HB sized p-90 why not?

[Capn Greenfog]

I'm upgrading my Epi LP classic soon and have a ? I'm ordering a high $ vintage wiring kit, pickups and eventually the nut and bridge. I play through a champion 600. I wanted real Fender tube tone in a small pkg and ain't no way I can afford a real Champ. I'm ordering a 8in sp. and someday a 1x12 cab but anyway, it's my guitar that's hurting my sound. Every amp I've ever played this axe through tells me the same thing. pickups and wiring are junk. Bridge PU weak, tinny and devoid of any "meat". The neck is an overpowering, booming, muddy mess. when I upgrade I want to beef up the bridge PU for crunchy rhythm and leads but I really want to clean up the neck. this brings me to my point sorry I'm longwinded!

I started thinking I might like that single coil sound at the neck. A friend has a LP knockoff with real p-90s so I have a reference. I go researching and asking around but I can't get much info. It seems difficult to find a HB p-90 sized for 1 7/8 string width and I'm not sure I can use the same pots and/or cap that comes in the kit.

Anybody have suggestions as to whether this p-90 idea is a hassle or if I could achieve my goal with the SD JAZZ/JB or any other insights.

[bynapkinart]

just grab a P94. your avatar is horrifying.

[bynapkinart]

http://www.bg-pups.com/h90.html

 

those might work too

[ladyscaglyc]

GFS Mean 90 in HB size.

Impressive P90 sound for short money.

[eor]

owned the bg pups pure 90. amazing. a definite step up from the gfs, if you can swing it.

[Capn Greenfog]

That's my sister's kid, Korner Ova Voxamp.

 

Seriously, thanks for the quick reply. The P94 or the BG looks like the ultimate way to go. I may have to go that route. I sent an email to GFS asking about the Mean90 which I see is backordered. It's actually more in my budget but I'm unsure about string width and the fact that they advertise it as reverse wound. I'm not sure I would want that since I'm pairing it with a HB.

So now I know what's available so, when I get one can I just slap that puppy in or is it not gonna gee-haw with the electronics intended for a HB?

This is probably a silly ? but I really don't know.:-

[Capn Greenfog]

owned the bg pups pure 90. amazing. a definite step up from the gfs' date=' if you can swing it.[/quote']

 

That's probably what I'll do. I was impressed with what I read and the fact you can get it rev wound or not and it's a little cheaper than the Gibson. I'm still not sure what I'll pair it with. Something fat. A JB or something.

I know the sounds I want from the guitar. I'm just too uninformed to know how to get there.

[Notes_Norton]

I put GFS Mean 90s on my LTD, and they sound almost as good as the Gibson P90s on my ES-330

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ?

[Capn Greenfog]

I'm considering the Mean90 mainly because of price & my budget but I wish GFS would shoot me a mail. I need to know more about it.

[bynapkinart]

Your question about the electronics...it shouldn't be at odds with anything. Mainly what you find in traditional Gibson setups is that the volume pots are 300k and tones are 500k with P90s, unlike the standard 500k for all with humbuckers. It will affect tone, but it's not always a terrible thing. I think 300k makes the neck especially muddy and the bridge a little less "interesting." I have all 500k in my Casino, and those combined with the deep richness of the hollowbody really bring out the best of the highs and lows of the P90. They just open up a lot more.

 

So if you want to go to a Gibson setup, buy a couple of 300k split shaft CTS pots and replace your volume pots. Otherwise your 500k's will really make them shine a lot better.

 

I do recommend getting some nice caps though, to soothe the P90s for quieter stuff. I put some Mojo Vitamin T's in my Casino, for the vintage tone, and I love them.

[eor]

fair warning- there is a lead time with bg pickups because they are all made to order (in the usa). took a little under 30 days for me to get mine. still totally worth it. bryan from bg posts at the harmony central electric guitars fourm, so that may be a quicker way to contact him (forget his name at the moment, nor_cal guitar something...) i know he'll give you a discount if you're an hc fourm member. he's pretty helpful if you have questions, too.

[Vic Flick]

I'm considering the Mean90 mainly because of price & my budget but I wish GFS would shoot me a mail. I need to know more about it.

 

Mean 90s are a great choice' date=' I had them in an Epi Lucille and they sounded great. From an interview with Jay from GFS:

 

[b']Question:[/b] Please talk to us about the much anticipated Mean 90 pickups

 

Jay: The Mean 90’s are finally here. We’ve had really enormous success with the Dream 90- which uses a narrow, heavily overwound coil and flat magnet structure to recreate a cool P90 sound that mount right into any standard humbucker mounting ring- but we seriously jacked up the upper mids and high end. They’re warm enough but really drive an amp in a way that single coils usually don’t.

 

The idea behind the Mean 90 was to get a more vintage P90 tone- so we went with a fairly accurate wide and flat P90 coil, two Alnico magnets, a non ferrous German Silver baseplate- but we slightly overwind the coil and slightly “age” the magnets- The result is a humbucker sized P90 that sounds warmer and fuller than the competition, but still retains the beautiful shimmering high end and mid presence- Oh yeah- they’re all under $40 each. We’ve had a devil of a time getting these right, and they are by far the most expensive to produce, but now they’re here and they sound quite good!

[ladyscaglyc]

I understand the "Got to have it now" symptom that comes with G.A.S.

I've even cut into a roll of blonde tolex to recover a perfectly fine Fender head because my brother & I hadn't

finished building the cabinets the tolex was intended for! Doh!

 

So, with that in mind, GFS (Jay) will have the Mean90 available soon I'm sure.

In regard to the electrics, my Joe Pass has 500 pots & I simply wired the Mean90 with a "railroad splice"*

to the orig. neck wiring for the EpiHB.

 

* Please no hate mail for not ripping out the old electrics with replacing, reaming, scratching & soldering.)

 

 

I have not seen/heard any issues at all with the single & humbucker combo.

The pole/string spacing was spot on, fit & finish was perfect, too.

 

If you can just hold on a little while, I think you'll be very pleased with the GFS PU.

[wiggy]

+1 on the GFS Mean 90.

 

I have one in the neck position on my Dot Studio paired with a Gibson 57 at the bridge and the combination works brilliantly.

[Capn Greenfog]

Wow, a lot to respond to. Thanks though!

The RS Guitarworks vintage kit I'm ordering has 500k CTS pots and paper & oil Jensen caps .022 bridge .015 neck.

Would that .015 be fine?

I have no problem waiting as my funds are limited. As weekly expenses allow, my plan in order is to- put an 8in sp in my Champion, wiring kit for gtr, pickups, 1x12 cab.

If I go the BG or Gibby route It's gonna be a while. I think that would be the BEST way to go though.

If I go with GFS Mean90 neck & Fat Pat or VEH bridge I think I would be satisfied for awhile($75 for the pair/BG is $90 just for the pure 90) but I'm wondering about the rvs winding issue. They make that Mean90 neck rvs wound BECAUSE they're pairing it with a bridge mean90. Is this something that only affects hum and wouldn't affect tone?

If I have to save an extra hundred for p-ups to be satisfied I will but it will take longer.

 

I can always sell the GFS's if I'm not satisfied. Or keep them for another project since I have no doubt they're nice.

[Capn Greenfog]

Vin, I just read your's and wiggy's posts. No problems, huh?

[Vic Flick]

If I go with GFS Mean90 neck & Fat Pat or VEH bridge I think I would be satisfied for awhile($75 for the pair/BG is $90 just for the pure 90) but I'm wondering about the rvs winding issue. They make that Mean90 neck rvs wound BECAUSE they're pairing it with a bridge mean90. Is this something that only affects hum and wouldn't affect tone?

 

It really won't matter. A humbucker has two coils which are reversed wound (just like the 2 Mean 90s). So the Mean 90 (or any other single coil for that matter) is going to be wound the same as one humbucker coil and reversed wound to the other.

[i Can Tuna Guitar]

I love RS Guitarworks - where else can you get $30 worth of stuff for $120?

[Capn Greenfog]

I love RS Guitarworks - where else can you get $30 worth of stuff for $120?

 

Well, if I knew what I was doing I would find the same quality parts for a lot cheaper price. I barely know how to solder. I just got a computer for Christmas. Never had one. I've been playing gtr for 11 yrs but when comes to electronics and what's out there all I can say is-

 

HELP!

[bynapkinart]

Those PIO caps are great, same basic thing that I have. I went .022 on both, but I think it's fine. The neck gets so fat anyways, the extra little bit of capacitance doesn't really have an effect. .015 should be fine though.

 

why are you upgrading the speaker if you're already getting a cab? if you wait, i'm sure the cab will be used far more often than the 8in speaker. I have a Vox AC4TV8, similar to your Champ except its bigger, and the matching cab for it. I only ever play thru the combo's speaker when I'm going somewhere I don't want to bring my rig to.

[Capn Greenfog]

I play mostly at home in the evening. I have close neighbors, live in town. but when I go to my friend's house to play a bit louder I'll need more speaker. For right now though we've been miking it and running into his PA. Then the other day I blew my Weber 6in. ceramic smoothe cone. Now I'll try a 8in alnico ribbed cone. They're only $35.

I'm on a real tight budget so everything will have to be done in increments. What with my desperate desire to upgrade my guitar I can't afford a cab at the moment. The problem is the 12in has to be 4ohm, Fender rec. low wattage sp when I emailed them. I can't buy an Epi valve jr cab sp is 8ohm. Speaker I want is $75 and typical cab on ebay is well over 100.

The main thing for me is despite budget I want every component I replace on my little poorman's blues rig to be the best quality I can afford. 300 for pickups and wiring would hurt but I don't want to buy no crap. If I can make that Epi sound sweet I'll keep it the rest of my life. Same time if I can save a $ and get the same Quality I'm certainly game.

[bynapkinart]

don't quote me on this, but I think with your 4ohm output you can plug in an 8 or 16 ohm speaker. I believe with tube transformers it is more ohmage = ok, less ohmage = very very bad.

 

I had a crappy time trying to find a cheap cab that had a 16ohm stock speaker in it, and ended up going with the matching cab on my Vox because that was one of the only cabs with a 16ohm speaker stock. I had a 4 ohm cab (before I sold it, i'm sorry) that was supposed to be not good at all for the transformer in my Vox, which was rated at 16 ohm.

 

I think it is best to match it, but I don't think it's dangerous to plug in a speaker with higher ohmage, seeing as more ohmage = more resistance = less load on the transformer.

 

don't run out and buy the Epi cab yet though...someone else who knows more than me should weigh in on this before I'm responsible for blowing your transformer. I believe it should be ok though.

[bynapkinart]

"I wouldn't recommend a mismatch between your output transformer (OT) and the speaker load, as it could possibly damage your OT. In general it's good to match the amp's rating, so if your amp's OT has a 4-ohm output, then whatever you plug into the amp should be 4-ohms. Keep in mind that a mismatch between the speaker impedance and the OT's tap WILL change the tone. Depending on the direction of the mismatch (either higher or lower), you either increase the stress on the tubes or lighten their load (assuming you have a tube amp). A mismatch is a bit more forgiving in a solid state amp. For example, increasing the load, like an 8 ohm load (speaker) plugged into a 4 ohm tap (OT), gives a more compressed type of sound.

 

If you are going to mismatch, then it is usually safe going up or down one impedance step. For example, if you have an 8-ohm OT, it would be OK to plug into a 4-ohm speaker load (down one step) or into a 16-ohm speaker load (up one step).

 

With older vintage amps and/or old output transformers, you want to be careful miss-matching the impedance, because these older OT's may be less able to handle the miss-match. If you have a new amp, with a new, strong output transformer, you would most likely be okay with an impedance miss-match one step up or down. When in doubt, refer to your amp's owner's manual or contact the manufacturer."

 

 

 

Quote is from South Valley Vintage Amps: http://www.svvintageamps.com/speaker.php#question9

[Capn Greenfog]

"I wouldn't recommend a mismatch between your output transformer (OT) and the speaker load, as it could possibly damage your OT. In general it's good to match the amp's rating, so if your amp's OT has a 4-ohm output, then whatever you plug into the amp should be 4-ohms. Keep in mind that a mismatch between the speaker impedance and the OT's tap WILL change the tone. Depending on the direction of the mismatch (either higher or lower), you either increase the stress on the tubes or lighten their load (assuming you have a tube amp). A mismatch is a bit more forgiving in a solid state amp. For example, increasing the load, like an 8 ohm load (speaker) plugged into a 4 ohm tap (OT), gives a more compressed type of sound.

 

I've run it to an 8ohm 12 and it did indeed give a more compressed sound, less volume. To much so for me. I want to sqeeze every dbl of volume I can out of this thing when I go to what we refer to as the "juke joint". My buds make fun of me and my cereal box amp but I believe after all I've read that with the right speaker & cab and a souped up Epi- THEY WILL EAT CROW. I won't be able to outdo a Blues deluxe but I'm not trying to. I ran this rig into a line 6 cab set at 4ohms and was well rewarded. That was a 2x12 so I have no doubt I can push 1 12 with a Bad Monkey no problemo.

 

I spotted a post somewhere for an empty Epi 1x12 cab for $50 already sold though.

[Capn Greenfog]

Vin, could you or wiggy or notes norton measure across your strings low E high E at neck and tell me if it's 1 7/8 just to satisfy my curiosity. Still no email from GFS. I'm not opposed to spending $75 to find out if I like the SC/HB pairing. Who knows? maybe when I'm done I'll say,"why would I want to spend another 2 bills on p-ups.