JoeyStinger Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I have an Epiphone Les Paul of unknown vintage. I think it's somewhat unique in that it has a Gibson-style (shaped) headstock (that reads "Epiphone" in mother-of-pearl [?]), and, incidentally, a truss rod cover that reads "Gibson" as well, although obviously an actual Gibson truss rod cover could have been added to any old Epi. The Gibson-style headstock shape, of course, genuinely came on the guitar. One question I have is, does anyone know anything about this guitar and some background info on it? My real reason for posting, however, is that my daughter let some idiots borrow the guitar and they broke the neck - not "off," but they caused it to have a nasty boat-bow-shaped crack, with the point of the boat-bow shape being about 2 inches from where the headstock actually begins. Being very broke, I had to undertake a repair on my own. I was able to do what I expect will be a satisfactory repair except for cosmetically - I won't really know until I've adjusted the truss rod. After 7 failed attempts at using stripper, I resorted to using a heat gun, which worked adequately. I got the neck down to bare wood, used c-clamps to open up the crack, filled the crack with glue, and then reclamped it to close down the crack. The glue dried and I sanded the neck so that now the crack appears repaired, although one can easily see the repair. After the sanding I put on a few applications of tung oil, and also reglued a section of fretboard between the third and fourth frets that had also come off, and used SuperGlue to replace the two associated frets, that had come off. Right now it's restrung, but is still backbowed too much to bring the strings up to pitch while also keeping them from buzzing against the neck (which they're presently doing completely). After I get a truss rod wrench to it (tomorrow), I expect it to be able to be adjusted successfully. Problem is, the binding is just wrecked (!) and the frets are raw at the ends in several places. Results include strings "catching" on the ends of several frets, fingers catching on frets and binding, and ugly appearance. So . . . is it possible to pop off the "nastified" fretboard and get an entire "pre-fretted" (ebony) replacement fretboard to put in its place? Or, at the minimum, get a pre-slotted such fretboard to glue in place and then add frets? If I have to do that, what type frets should I use (jumbo? Medium? Pyramid? I have no clue). I'm new to this forum, and have OK'd users emailing me directly, but don't know if/how my email address shows up - so, I hope I'm not breaking any rules by telling you my email address - roger@rogercloud.com. I'm notoriously clueless on using forums such as this, so I don't know if I'm somehow notified when responses come in, etc. - so, I'd appreciate direct email communication if you'd be so kind! Thank you for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Steward McDonald maybe? (stewmac) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Steward McDonald maybe? (stewmac) Well, I know about Stew Mac, but I didn't find anything there except pre-slotted fretboards, and, oddly, their catalog says that fretboard measurements are only approximate! This is incomprehensible to me, since fret placements are critical! I don't know how to measure for using any such fretboard even if I were to tackle fretting the new board myself - and, I still don't know what factors go into choosing one style of fret vs. another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Well, I know about Stew Mac, but I didn't find anything there except pre-slotted fretboards, and, oddly, their catalog says that fretboard measurements are only approximate! This is incomprehensible to me, since fret placements are critical! Gibson did that for years. All Norlin era Les Pauls have a miscalculation in the fret placements of the 12th fret and up. Not by much, but it's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Gibson did that for years. All Norlin era Les Pauls have a miscalculation in the fret placements of the 12th fret and up. Not by much, but it's there. Sorry if I'm being thick, but Gibson did *what* for years - sloppily placed frets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Approximated the fret placement measurements. I don't remember the actual numbers off the top of my head, but I have them written down somewhere. Ends up being off by almost the width of a fret at the 22nd fret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Approximated the fret placement measurements. I don't remember the actual numbers off the top of my head, but I have them written down somewhere. Ends up being off by almost the width of a fret at the 22nd fret. That's outrageous (goes without saying). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 That's outrageous (goes without saying). It's actually not as bad as you would think, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Oh, and good luck with your repair. I dont actually have info that's relevant to your problem, but I also have a very broken Les Paul, so I'll be following your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Oh, and good luck with your repair. I dont actually have info that's relevant to your problem, but I also have a very broken Les Paul, so I'll be following your progress. OK - I'll post my progress! Thanks for your interest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Your guitar is a 1989 Les Paul. Korean made. The open-book headstock (for the non-Japanese market) was made only in 1989...possibly 1988 but not released until '89 for the model year. The only other models with the open-book headstock are the Japanese Domestic Market Les Pauls, including the older, standard runs, Elitists and LQ Series ca. 2000-2006 approximately. All of those mentioned will have a two-screw truss cover. Yours should have 3 screws. The "Gibson" truss cover is common for that era. They used those until the late 1990's, possibly in to the early. 2000's. Sorry to hear about the damage. I would be enraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Your guitar is a 1989 Les Paul. Korean made. The open-book headstock (for the non-Japanese market) was made only in 1989...possibly 1988 but not released until '89 for the model year. The only other models with the open-book headstock Japanese Domestic Market Les Pauls, including the older, standard runs, Elitists and LQ Series ca. 2000-2006 approximately. All of those mentioned will have a two-screw truss cover. Yours should have 3 screws. The "Gibson" truss cover is common for that era. They used those until the late 1990's, possibly in to the early. 2000's. Sorry to hear about the damage. I would be enraged. Thanks very much for that helpful info. Yeah, I *was* enraged, but it's my daughter. The most annoying part was that she really didn't have a sense of what a major tragedy something like that is for a musician. Would there have been any particular value to the guitar if it hadn't been busted like that? Seems as though there had to be few of them with the Gibson-style headstock. (I'm not thinking of any *great* value, but maybe some curiousity value?) Since I couldn't afford to get the guitar professionally reworked, I decided to try to get it back to very playable condition rather than even trying to get it cosmetically perfect. I'll let this forum know what develops on the guitar's revitalization. Thanks again! Joe Cloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I think the value is really in the eye of the beholder here. There is some curiosity value I suppose, but it doesnt really translate into monetary value. The 1989 models are sought after by the people who know what they are, but many others think they are countefeits because they are not familiar with them. They may or may not be worth slightly more than a modern guitar of the same model. They are harder to find, but not exceedingly rare. Even the rarer Epiphones of that era arent typically considered collectible in that sense. The Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) LPs and SGs such as the Elitists and LQs are worth a great deal more, mainly because they were made to higher specifications, many of which rival Gibson or fall just below Gibson quality levels. This goes for the non-JDM elitists as well. The standard run of Japanese LPs and SGs with the open-book headstocks arent really better guitars, but may be worth more because they are harder to acquire. Pesonally, and I think I can speak for many of us here, I would love to get my hands on a 1989 model just for the curiosity value as you mentioned. People that see it will most likely ask about it becuase of the headstock and its fun to tell the little bit of history behind them....which is basically that these were the first run of set-neck Les Pauls, any SGs and many other models from Epiphone. Epiphone moved production to Korea in 1982 and put out some really weird guitars that bombed horribly. In 1986 they started rolling out the guitar lines that began to define Epiphone as we know it today. Many of the post 1986 models have been discontinued, but the construction seems to have been somewhat standardized and improved upon ever since. Almost everything about the construction and design from Epiphone seems to have gotten leaner and meaner over the past few decades. They stopped using mostly laminated woods for the solid body guitars, and the laminates that they do use have gotten better compared to the 1980's. There have been quality control issues from time to time, mainly because of moving to Korea and then China and some other countries in between. But Epiphone does its best to resolve those issues and the Chinese guitars (love them or hate them) have improved dramatically in the past few years. I think that, aside from the open-book headstock, the real value to an Epiphone afficionado is that these guiars were the beginnings of the modern Epiphone guitar as we know them today. Its like having a small (albiet, monetarily negligible) piece of modern history in your hands that you dont need to put up on a pedestal and not feel bad about if you want to modify it or happen to acquire some battle scars. You can just play it and enjoy it. So play it and enjoy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hi Roger, welcome to the forum. Sorry it is under such sad circumstances. Binding is replaceable. Are the fret which have dodgy ends the ones you superglued in? Did they not get fully seated? Or are they other than the ones you glued? High fret ends can be filled with nailpolish if they can't be pressed in any further. Pics would be a great help in giving appropriate advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 As mentioned, pictures are the only way an experienced person could give you any specific repair advice, if you post some there are guys around here who can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 I think the value is really in the eye of the beholder here. There is some curiosity value I suppose, but it doesnt really translate into monetary value. The 1989 models are sought after by the people who know what they are, but many others think they are countefeits because they are not familiar with them. They may or may not be worth slightly more than a modern guitar of the same model. They are harder to find, but not exceedingly rare. Even the rarer Epiphones of that era arent typically considered collectible in that sense. The Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) LPs and SGs such as the Elitists and LQs are worth a great deal more, mainly because they were made to higher specifications, many of which rival Gibson or fall just below Gibson quality levels. This goes for the non-JDM elitists as well. The standard run of Japanese LPs and SGs with the open-book headstocks arent really better guitars, but may be worth more because they are harder to acquire. Pesonally, and I think I can speak for many of us here, I would love to get my hands on a 1989 model just for the curiosity value as you mentioned. People that see it will most likely ask about it becuase of the headstock and its fun to tell the little bit of history behind them....which is basically that these were the first run of set-neck Les Pauls, any SGs and many other models from Epiphone. Epiphone moved production to Korea in 1982 and put out some really weird guitars that bombed horribly. In 1986 they started rolling out the guitar lines that began to define Epiphone as we know it today. Many of the post 1986 models have been discontinued, but the construction seems to have been somewhat standardized and improved upon ever since. Almost everything about the construction and design from Epiphone seems to have gotten leaner and meaner over the past few decades. They stopped using mostly laminated woods for the solid body guitars, and the laminates that they do use have gotten better compared to the 1980's. There have been quality control issues from time to time, mainly because of moving to Korea and then China and some other countries in between. But Epiphone does its best to resolve those issues and the Chinese guitars (love them or hate them) have improved dramatically in the past few years. I think that, aside from the open-book headstock, the real value to an Epiphone afficionado is that these guiars were the beginnings of the modern Epiphone guitar as we know them today. Its like having a small (albiet, monetarily negligible) piece of modern history in your hands that you dont need to put up on a pedestal and not feel bad about if you want to modify it or happen to acquire some battle scars. You can just play it and enjoy it. So play it and enjoy it! From Roger: Thanks so much for that detailed history! I've always wondered about the guitar and had never before gotten *any* worthwhile info (most of my efforts were pre-Internet). TO ALL FROM ROGER: At this juncture, I have only to use a Gibson truss rod adjusting wrench to [hopefully successfully] eliminate the backbow and then check the intonation, etc., barring any further complications. Once the guitar is all chipped up (that is to say, "tuned up"), I'll try to upload some pix. So far it looks as if I have hit my target, to not spend all that much yet revert the guitar to at least a satisfactory "player's" axe. Tomorrow will tell. BTW, does anyone have any opinion on choosing between adding a StewMac "Black Ice" mini passive overdrive to the guitar's tone control as vs. swapping out the bridge pickup for one of their Parsons Streets humbuckers? Or, for that matter, an EMG, Golden Age, or other alternative? Thanks for any input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 Hi Roger, welcome to the forum. Sorry it is under such sad circumstances. Binding is replaceable. Are the fret which have dodgy ends the ones you superglued in? Did they not get fully seated? Or are they other than the ones you glued? High fret ends can be filled with nailpolish if they can't be pressed in any further. Pics would be a great help in giving appropriate advice. From Roger: I will be trying to get adequate pix tomorrow. Many of the frets are causing "catching," despite even the two re-replaced frets' having been properly seated. Reason is that the binding literally got melted away by the stripper I first tried using (only a heat gun ultimately succeeded in removing the paint and "clearcoat." So, I'm interested in whether I can buy an entire replacement fretboard that's accurately scored for insertion of frets (and, again, which type to you all advise? Pyramidic? High? Etc.), or, better yet, a fretboard with frets already in it. I anticipate either pulling off all of the binding that *is* there and replacing it, or patching binding here and there if I can find a liquid plastic that will dry solid and sandable. Can nailpolish actually add enough binding "meat?" Or is it more that is can shmooze over the rough spots. There's at least *some* degree of cosmetic interest involved here, because the stripper really did a number on the binding. Also, to put in the dots within the binding, to correspond to the fretboard inlays, is this done by drilling and then adding in black paint? If not, how? Thanks again!! R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyStinger Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 From Roger: I will be trying to get adequate pix tomorrow. Many of the frets are causing "catching," despite even the two re-replaced frets' having been properly seated. Reason is that the binding literally got melted away by the stripper I first tried using (only a heat gun ultimately succeeded in removing the paint and "clearcoat." So, I'm interested in whether I can buy an entire replacement fretboard that's accurately scored for insertion of frets (and, again, which type to you all advise? Pyramidic? High? Etc.), or, better yet, a fretboard with frets already in it. I anticipate either pulling off all of the binding that *is* there and replacing it, or patching binding here and there if I can find a liquid plastic that will dry solid and sandable. Can nailpolish actually add enough binding "meat?" Or is it more that is can shmooze over the rough spots. There's at least *some* degree of cosmetic interest involved here, because the stripper really did a number on the binding. Also, to put in the dots within the binding, to correspond to the fretboard inlays, is this done by drilling and then adding in black paint? If not, how? Thanks again!! R ADDED NOTE FROM ROGER: I'm afraid I may have "lost" one or the other comment that someone posted - I expected to see a new comment but, when I was directed to the forum I found no such new comment. So, my apologies if I dropped one or the other - it was unintentional. I very much appreciate *all* of the comments being made! I'm one of those people who learned everything I know about computers by the seat of my pants, so there are lots of gaps in the logic I employ in using forums or similar programs. Thanks for your patience, all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I have an Epiphone Les Paul of unknown vintage. I think it's somewhat unique in that it has a Gibson-style (shaped) headstock (that reads "Epiphone" in mother-of-pearl [?]), and, incidentally, a truss rod cover that reads "Gibson" as well, although obviously an actual Gibson truss rod cover could have been added to any old Epi. The Gibson-style headstock shape, of course, genuinely came on the guitar. One question I have is, does anyone know anything about this guitar and some background info on it? My real reason for posting, however, is that my daughter let some idiots borrow the guitar and they broke the neck - not "off," but they caused it to have a nasty boat-bow-shaped crack, with the point of the boat-bow shape being about 2 inches from where the headstock actually begins. Snippage As others have mentioned, several pictures would probably convey more information. I don't believe you'll find any recently-manufactured guitars where the fretboard will separate easily from the neck. Almost any modern fretboard will likely need to be cut away from the neck, sacrificing either the fretboard or the neck, which ever can be salvaged, but generally not both. Having some specialized, expensive equipment could make it possible to make very narrow, precise cuts in the glue joint area to save both sections, but generally only practical for a very valuable instrument. The boat-bow-looking separation could be a break within the natural wood grain of the neck, or a break at a factory-made joint. Gluing freshly broken wood grain could result in a very strong joint, but attempting to reglue a factory joint without some mating surface preparation may result in an unreliable repair. There are numerous sources for replacement fretboards, but I doubt that the replacement parts will be a very good fit for your guitar neck.. they would all likely require some trimming/fitting work to attain a nearly-perfect fit.. and then adding new binding would likely need to be done as a separate operation. I hope you can achieve a level of repair that will result in a playable guitar, but if you intend to hang on to this one for a long time, it may be worthwhile to find a good used neck for a future restoration. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 If it was me, I would guage how much damage has been done to the original binding. If it is is a matter of separating it from the neck for a short distance, cleaning and re-gluing it, it might be something to try at home. Usr Acetone to glue the binding. You would still have to remove the frets in the affected area to do this properly. The binding would then have to be scraped to proper height and the frets replaced; either with new, or possibly re-use the old. Replacing the fingerboard raises a few other issues. Separating the fingerboard from the neck is not easy without the right tools. One other thing is that I'm not sure you can buy a fingerboard blank that is pre-routed for binding. You would have to mount it to the neck, and then rout it yourself. As this guitar is older, matching the binding would be difficult also. Some of the other members have tried staining new binding to match, using tea and other concoctions. Unless you have the correct tools like a Fret Tang Nipper, made to undercut the fret wire to fit in a bound neck, and a fret bender, new frets would be difficult to say the least. A complete fret level would then have to be done, and a complete setup following that. Quite an undertaking without proper tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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