Finished? Casino upgrades...

[bynapkinart]

Well some of you might remember the last time that I said this guitar was done upgrade-wise:

 

I still wasn't getting a lot of high end or balance to the pickups, though. I had a lot of issues dialing the sound that I wanted, partially because the pickups are overwound and have chrome covers on them that don't really lend too much high end. I really wanted that full, open, P90 chime that I heard in my head and that I knew was possible out of these pickups. So, i cut the chrome covers off (yes, cut...the commercial solder holding them to the pickup was so strong that it wouldn't come off any other way). I also took the tape off and took turns off the winding (the output went from about 8.9k and 8.5k to 8.4k and 7.8k). To finish it all off, I put plastic covers on, and thanks to forum member Twang, got a sweet custom black pickguard to match it all.

 

The end result is something that sounds a lot more alive than the original did. Not saying the original setup was bad or anything, its just that with the pickups the way they are now the guitar sounds stronger, clearer, and more articulate than the old setup was ever capable of delivering. Plus, now I can use the tone controls effectively without dialing out what little high end the original pickups had to offer.

 

UPDATE: Took these pics today out in the sunlight, thought they looked much better than the ones I had up so I'm replacing those. I still have to get a sound test up, hopefully I'll have some time later this week to record it all and hash it together!

 

[wardog]

[CharlieS.]

Looks like the '66 ES-330 that I wanted but didn't have the $3K for. Nice job! I've got the same one, and I had problems with the electronics as well. Nothing as drastic, just a little ground wire re-soldering.

[AS90]

Looks great!

[Swoop]

Looks great!

 

Looks pretty cool. Definitely a bit different with black pickups and pickguard, in a good way. Mine is currently in the hands of my tech, being rewired, bone nut fitted, etc. Still contemplating different saddles and fitting the longer tailpiece from Allparts. I've kept the pickups stock. Can't wait to get it back!

[bynapkinart]

Thanks all! It definitely looks different with the black covers and pickguard, but I like it a lot. Seems to make the red really stand out. The important thing though is that the covers allow the pickups to really sing, where the chrome covers were dampening the sound. I forgot to mention that I potted the pickups after unwinding them a bit, and that was by far the least enjoyable process I've ever been through. Melted parrafin gets everywhere. It looks exactly like my friend's 66 ES330 now, though...same neck joint, same body shape, different headstock. Sounds better, though \:D/

[CharlieS.]

I am now seriously considering black covers.

[bynapkinart]

I am now seriously considering black covers.

 

Do it! They do sound so much clearer and more open. At the very least, they look killer :D

 

I didn't really consider it till I saw my buddy's 66 ES330 with all black plastic covers and pickguard. I didn't decide to go for it till I saw this:

 

Had to do it then, especially after hearing the improvements to the sound of my friend's 66 when we swapped the chrome for the plastic. Huge, surprising improvement in tone.

[pohatu771]

I've wanted to change my Casino over to black for quite a while now, but since I'm happy with the sound (other than one scratchy pot), I've always put my limited money into other more essential things. Soon it will happen.

[CharlieS.]

Do it! They do sound so much clearer and more open. At the very least, they look killer :D

 

I didn't really consider it till I saw my buddy's 66 ES330 with all black plastic covers and pickguard. I didn't decide to go for it till I saw this:

 

Had to do it then, especially after hearing the improvements to the sound of my friend's 66 when we swapped the chrome for the plastic. Huge, surprising improvement in tone.

 

 

That settles it...

[BoBoBlues]

Well sir, if it sounds anywhere near as good as it looks, "ya done good"!

[bynapkinart]

Well sir, if it sounds anywhere near as good as it looks, "ya done good"!

 

Thanks!! I updated the first post with better pics, hope they do it better justice than the grainy phone photos from before.

[mgrasso]

The black pickup covers really makes the cherry look great.

I had considered this on mine, since mine is the cherry sunburst, I kept the covers silver.

 

Had a new bone nut and US electronics put in.

Amazing difference in the sound.

Just took new photos.

 

 

 

 

[bynapkinart]

The black pickup covers really makes the cherry look great.

I had considered this on mine, since mine is the cherry sunburst, I kept the covers silver.

 

Had a new bone nut and US electronics put in.

Amazing difference in the sound.

 

I like that a lot! Lookswise, I think chrome vs plastic on a sunburst is a little harder than a cherry, but then again I have an obsession with cherry and I think black looks phenomenal on it. Sunburst is a lot harder though...I found this:

I can't decide which I like better! I like the standard setup a lot because it looks more Epiphoney (lol)...I do like the chrome and white pickguard with the E on it. If you're a lennon fan, then obviously it looks like THAT Casino.

 

The black hardware looks killer though, and it brings out the burst. It also sounds amazing, a huge difference. That's a difficult one.

[Swoop]

The black pickup covers really makes the cherry look great.

I had considered this on mine, since mine is the cherry sunburst, I kept the covers silver.

 

Had a new bone nut and US electronics put in.

Amazing difference in the sound.

Just took new photos.

 

 

That's a fantastic looking Casino. They really look great with a bit of red in the burst like yours has. I'm guessing it's a Korean built model? I've seen one or two Korean made ones on EBay which have a hint of red in the finish, and they look fantastic. Nowadays the finish is a relatively plain, but still nice, two tone sunburst like my Casino. The Elitists also feature some red in the finish, but of course have the dark, walnut coloured back and neck. I wish they'd show the grain on the neck of the standard Casinos. They do it on the Dot and other archtops, so why reserve it just for the top of the line Casinos?

 

Anyway, this thread is really reminding me how much I miss my Casino. It's been with my guitar tech for nearly a month now, waiting to be rewired, and have a nut replacement done. I really want it back!

[mgrasso]

That's a fantastic looking Casino. They really look great with a bit of red in the burst like yours has. I'm guessing it's a Korean built model? I've seen one or two Korean made ones on EBay which have a hint of red in the finish, and they look fantastic. Nowadays the finish is a relatively plain, but still nice, two tone sunburst like my Casino. The Elitists also feature some red in the finish, but of course have the dark, walnut coloured back and neck. I wish they'd show the grain on the neck of the standard Casinos. They do it on the Dot and other archtops, so why reserve it just for the top of the line Casinos?

 

Anyway, this thread is really reminding me how much I miss my Casino. It's been with my guitar tech for nearly a month now, waiting to be rewired, and have a nut replacement done. I really want it back!

 

Thanks Swoop.

 

I agree, the little fade of red makes this look great.

You are right, this is a '96, one of the first Korean reissues (Peerless)

It's a shame the do not keep the color scheme.

 

bynapkinart - That does look good. I like the black covers with the black pickguard.

If I was to pickup another casino, I would try that combination, but like keeping this on with the silver and white.

 

I am very lucky, my guys upgraded the nut and wiring within a week.

Pittsburgh Guitars.

They did everything for $90 us.

 

I decided not to buy a guitar this year and spend on upgrading all of mine.

I am half way there.

 

Though the last time I was there there was an Epi precision bass from 01 on the wall for $150.

Brought my IT manager to look at it (he's been playing bass for over 30 years).

He said it played great. Intonation all the way up the neck.

I don't play, but always wanted to, so, I got it for $130 with gig bag.

Time to learn. But I have been told not to play it through my electric amps, but to get a bass amp.

 

I just won an Epi bass amp of e-bay for $22.50.

Should be here next week.

 

Photos to come in the Bass and Amp section when I get the time.

 

Mark

[cubbiesinger]

Very nice!

[tweed1]

I'd like to say that the plastic covers make a big difference, but it's hard to tell whether the improvement in tone on my Casino was due to the change, from metal, or the completely different pickups I finally went with. However, in talking to both Jason Lollar (actually his foreman) and Pete Biltoft, I was told that the plastic covers would yield a much warmer tone on a P90, which was my goal. And that the metal covers would give a little more bite. Since these two are pretty well known for their P90s, I went with their recommendation on plastic for the sound that I wanted. Both will however rewind the stock pickups, if you want to stay with metal. Since I have a luthier do the improvements to my guitars, I do all of the changes at once, rather than a step at a time, as it saves me extra trips and I know what I want to do before I go in. One thing about changing P90 pickups on a Casino that I didn't consider was that the top of the Casino is obviously arched, while most P90 pickups are flat on the bottom. Since I was shimming my Biltofts, I made up the difference in the shims. This is something worth considering when changing from the stock metal covers.

 

But, I can tell you that by the time I (OK, my luthier) got done, my Casino was a totally different cat. The changes were: to Gotoh tuners, whole new bone nut, Biltoft pickups (required shims to get the right height, but man, what a sound), all new CTS/Switchcraft components and new wiring, fret dress and polish, change the strings from 10's to 11's and finally replace the strap buttons with strap locks (including moving the upper one to the bass horn, from the base of the neck). If there was anything else productive that I could have done, I probably would have done that, too. I'm sure that I could have bought a JL Casino for what I ended up spending, and I know that if I ever sell it (doubtful), I'll never get my money back. But I can't stand owning a stock guitar, or one that looks like everyone else's, which is evident from the decision to go with cream P90 covers on a natural body. I like it and that's what matters. I play my Casino 3X as much as my Rickenbacker, which cost 3X as much. So it was worth every penny.

[bynapkinart]

I'd like to say that the plastic covers make a big difference, but it's hard to tell whether the improvement in tone on my Casino was due to the change, from metal, or the completely different pickups I finally went with. However, in talking to both Jason Lollar (actually his foreman) and Pete Biltoft, I was told that the plastic covers would yield a much warmer tone on a P90, which was my goal. And that the metal covers would give a little more bite.

 

That's interesting, that hasn't been my experience so far (switching from metal to plastic actually gave me a little more high end and a lot more punch, but did wonders for the low end as well...IMO just opened up the sound a ton).

 

From Jason Lollar's website, on the difference:

 

Your first decision is whether or not you want to use the chrome covers. Something to consider is that with plastic covers the pickup will have a little more high end—the metal covers will reduce the top end a little bit. Also, the metal covers have a tendency to feed back microphonically, even if the pickups are potted to an extreme.

 

That statement along with hearing the difference it made with my friend's vintage 330 helped me to make my decision, because I wanted a warmer and brighter tone overall, and not such a muddied compressed sound. It could also be that your new Biltofts are probably much closer to a vintage spec winding than the Epi's that I unwinded a bit. Either way, I'm glad that you found what you needed to get the tone you wanted! I'd love to see a natty Casino with anything different than chrome with a black switch washer (not knocking Lennon fans, as I'm one myself...its just that you can only see so much of what is essentially the same guitar before you yearn to see something different. Hence, my changes!!) Post a pic or two if you can!!

[tweed1]

Yep. The difference could just be semantics. When I was talking to both of them, I was looking for underwound (especially at the neck) PUs to get a more mellow sound than I was getting from the Lollar I had on my Melody Maker. Both encouraged me to go to plastic covers, over metal, to acheive that sound. Bite was one description used, as was edge and I can't remeber which has said which. Neither was what I was looking for. Pete's solution to the sound that I was looking for out my neck pickup was to build a 5% underwound, with an AlNico V magnet, north up under a plastic cover. Your description of more open with plastic is surely the case. Almost sounds acoustic. Before the change, I rarely, if ever used my neck pickup.

 

I bought my natural Casino to match my MapleGlo Ric with black hardware. My intention was to do black pickups, bridge, tailpiece, knobs and tuners on it. But when I got it, the natural was darker than the picture (one of the downsides to buying off of ebay) as noted in my previous posting as to whether the color was really natural. The last thing that I wanted was a JL look-a-like. So I went with cream plastic instead and love the look. The biggest problem is that not everyone's version of cream match. The covers are slightly darker and "pinker" than the binding. And the closest knobs that I've found so far (pictured) are slightly "greener". I'll continue to fine tune. I really like the dark red / black combo at the beginning of the thread, though.

[jerrymac]

Yep. The difference could just be semantics. When I was talking to both of them, I was looking for underwound (especially at the neck) PUs to get a more mellow sound than I was getting from the Lollar I had on my Melody Maker. Both encouraged me to go to plastic covers, over metal, to acheive that sound. Bite was one description used, as was edge and I can't remeber which has said which. Neither was what I was looking for. Pete's solution to the sound that I was looking for out my neck pickup was to build a 5% underwound, with an AlNico V magnet, north up under a plastic cover. Your description of more open with plastic is surely the case. Almost sounds acoustic. Before the change, I rarely, if ever used my neck pickup.

 

I bought my natural Casino to match my MapleGlo Ric with black hardware. My intention was to do black pickups, bridge, tailpiece, knobs and tuners on it. But when I got it, the natural was darker than the picture (one of the downsides to buying off of ebay) as noted in my previous posting as to whether the color was really natural. The last thing that I wanted was a JL look-a-like. So I went with cream plastic instead and love the look. The biggest problem is that not everyone's version of cream match. The covers are slightly darker and "pinker" than the binding. And the closest knobs that I've found so far (pictured) are slightly "greener". I'll continue to fine tune. I really like the dark red / black combo at the beginning of the thread, though.

 

Actually I think it looks pretty good. Sometimes I think we notice slight differences like you mention because we're looking at them so closely. But I wouldn't be surprised that most people looking at your Casino wouldn't notice the slight color variations.

 

Now for the important question: Is that a stock tailpiece on the Ric??? I had a 360-12v64, I remember putting two strings in each hole, what a pain!!! I ended up putting an R tailpiece on it.

 

[tweed1]

That's not a stock tailpiece. The local luthier I use is Mark Arnquist. If you've spent any amount of time on the Ric Forum, you know who he is. I've had him improve my 360 and while doing his magic, he found that my R was cracked. Since I was converting to toasters anyway, I thought that I would complete the v63 look with a trapeze tailpiece, which I think looks better. Mark knows a guy in Hawaii that makes 12 hole tailpieces so I picked one up, had it powdercoated to match the black factory finish (along with the toaster covers and bridge cover) and voila, string changing became a somewhat simpler ordeal. The new mounting holes line up with the existing ones, so no harm done if I change back. Mark did all of the work on my Melody Maker and the Casino, too. He's become a good friend and is an entertaining story teller. His Ric improvement package takes an iconic guitar and makes it what the factory should have done.

 

Thanks for the comments on the color choice. Since I don't have the time or chops to actually do the work on my guitars myself, I've relegated my involvement into the look (the amp in the picture is my design and build). The detail of parts not quite matching, colorwise, quite frankly will continue to bother me until I can find matching knobs. But I'd like to think that I get a little wood on the ball once in a while. Anybody need cream knobs? I have 8 sets just sitting around.

[jerrymac]

That's not a stock tailpiece. The local luthier I use is Mark Arnquist. If you've spent any amount of time on the Ric Forum, you know who he is. I've had him improve my 360 and while doing his magic, he found that my R was cracked. Since I was converting to toasters anyway, I thought that I would complete the v63 look with a trapeze tailpiece, which I think looks better. Mark knows a guy in Hawaii that makes 12 hole tailpieces so I picked one up, had it powdercoated to match the black factory finish (along with the toaster covers and bridge cover) and voila, string changing became a somewhat simpler ordeal. The new mounting holes line up with the existing ones, so no harm done if I change back. Mark did all of the work on my Melody Maker and the Casino, too. He's become a good friend and is an entertaining story teller. His Ric improvement package takes an iconic guitar and makes it what the factory should have done.

 

Thanks for the comments on the color choice. Since I don't have the time or chops to actually do the work on my guitars myself, I've relegated my involvement into the look (the amp in the picture is my design and build). The detail of parts not quite matching, colorwise, quite frankly will continue to bother me until I can find matching knobs. But I'd like to think that I get a little wood on the ball once in a while. Anybody need cream knobs? I have 8 sets just sitting around.

 

I have heard of Mark, did you have him replace the nut with his wider spaced one???

 

I remember hearing about the black tailpieces cracking, sometimes rather violently. You're lucky it didn't happen when you were playing!!!

 

Nice collection...

[tweed1]

Yes. I was truely blown away at how much difference the extra 3/64ths spacing made. There's also something he does with the bridge, in conjunction with the nut widening, but I don't recall exactly what it is. He did all of his other usual stuff, too. Filing the truss rod cover and pick guard, replacing the truss rod nut, cleaning up the neck and fret board. I recently got his latest update, the extra crispy knob. He, like most Ric players, feel like the 5th knob doesn't really do anything. Unless you use the Ric-O-Sound box (or split the signal into two amps), it really doesn't. So what he does is add a cap that basically replicates the top boost on a Vox amp, but adjustable. It only works in the r-o-s jack and is totally and easily reversable. With a JangleBox, one can easily nail the piercing McGuinn sound he's famous for.

 

Something happens to the metal strength of the R tailpiece when they blacken it. I once heard that the chances of a black R failing, over a chrome one was 3-4 times. Considering that at the time, I was using Pyramids, which put even more tension on the tailpiece than others, it's amazing it didn't blow. I wouldn't want to be around when it did.

[Pumpkinhead]

I still wasn't getting a lot of high end or balance to the pickups, though. I had a lot of issues dialing the sound that I wanted, partially because the pickups are overwound and have chrome covers on them that don't really lend too much high end. I really wanted that full, open, P90 chime that I heard in my head and that I knew was possible out of these pickups. So, i cut the chrome covers off (yes, cut...the commercial solder holding them to the pickup was so strong that it wouldn't come off any other way). I also took the tape off and took turns off the winding (the output went from about 8.9k and 8.5k to 8.4k and 7.8k). To finish it all off, I put plastic covers on, and thanks to forum member Twang, got a sweet custom black pickguard to match it all.

Wow! A stunning set of mods there Bynapkinart.

Sorry if I'm late to this thread but it's very relevant to my situation. I have just bought a '97 Peerless Casino in the same cherry finish and I'm having exactly the same issues with the sound - the pickups (especially the neck) are very dull and lifeless (particularly when compared to my other P90 guitars, a '56 Historic Goldtop LP and a Yamaha SA503 TVL).

What I didn't realise was that, because of the unusual pickup sizes, there are very few options for replacement Casino pickups! It seems to boil down to either Lollars (they sell a special "short" Casino neck pickup) or Kent Armstrong. Given that I'm in the UK the Lollars will be very expensive after shipping and taxes. I was wondering where you got the plastic covers to fit the Casino as if I could source some of those I might be able to reach a (cheaper) compromise by getting a UK builder to rewind the Epiphone pickups and maybe get a bit more "chime" out of them with the plastic covers.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for this detailed thread. It shows there might still be hope for me!