Tuning Issues with Es 339

[KennyF]

So I had rehearsals last night. The Es 339 is settling in very well. No issues. Thanks again.

 

Rock-on brother!!!

[Teobeck]

Nut Sauce helped but didn't cure tuning, which helped me to decide to order pre-slotted bone nut from Mojo supply $16), and Tonepros AVR-II bridge at the same time ($64). And, since the "new style" volume pots couldn't compare with the calibration/power of my ES-345 or even Epi Sheraton pots/caps, I ordered new volume/tone pots and caps from RS Guitarworks ($56). I like the 339 for weight, balance, fret action and tone, but believe with 335-like special 500K CTS pots/caps/bridge it will sound even better. I hope I'm correct, and after luthier gets done I'll report on results. One change may be that 339 liked pedals, and 345 doesn't like 'em or need 'em (other than Barber LTD OD and Tone Press pedals). It could be the fullness of the 345 tone that I was missing, but 339 volume pots didn't seem right with major drop off either. Could be my neuro paths are too burned in on 335/345's after 48 years. Plus, I'm more interested in the sound than in keeping it perfectly original. Seems like $150 plus luthier would correct everything. Tonepros slips on and bridge replacement is no biggie either, so that and all labor will probably cost another $50. Other than changing the pups on the Epi to Gibson '57's, I've never needed to do anything to my Gibsons or Epi's. So, there's a first time for everything.

[Murph]

Man, I'm shocked. I LOVE the pots in my ES-339. Coming out of a 91 Tele, and 79 S.G., this thing is the bomb.

 

A dab of clear silicone (I mean from a toothpick) stopped the bridge wire rattle and I've been gigging it every weekend. Sustain will put a Les Paul/SG to shame.

 

Nothing can sustain like a semi hollow.

 

Best of luck.

 

Murph.

[g6120]

i had two es 339 guitars in three weeks - the first would not stay in tune then had it perfessionly set up got it back still had the problem .

 

so i that point i returned the guitar and was sent another replacement and had the same problem all over again .

 

 

im not certain what goes on with them but been playing for years and have not ever seen anything like that and im es 339 free and cant recommend that guitar . nice action comfortable neck but wont stay in tune -

 

 

 

looking for a es 335 now

 

g6120

[whoobla]

So, just asking but how far out of tune. One passage and it's out. As soon as you play it it goes out. Hard picker , Light picker ??

[KennyF]

g6120,

 

That's some really weird stuff... Even for one, but two of 'em??? I'd have to have that guitar in my hands before commenting any further.

 

I'm just sayin'... ???

[whoobla]

Mine is still good. Played sat. When I got home, it was still in tune. Happy to say it was the strings.

[Murph]

Yea, I'll comment.

 

The 339 is the bomb. Mine stays in tune, how could it not? It roars, it shimmers, it glows in the dark.

 

Murph.

[Teobeck]

I had my Luthier measure the headstock peg holes, and they are 25/64 or 10MM, so Tonepros/Kluson locking tuners (Marquis Distributing) will drop in. I also took it in for a new bone nut (Mojo Supply) and Tonepros AVR II bridge (Marquis). He is also replacing pots and caps with RS Guitarworks vintage 335 set as the stock Memphis Tone set doesn't work for me, I don't like the treble bleed. The new caps are .15 (neck) and .22 (bridge) pups, pots are 500K. I prefer the action, weight and sound of this axe over any other I've ever had, and I still have ES-345, Epi Sheraton w/'57 classic pups, SG w/'57's, and Heritage H-157 (LP). This should cure the tuning problem and will also let me calibrate volume and tone old fashioned style. I'm posting this info as reference for other researchers, as the peg hole width isn't posted elsewhere that I could find, and most vintage Gibsons are 11/32". The 339 also loves my Barber pedals, whereas the other semi hollows only like the LTD SR OD, but not the Tone Press.

[Murph]

I too, prefer the action, weight, and sound of this guitar over anything I've ever played, and I was playing bars in Clearwater Beach Fla. in 1970, and in Mayfield Ky. last Sat night. This is a sleeper for sure. these prices will not last much longer.

 

Best to ya.

 

Murph.

[milod]

Okay, I'm not using your specific guitar, but my own drives me a bit nuts. It's a "patent infringement" mid 70s ES175, trapeze tailpiece, tunamatic bridge, etc...

 

Bottom line is that it's incredibly sensitive to change in the weather, temperatures, humidity, even barometric pressure. Left a day in rapidly changing weather here at 3,000 feet on the Northern Plains, it can drop all strings a quarter to half a tone (yeah, almost a whole fret's worth).

 

An aquaintance with a Gibson ES175 sez he had much of the same problems here, fewer at sea level in New York area.

 

I use light strings, Elixir coated ones, and if the weather is stable, so is the box. After a day of rapid barometric pressure changes - the winds were nearly 70 mph - last week, I had a significant drop in string tension and everything was flat. Interior temperature was unchanged. Humidity did decrease a little. All but one string remained in tune to each other in spite of dropping over a quarter tone.

 

On the other hand, my 70s Guild version of an SG is solid as a rock for tuning. But my accoustic boxes and a prior-owned jazz style box had similar changes with the weather.

 

I did one winter gig where the guitar in a hard case went from well-tuned at home to the Jeep in a snowbank, under 10 minutes to a theater setting, opened the case and let it air close to an hour, then tuned 10 minutes my "turn." I'm convinced my body temperature itself made a major difference and inside 3 minutes I was back out of whack.

 

So... I'm hoping to get something like a 335 or Epi equivalent to get a "board" involved and a stop tailpiece so tuning isn't so much of a concern. But I do have a hunch certain guitar builds are far more likely to be affected by variations of temperature, etc., than others. As I said, the "board" guitar seems unaffected by the above relatively minor changes.

 

Bridge, nut, age of strings, etc.; even physical positioning of a player and his/her "touch" on the neck may make a difference, I'm sure. But I'll bet the physical "being" of the box has the greater role."

[Troels]

It's not the standard. It should not go out of tune - the hole gig should be played to the very end completely without retuning.

 

Tuning problems are easy to locate - as they occur somewhere between the tailpiece and the tuners.

 

Begin with the tuners... are all screws tight? Are the strings properly fixed to the posts?... Next checkpoint is the nut - that's where 80% of all tuning problems can be found... are the slots to tight? Do they need lubrication with graphite? Is the nut lose ? It's seen actually.... Next stop is the bridge. Does it move? Do the saddles move? Do the strings hang in the slots?. Last stop is - the stop tail... are there room enough for the string ball ends? Does it move? Is it all the way down or is in top position?... I do believe that you will find at least one or two issues on your way from tail to gears. If not check if the truss rod is lose... It shouldn't be...

[esch]

I have had great success with the planetwaves tru-strobe tuner. A strobe tuner will get you much better in tune than something like a standard boss TU-2 (or whichever) for example. I honestly didn't realize how badly out of tune I was with my boss tuner until I retuned with the trustrobe tuner. It is a big difference.

 

This will work presuming once tuned your guitar will actually stay that way...However if there is something wrong with your guitar and it won't STAY in tune for some reason that is something else.

[KennyF]

Look, as much as I hate to speak in absolute terms, especially without having the guitar in question in my hands, "it's NOT the tuners"! Worm gears DO NOT allow the post gear to rotate backwards, AT ALL, EVER!!! In fact, the more torsional tension that you apply to the string post, the more the "locking" properties of the gear set will be realized, provided that you tune "UP" to pitch, whereby removing any play in the gears.

 

Having said that, I agree with those who think that either the nut slots are tight and binding the strings, (meaning that the string tension is NOT on the post, but rather pinched in the nut slot, at the time of tuning), OR, the neck is truly that unstable. Personally, I think it's the nut slots.

 

Kenny

[bobv]

OK without speaking in absolutes, tuning problems are 'never' caused by the tuners - I agree. Amusing that people run out and swap the machines at the drop of a hat. Fact is, modern enclosed gear tuners like Grovers are an advantage because they're more pleasant to use when you're turning the pegs. But Kluson reproductions with stamped covers, or even open-geared tuners, are just as stable so long as they're well made. Once you let go of the knob, they all stay put just fine. If the guitar doesn't stay in tune, the first place to look is the nut slots and saddles.

 

Having said that, if the bolt bushings are loose, then it is going to be hard to get things just so when tuning. Then if you've got some binding problems at the nut or saddle slot the problem will be magnified. I keep a 10mm wrench handy near my workbench since the bolt bushings on modern tuning machines are almost always loose on a new guitar or one that hasn't been serviced in awhile.

[HereticalSage]

It could be a lubrication problem with the nut on your guitar.

 

--Try getting some pencil lead and rub it in the nut grooves where the strings make contact, and usually that will fix the "tune every ****in' song" problem.

 

--If that doesn't fix it, check your bridge to make sure the strings are seated properly in their saddles.

 

--If that still doesn't fix it, check your neck for bowing, and adjust your truss rod, as necessary.

 

--If you do all of the above and it still won't work, try different strings, or get a set of locking tuners.

 

That's about all the trouble-shooting I can give for now. My apologies for the redundancy, if any of the above was already stated.

[Troels]

Look' date=' as much as I hate to speak in absolute terms, especially without having the guitar in question in my hands, "it's [b']NOT[/b] the tuners"! Worm gears DO NOT allow the post gear to rotate backwards, AT ALL, EVER!!! In fact, the more torsional tension that you apply to the string post, the more the "locking" properties of the gear set will be realized, provided that you tune "UP" to pitch, whereby removing any play in the gears.

 

Having said that, I agree with those who think that either the nut slots are tight and binding the strings, (meaning that the string tension is NOT on the post, but rather pinched in the nut slot, at the time of tuning), OR, the neck is truly that unstable. Personally, I think it's the nut slots.

 

Kenny

 

Sometimes the hole tuner can move on the peghead... That's quite common. Of course I don't mean backlash and that sort of thing. I thought that everybody could understand that! Otherwise there should be no reason for checking the screws on the back of the peghead, I suppose.

[Teobeck]

I got my guitar back today from my great Luthier. Stays in tune! Perfect intonation! Bone nut cut correctly, new Tonepros AVR-II bridge (all saddles point same way), and new ES-335 pots and caps, so no volume/tone drop. Sounds better if that's possible. I notice bone nut has straight top and is not beveled on headstock side like original. Neck setup readjusted for good measure. Played it all day several times and only adjustment was B string once, went a little flat. Before all three top strings went out constantly. So nut was prime problem, but bridge prevented perfect intonation for some reason, now solved. I also note that Kluson tuners are tight when adjusting strings, and since I wanted locking tuners for string changes, I'll add Tonepros/Klusons also. I still feel this is best guitar I've ever played, great spring to the action, size and weight, and tone. For an old blues, R&B and r 'n r player, it can't get any better than this. 6ths, 7ths, 9ths and 13ths are really musical. Sustain forever, better than an LP. Loves pedals. My amps love it. Trem/reverb sounds are oustanding. Am I crying that it didn't come right from factory? No, because nothing else available has everything it has - so it is now upgraded to a real Custom Shop unit.