Coil Tap Options

[jags]

I'm wiring up my Epiphone Wilshire with a 3 way switch to select Hummbucker/Humbucker - Humbucker/Single - Single/Single. My dilema is for the Humbucker/Single position which option is best Neck/Single and Bridge/Hum or Neck/Hum and Bridge/Single. I can't have both.

 

From your experiance out there which combination is most usefull and why. Vote in the poll and let me know why here in the thread.

 

Thanks!

[RaSTuS]

It's easy to have both, just wire a coil-split for each pup to a separate push-pull pots.

[jags]

It's easy to have both, just wire a coil-split for each pup to a separate push-pull pots.

 

I'm using the push-pulls for different uses. Phase reverse and tone doubling. Also adding a pickup blend pot instead of the 3-way. Leaving me the 3-way to do the coil-splits. Here is the diagram:

 

 

Here is the THREAD with the full explanation.

 

 

So I need to make a choice and want to know what others prefer. A lot of guitars have the humbuckers in the bridge and a single coil in the neck so I was leaning in that direction. However there is a greater tonal variation between pickups when the bridge is in single and the neck is in humbucker mode. That would give the blend pot more variation to work with.

 

So I am torn and looking for suggestions and input!

 

Thanks!

[RaSTuS]

Oh I remember that thread, damn you've got more options happening than you can shake a stick at.

 

For that particular arrangement I'd recommend using Seymour Duncan Triple Shots, they are pup rings with series-parallel/coil-split options built into them.

[Versatile]

IMX neck single sounds better

 

It is a personal thing though...

 

V

 

[stein]

I can barely imagine what the overall will sound like. I see a lot of switches and extra pots involved. That is going to affect the sound quite a bit, so I think what a sound we are used to is not going to be the sound you get.

 

For example, a "standard" humbucker goes through one switch and 2 pots. It looks there like each pup will have 3 switches and 3 pots, not including the varitone.

 

Hopefully, you will have good access to modify and experiment. Do-overs are a good thing when inventing a radical circuit. I would try the neck pup as the main focus sinse it is the easiest to evaluate and go from there. Also, I would bump up the value of the master and blend to 1 meg to make up for the loss.

 

After you have tried it, the tone pot and cap value switch MAY be redundant with the varitone, which would eliminate a pot and free up a switch.

 

Overall, it looks like some great options, and I would be anxious to hear it. I would get to soldering and not worry about perfection just yet, and let your ears tell you which way to take it.

[jags]

I can barely imagine what the overall will sound like. I see a lot of switches and extra pots involved. That is going to affect the sound quite a bit, so I think what a sound we are used to is not going to be the sound you get. For example, a "standard" humbucker goes through one switch and 2 pots. It looks there like each pup will have 3 switches and 3 pots.

 

Well the idea is to make it sound different than it does now. Yes there are a lot of switches and pots but the concept is to actually simplify getting a specific tone compared to the stock setup. The 2 vol 2 tone setups really don't work very well as there is too much interaction between the 4 controls when both pickups are selected. It's too hard to find or return to a specific sound. Also when both pickups are selected in a 2 vol 2 tone setup each pickup is actually affected by 4 pots!

 

My concept works in 3 steps. First, the pickup selection. Done with the 3-way humbucker/single coil selector, the phase reverse switch and the blend pot. These three controls basically select which pickups are used and how they are orientated, with the bonus of having the capability to blend the 2 pickups.

 

Second, the tone section. We then can alter the sound of the pickups with the varitone that has 6 distinct repeatable selections (the Rothstein varitone sounds great for this). You say:

 

After you have tried it, the tone pot and cap value switch MAY be redundant with the varitone, which would eliminate a pot and free up a switch.

 

The idea of the second tone is not to be redundant but instead to be able to "mellow out" the sound of the Varitone if you want to. This is done with the tone control on the .0068mfd cap. This cap has a very subtle effect on the tone. If you want a more aggressive roll off just switch to the .047mfd cap. And remember the Varitone has a bypass position so it can be taken out of the circuit completely just leaving the dual tone control to work on it's own just as would be the case on a normal setup.

 

The third step is the Master Volume. One volume control is far easier to use than the stock 2 volumes. And of course this master volume controls the overall output of the sound you have dialed in in the first 2 steps.

 

As you can see this setup does give a lot of possibilities but it should be far easier to find and replicate specific tonal variations.

 

Hopefully, you will have good access to modify and experiment. Do-overs are a good thing when inventing a radical circuit.

 

Yes it's pretty easy to access everything on the Wilshire. The pickguard is removable without having to take off the strings. I have some alternate ideas for the tone pot switch if I don't like what it does. However I already tested the .0068mfd and the .047mfd caps and I do like the tones they are offering.

 

Anyways that's the rundown. So far things are falling into place. The Rothstein Varitone came in today and like I said before it sounds great! Just waiting for the special 3-way selector switch to come in and then I'll be able to go at it!

 

Thanks again and please leave more comments and suggestions!

[Marshall Paul]

Oh I remember that thread, damn you've got more options happening than you can shake a stick at.

 

For that particular arrangement I'd recommend using Seymour Duncan Triple Shots, they are pup rings with series-parallel/coil-split options built into them.

 

 

Yeah I've seen these things, they're great. You can wire it to either series/parallel phase split or to coil split.

[jags]

Yeah I've seen these things, they're great. You can wire it to either series/parallel phase split or to coil split.

 

Yes they are great, but for my purpose I'm not really looking to have every pickup combination known to mankind! Don't really need parallel as it's very much like single coil and I prefer single coil better. Plus I like the big switch and the push/pull instead of those tiny sliders on the mount.

 

Great suggestions though and much appreciated!!

[bigneil]

When I got my Ibby, the pup selector switch was set up to choose Humbucker (bridge) in the "treble" position, Humbucker (Neck) in the "rhythm" position and split both Humbuckers in the Middle position....like this.

 

 

Personally i didn't dig it and wired up Push/pull coil splitter instead.

 

I thought you may find it interesting. I wish you luck with your cool mods.

[jags]

bigneil,

 

That wiring scheme basically gives you a three position pickup selection using 2 pickups. Neck/Middle/Bridge. Doesn't look too usefull as I think it would be better to have both pickups together as an option. Interesting but since I'm using a blend pot to chose the pickups I'm getting all those options anyways, plus more.

 

I've started the mod but I'm still waiting on the special 3-way toggle. Let me just say, what I've done so far sounds amazing!

 

I will post more info as the project comes along.

 

Thanks!

[stein]

bigneil,

 

That wiring scheme basically gives you a three position pickup selection using 2 pickups. Neck/Middle/Bridge. Doesn't look too usefull as I think it would be better to have both pickups together as an option. Interesting but since I'm using a blend pot to chose the pickups I'm getting all those options anyways, plus more.

 

I've started the mod but I'm still waiting on the special 3-way toggle. Let me just say, what I've done so far sounds amazing!

 

I will post more info as the project comes along.

 

Thanks!

What have you done so far? Are you going all at once or doing one at a time to hear differences?

[jags]

What have you done so far? Are you going all at once or doing one at a time to hear differences?

 

I already did all my testing outside of the guitar and pretty much know what to expect. So now I'm just waiting for the special on-on-on 3-way selector switch to get here. I finished everything else and just have it temporarily wired as hum/hum. Let me tell you the Varitone is great!!! And what really surprised me is how amazing it sounds when you switch in the phase reverse! The phase reverse was the one thing I couldn't test outside the guitar. With the phase reverse engaged it drops out some of the lows so the tone really sparkles. It brings out an acoustic sound even stronger. Interesting that the whole phase reverse thing was actually an after thought. I had that switch pot available for the master volume and did not know what to do with it. So I finally figured why not a phase reverse? It might be interesting. Boy I'm glad I put it in as it really does wonders with the Varitone basically giving it a whole nother set of five tones.

 

The dual tone control is doing exactly what I expected also. Giving me the ability to subtlely or drastically shape the overall sound.

 

Once I get the 3-way in I'll have a little more variation between the single coil and humbucker sounds, but I know it won't offer me the wonderful tonal difference that phase reverse has given me.

 

So far I am very satisfied on the way it's working out. I have already found 4 or 5 combinations that really sound great and it's all logically arranged and easy to replicate those sounds. Everything from a full lush Les Paul to an edgy Strat, to a hollow body jazz, to an acoustic. It's all there and easy and logical to dial in.

 

I'll post pics when it's all done!

 

Thanks!

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

I voted for the humbucker in the neck because IMO that's where a humbucker sounds the best!

 

I have a similar setup in a Tele, but it uses a 5 way switch to get:

 

1) Full Humbucker

2) Split Humbucker

3) Full Humbucker & Bridge

4) Split Humbucker and Bridge (sort of the traditional Tele middle position)

5) Bridge

 

No idea what the wiring schematic looks like, it came that way stock. Positions 3 and 4 are very cool, but I've been thinking about trying an after market humbucker.

[Hungrycat]

Why don't you just keep using the large three-position for pickup switching and add two two-way mini-toggles for coil tap? That way you can have both tapped in whatever position you want.

[jags]

I voted for the humbucker in the neck because IMO that's where a humbucker sounds the best!

 

I have a similar setup in a Tele, but it uses a 5 way switch to get:

 

1) Full Humbucker

2) Split Humbucker

3) Full Humbucker & Bridge

4) Split Humbucker and Bridge (sort of the traditional Tele middle position)

5) Bridge

 

No idea what the wiring schematic looks like, it came that way stock. Positions 3 and 4 are very cool, but I've been thinking about trying an after market humbucker.

 

 

Yes I have a "Fat Tele" also and I do like the Hum in the neck and the Single in the bridge in position 3. That's another reason I was initially torn on which way to go. But I had to make a choice. So with so many guitars set up with the bridge/hum and neck/single, with the majority of the votes here going that way also, and from spending a few hours testing both ways, I have decided to go bridge/hum and neck/single for the mid position of the switch.

 

 

 

Why don't you just keep using the large three-position for pickup switching and add two two-way mini-toggles for coil tap? That way you can have both tapped in whatever position you want.

 

With the blend pot installed a 3-way for pickup switching would be redundant. Plus I like the ability to blend the pickups and to have a master volume control. Also I didn't want to add any mini switches as I want to keep the stock appearance. Yes the Varitone does have a chcken head knob that is not stock but that justs adds to the Vintage Vibe!! Two mini switches wouldn't.

 

These suggestions may help others in deciding how to do their own mods. So thanks for everyones input and keep it comming!!

[jags]

The Mod is Finnished!!

 

This thing sounds awesome! Just like I expected the Varitone really gives some wonderful variation to the tone. The 3-way pickup selector works great to choose H/H S/H or S/S. The phase reverse adds an entire new palatte of sound with the thinner dropped out lows. The dual tone control gives either a subtle or drastic tone variation to the overall sound. The blend knob makes it easy to select which pickup is used or a combination of both. And the master volume controls everything. I call her "The Green Tone Monster"!!

 

It is very easy to dial in exactly what you want. My friend, who is a pro guitar player, was ammazed with the tonal variation and the simplicity to dial things in. He has already asked me to build him one just like this.

 

Here is a pic of the main control section. I left it as a hi-res so that you can enlarge and see the detail. Notice the dual oil caps on the tone control and how the inductor from the Varitone tucks in neatly below them. It's all a tight squeeze but it does fit.

 

 

 

 

Here is a wider shot showing all the electronics including the special 3-way selector switch.

 

 

 

 

Here is the finished install. Notice the cool chicken head knob for the Varitone and the new replacement knobs for the other controls. These look a lot cleaner and match up with the chicken head a lot better than the stock control knobs.

 

 

 

 

Thanks again for letting me share this with all of you. Please leave any comments or suggestions. Below is the wiring diagram once again for reference.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[RaSTuS]

Congrats on getting it done Eric, that's some achievement, I'd be lost with all those options, but if you've got a handle on that, I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it.

[Hungrycat]

Looks pretty good.