Need some help with Epiphone Genesis wiring schematic

[Lloyd Loar]

So here's the deal. I found a Genesis deposited beside a dumpster in my hometown, along with an old Rickenbacker TR7 amp (that works quite well) and a Silvertone acoustic that needed a crack in the back patched up.

 

The Genesis has its own share of issues.

 

It sounds from the other posts I've seen here that the cracks / breaks around the input jack are fairly common. This one has that in spades - the jack is hanging out of the back currently, but I'm working on a fix. I want this guitar in playable condition, and other than that I don't care about minor issue with cosmetics. But the real problem is with the wiring.

 

It looks like the original wiring was totally messed up by the original owner - soldering is a mess, and frankly the electronics barely work. I can get a good tone out of it with the neck pickup wide open, but anything else (including the coil tap function) is messed up.

 

I cannot for the life of me locate a wiring diagram for the Genesis. So I was wondering if someone who has one might be willing to either open the back up and take some photos, or maybe do a quick sketch. I apologize for a question like this / huge favor, but this seems like a great guitar from what little sound I've gotten out of it. I want to get it working properly, and right now it's in horrible shape.

 

Anyone willing to help out with some info?

[Whitmore Willy]

Lloyd,

 

Welcome to the forum.

I don't have a Genesis and don't pretend to know anything about them.

Are you looking for 2 Humbuckers w/ 1 Volume Control, 2 Tone Controls & 3-Way Toggle Switch + push pull for coil tap?

I believe there might be a few around the forum. Maybe one of the members will chime in.

In the mean time have a look here:

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiring_resources_guitar_wiring_diagrams.2_pickup_guitar_wiring_diagrams/

 

Willy

[Lloyd Loar]

Willy, that's an amazing resource. Thanks! I think that'll do what I need it to.

 

Now, back to soldering!

[Whitmore Willy]

I think that'll do what I need it to.Now, back to soldering!

 

Happy to help.

 

Don't be a stranger and let us know how it turns out...don't forget pics of your new "find".

 

Willy

[animalfarm]

So here's the deal.

I found a Genesis deposited beside a dumpster in my hometown,

along with an old Rickenbacker TR7 amp (that works quite well),

and a Silvertone acoustic that needed a crack in the back patched up.

 

 

UNREAL....

Welcome to our lil' Forum! And Congrats on the find! POST PICS!

Even in it's "hosed" condition! We Love before and After pics!

[brianh]

Congrats on your find Lloyd, very cool. If you have any questions as you go along, I can send you some control cavity photos. In fact I may have some already on photobucket.

 

BTW, the coil splitter (I don't think it's a "tap" in the literal sense) is a on mini switch, not a push/pull, but you could wire it that way and fill in the switch hole.

 

I may also have some photos of the jack hole repairs I did as well, let me look around.

 

OK, found a couple of good PUP cavity shots here: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/51644-another-damn-noob-inquiring-on-valuearrrgh-epi-genesis/page__p__697304__hl__genesis__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=697304

 

PS: welcome to the forum!

[bigneil]

lucky find!! [thumbup]

[Lloyd Loar]

Thanks, guys, for the welcomes! And yeah, I figure I lucked out. It's not a '23 Loar mandolin in a pawnshop, but it was a decent bunch of finds. The Silvertone's cracked back is already patched (epoxy), and looks pretty good. The Rick needed nothing at all, cranked it up and it has a cool tone. The Genesis definitely needs work, though.

 

It has a bunch of cosmetic issues - binding shrinking and pulling loose on some of the tighter curves of the top, that sort of thing. Otherwise, aside from the issues with the control cavity (and the input jack) it seems to be all right.

 

Brian, how common *is* that sort of damage? I get the impression that a lot of these had that happen. Is it just a consequence of cruddy construction?

 

Congrats on your find Lloyd, very cool. If you have any questions as you go along, I can send you some control cavity photos. In fact I may have some already on photobucket.

 

BTW, the coil splitter (I don't think it's a "tap" in the literal sense) is a on mini switch, not a push/pull, but you could wire it that way and fill in the switch hole.

 

I may also have some photos of the jack hole repairs I did as well, let me look around.

 

OK, found a couple of good PUP cavity shots here: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/51644-another-damn-noob-inquiring-on-valuearrrgh-epi-genesis/page__p__697304__hl__genesis__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=697304

 

PS: welcome to the forum!

 

These photos are terrific! I took one of the inside of mine before I dismantled it, and these look essentially the same. From what I can gather, the original owner must have tried to make some repairs to the broken input jack and during that process unsoldered (and resoldered) all the electronics. He did a terrible job, and the lumps of solder and bits of frayed copper wire probably didn't help with the tone or performance of the instrument. I'm considering scrapping the old pots and wires and using new ones, but at least have cleaned up the solder joints based on the above photos and some wiring harness diagrams that Willy linked me to.

 

Brian, for the input jack repair, my solution was:

 

1) a disc of red oak fixed inside the cavity to reinforce the broken area.

2) a mixture of epoxy and fine, sifted sawdust applied to fill the hole on the outside. When it dries, it should be pretty tough, and when I drill through it to re-insert the jack, I think it should hold up all right.

 

It won't be the most beautiful fix, but I want a player, not a looker. I like the sound and feel of the instrument - that weight is reassuring. If Abbie Hoffman ever pops up on stage and I've got the Genesis, I'll just Townshend him. POW!

 

And yep, when I get a little more done, I'll try to take some photos. Hopefully no one here will be too aghast at my repair job.

[brianh]

Brian, how common *is* that sort of damage? I get the impression that a lot of these had that happen. Is it just a consequence of cruddy construction?

Very common - about 30% of the units I see have either the jack area or neck cracked. I have a project Geni that I got cheap that's all original electronics and some missing binding at the headstock but the jack area is good and the neck in decent shape. That one should come out well.

 

Brian, for the input jack repair, my solution was:

 

1) a disc of red oak fixed inside the cavity to reinforce the broken area.

2) a mixture of epoxy and fine, sifted sawdust applied to fill the hole on the outside. When it dries, it should be pretty tough, and when I drill through it to re-insert the jack, I think it should hold up all right.

 

It won't be the most beautiful fix, but I want a player, not a looker. I like the sound and feel of the instrument - that weight is reassuring. If Abbie Hoffman ever pops up on stage and I've got the Genesis, I'll just Townshend him. POW!

 

And yep, when I get a little more done, I'll try to take some photos. Hopefully no one here will be too aghast at my repair job.

I did a similar repair but with a piece of old pickguard and epoxy. I also moved the jack to the side of the guitar where it should have gone.

 

 

That is the major design flaw of the Genesis, that jack just puts too much pressure on the control cavity. Epoxy also makes a good filler for shrunken binding, just force it into the crack, let cure for a few days and sand smooth.

 

PS, Abbie Hoffman died in '89 so not to worry. I met him once and he was a cool dude....I seem to remember sharing something combustible with him back in the 70's...

 

Here's the way I got it:

 

 

And the jack hole patch job:

 

 

Filled and sanded out the other bits:

 

 

The prototype setup:

 

 

And first paint coats:

 

 

All the photos are here: http://s906.photobuc...epair%20Photos/

[Lloyd Loar]

Brian, I was actually considering moving the jack to the side. Nice to see it's been done before.

 

The pictures you posted were fantastic, and inspiring. These guitars seem to have some real potential for fixing up. You may have just inspired me to go farther than I had intended. Of course, I may just wait and do more intensive work later, but it's nice to see how easily these things seem to take to the changes.

 

That's a great-looking instrument, especially retrofitted with the Bigsby.

 

 

EDIT: In a couple of your "sanded" pics, I can see that your binding was pulling away just as mine is. Man, at least these things had consistent problem areas, if nothing else. Which means that one person's fix should work about as well as the next, assuming a similar level of involvement and ability (I can't make any promises on the latter).