate' date=' i'm looking at the fakes thread on the mylespaul forum, comparing everything i can see and i can't tell.

 

wish i had your bloody eyes then I wouldn't be in this bloody mess.

 

Should I send them the photos from the listing or actually wait to recieve the item and then take my own?[/quote']

 

Post about this at My Les Paul. I'm a member there and trust me, you will get definitive answers over there.

[ryan7olson7]

i dont want to confuse the issue but i owned a late 90's alpine white epi les paul custom, and it had that pinched split diamond inlay. as a matter of fact that black custom looks identical to the saien built one i had.

maybe its a really old bstock? better check with gibson though

[animalfarm]

 

Send the photos from the real guitar' date=' 'cause you don't know if the pics from the listings aren't faked ,too.

I think most of the photos of his listings are not from the guitars that he ships...:-

 

Peter[/quote']

 

It's tough learning what to look for, The following link is his "FeedBack" as a

seller. I believe the picture of the git you bid on is REAL, perhaps that's what you'll

get, unless he's using real pics as bait.

HOWEVER, click the link I posted, then look at the Guitar feedbacks - click on

"View Item" of similar guitars, note that PICTURE of guitar in Each "NEW" listing

is the same picture(s), over and over... Just something you learn to watch for.

(The 3 pups BB is definitely a fakeePhone).

 

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=jarbjarbnba&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

 

Tough call on the pay or not pay - he "could" file a dispute as a "non-payer",

might get your ebay use privileges revoked. OR, get the guitar, flip pickups and

see what stickers say underneath, check inside control cavity to see if pots

are FULL siz (EPi), or mini-pots, check with EPI themselves if necessary with pics

via email. IF not "real", the YOU can file on him as an "S.N.A.D." - Item Significantly

NOT as Described.

 

I had to do that on one Bozo, I paid within 2 mins, then...... no response. MAde MULTIPLE

attempts to contact, even called the bostid at home (FREAKED HIM OUT). He FINALLY sent the

SG to me... wrapped only in thin gig bag with label. DAMAGED like HELL, was listed as MINT.

Soooooo, in order to play the ebay game, I filed an item "SNAD", then left POSITIVE feedback

with a truthful commentary of transaction. (MIND GAMES) and detailed how I would never, ever

do business with seller again. Seller is no longer a "Registered user". I did get my money back,

and sold the Stagg SG on craigslist after I doctored up the damage.

 

Horror stories, yeah. MAKE EVERY ATTEMPT TO CONTACT SELLER and TALK ABOUT

what GUITAR you're going to get - emails/ebay messages are GOOD- they can be printed out

as evidence if necessary...

[Dannyboyee82]

I have not had a reply from the seller when I asked him directly how he can sell these guitars 'new' at less than half the retail price. That alone, KX36, should tell you these are fakes. You could spend hours comparing photographs, but the real evidence is in the price, his low feedback count and the fact that he is unwilling to answer my direct question. Do not pay him!! Unless you want a guitar made out of papier-mâché!!

 

As markyd says, you can reply to negative feedback.. I'll bet you that after you leave your reply explaining they're fakes, his account will vanish, only to be restarted under a different name. You watch.

[KX36]

I didn't get much reply from her when I asked for further details a couple of days ago, but yesterday I sent a message asking them to cancel the transaction. I got a polite, professional response in good english and in good time with no resistance to my request to cancel. I just have to accept the cancelation when I'm home from work and can get on eBay.

 

I am really starting to think they're an honest person with a dodgy guitar or 2 and that most of them may well be real. They're just not very good at making themself presentable as a seller. Their username looks like random letters but does contain their first name "Jen", so maybe that's always their handle. My own handle is just as alphanumeric, although it doesn''t look like i've just mashed my hand on the keyboard, and I use my real name as my handle on ebay. I'll pay attention to them and see if they end up as a powerseller or the account vanishes. The other bidders identities are hidden, which would make me suspicious that they're using another account to push up the price. But they use papal, they accept returns and they had no quarrel with me changing my mind; which all look alright to me. You can't really hold a low score against someone if its 100% positive; they may be just starting out as a seller, which can sometimes mean other people are put off and you get a better deal through less competition.

 

I'd like to thank everyone here for all the help they've given me over the last few days. Yous guys have been awesome and I owe the lot of you a pint.

[Nattsvart]

Well, I must comment you for your faith in your fellow man. You seem to be a nice person who generally believes the best of people, and as a personality trait that is a really nice one. If you can keep on to that thru the years, I would be glad for you.

 

Myself I do not share that positive opinion. Perhaps it’s a natural professional side effect of my job, but “if it looks like a turd, and it smells like a turd, it is probably a turd even if it says Hershey Bar on the wrapper”.

 

If the such a seller sells other fake guitars in the that specific way, and for those prices and in that manner, my experience tells me that all their guitars will be fake. Bought from the same Chinese store, who in turn gets their guitars from several different pirate copy factories (which is why the quality is so varied). The fact that they readily accepts a cancellation and return is because it keeps them in business longer. If you get your money back or can cancel the order you wont send complaints that may shut them off or make people not want to buy their products. And of course, when it’s getting “hot under the feet” the return and warranty assurances evaporate. A while after a new account will be started. If they are smart, they take new poster pictures but sometimes they are so daft that they even use the same ones.

 

You can feel quite assured that not a single guitar that person sells is genuine, they are all fake, just differently well made fakes.

 

But, if you can manage to stay away from my view-point of humanity (all members of this forum excluded of course, haha!) all the better for you. Treasure your illusions, when lost they can never be regained.

[KX36]

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/jarbjarbnba

 

"No longer a resigsterred user"

 

Pretty much case closed.

 

This only shows that I, along with probably some more people, complained to ebay and ebay removed them without really investigating; but I think it's safe to say the person and goods were dodgy.

[colchar]

And they had only been a member since March.