derosa01 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 OK guys, I brought this topic up a while ago and thought I would bring it up again before selling my Joe Pass. The guitar is so heavy on the bass end it is simply not playable for me. Yes I can back way off on the tone controls, but the guitar simply sounds awful then. I am using a Fender Blues Jr. and a Peavy Valve King. I have tried a 10 band graphic eq and compressor which helps, but still, the guitar just seems out of control on the bottom end. I replaced the rosewood bridge with a Tune-a-matic which did'nt seem to do much. Of course I could change pickups, but for that cost I would rather save the $200 and sell the guitar and pick up an Ibanez Artcore, which I have played and feel it sounds much better. Maybe the wrong word, maybe just more balanced. Anyone have any thoughts? Yes I have adjusted the pole pieces and pickup heights without much change. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Check THIS post out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-poland Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 OK guys, I brought this topic up a while ago and thought I would bring it up again before selling my Joe Pass. The guitar is so heavy on the bass end it is simply not playable for me. Yes I can back way off on the tone controls, but the guitar simply sounds awful then. I am using a Fender Blues Jr. and a Peavy Valve King. I have tried a 10 band graphic eq and compressor which helps, but still, the guitar just seems out of control on the bottom end. I replaced the rosewood bridge with a Tune-a-matic which did'nt seem to do much. Of course I could change pickups, but for that cost I would rather save the $200 and sell the guitar and pick up an Ibanez Artcore, which I have played and feel it sounds much better. Maybe the wrong word, maybe just more balanced. Anyone have any thoughts? Yes I have adjusted the pole pieces and pickup heights without much change. Thanks! on the 1 i tried it had a nice woody tone to it ! how does it compare to other JPs? done any comparisons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derosa01 Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 on the 1 i tried it had a nice woody tone to it ! how does it compare to other JPs? done any comparisons? No, I have not found any others to compare to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I recently dialed mine in by lowering the pickups and adjusting the pole pieces...original bridge and frequensator tailpiece...played through a silverface vibro champ and blues junior, it sounds great the artcores I have seen didn't do much for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Dang Dubstar, that is a beautiful guitar............ [thumbup] ......................... Well, myself, if I had your problem, I'd be more than willing to spend two hundred or more on new pickups, new caps, or a different amp..... But that's just me..........Looks like your only option will be to sell it and get an Artcore.......... Do try lowering the pickup though........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derosa01 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thanks everyone for the input. I love the guitar as far as looks and feel. Very much like Bubstar's. Damian, what caps would you conider? 250K, 300K?? I do not know wht comes stock and that is what is installed currently. I was looking at a Seymour Duncan SH-2n in the neck position, I'm just not sure it would really help. I will say this though, the guitar is actually going up in value, versus the Ibanez, looking at eBay and trade mags. I guess that in and of itself would suggest I keep it. It is simply frustrating. Thanks again everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Too "Bassey" compared to what?! That's a semi-deep bodied guitar, and hollow. It's meant to be "mellower" (some might say "bassey") by design. You've had good suggestions, already, as to adjusting pickup heights, and/or changing pickups, caps, pots, etc. However, it will never be a "Les Paul," or "SG" in tone. Simply not designed, that way. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derosa01 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Too "Bassey" compared to what?! That's a semi-deep bodied guitar, and hollow. It's meant to be "mellower" (some might say "bassey") by design. You've had good suggestions, already, as to adjusting pickup heights, and/or changing pickups, caps, pots, etc. However, it will never be a "Les Paul," or "SG" in tone. Simply not designed, that way. So...??? CB Hey CB, Yes I get exactly what you mean . I have the ES135, a Les Paul, a Telecatser, etc. and undertsand completely. Basicaly the lower end on this guitar "takes over". There isn't a balance to the sound produced. If I bring in the E and or A string that simply is all you hear, especially at any volume. Basically I am playng a four string instrument. I bought the guitar to get that "mellow", "woodsey", "mid" tone. I.E Wes Montgomery, Herb Ellis, et al. Granted it isn't a $3000 L5 or ES 175, but somehting just isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hey CB, Yes I get exactly what you mean . I have the ES135, a Les Paul, a Telecatser, etc. and undertsand completely. Basicaly the lower end on this guitar "takes over". There isn't a balance to the sound produced. If I bring in the E and or A string that simply is all you hear, especially at any volume. Basically I am playng a four string instrument. I bought the guitar to get that "mellow", "woodsey", "mid" tone. I.E Wes Montgomery, Herb Ellis, et al. Granted it isn't a $3000 L5 or ES 175, but somehting just isn't right. Gotcha...well, in that case, I'd take it in, to a good guitar tech, see if there's anything "wrong" with the pickups, wiring, pots, etc. If not, maybe try some "Classic 57's," with appropriate wiring/pots and cap changes. If that still doesn't do it, for you, maybe a "Dot," Sheraton, or some other model, will? Good Luck, with whatever you end up doing! Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You've not told us how the guitar compares acoustically to electrically tone wise. If you get a "balanced" sound out of it unplugged, then the electronics are your problem. A couple hundred bucks worth of American made parts should solve your problem. If the guitar is extremely bass heavy unplugged, there's probably not much you can do about it, electronically, or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Ya know, derosa01; Those JPs are nice guitars......So aren't "Artcores", but, the JPs are REALLY nice.....IMHO, your problem ARE the stock Epi pickups.....Now, I'm not familiar with Semour Duncan PUs yet, although I recently joined the S.D. forum !!!!! I DO know Gibby Classic 57s.... And, I KNOW putting in a pair of Gibby 57s will bring your JP to life with a smooth clear awesome tone.......I haven't played a Fender Blues Jr. in a while, but I owned a Peavey Valve King for a year...Both are nice amps......IMHO, Epi makes a great guitar like the JP, then puts Epi PUs in it..........IMHO, Gibby 57s will turn your JP into a tone monster.....Cheapest prices I know are at "AmplifiedParts", or, used on the web......... ( I tend to put real Gibby PUs in most of my Epis........ [thumbup] .....Usually a world of difference....In a hollow like a JP, huge difference...)..... Also, IMHO, changing caps won't improve "sub par" Epi pickups.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Also, IMHO, changing caps won't improve "sub par" Epi pickups.............. Changing the tone caps will only make a difference when the tone control isn't dimed, the cap trick I linked to earlier though will work all the time, it's actually putting a low-pass filter between the pups and the volume controls. Another way to brighten up a guitar is to use stainless steel strings, they'll also add a bit of definition. And don't forget, try and adjust the pups further away from the strings, not closer. I know that changing the pups will give the greatest yield, but it's worth trying the little things first, they cost bugger all, are easy to do, and don't take a lot of time to experiment with. By all means if you have money to burn just go straight to the pups, but if your on a budget, then there are a few things you can try before blowing a wad of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I know the stock epiphone PUs can definitely be improved on, and I certainly would like to drop a set of gibsons on there, but I would say that my stock PUs do produce 'that "mellow", "woodsey", "mid" tone.' are you the original owner? perhaps the previous owner did something foolish or there is a loose wire somewhere inside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You've not told us how the guitar compares acoustically to electrically tone wise. If you get a "balanced" sound out of it unplugged, then the electronics are your problem. A couple hundred bucks worth of American made parts should solve your problem. If the guitar is extremely bass heavy unplugged, there's probably not much you can do about it, electronically, or otherwise. Yes, you really need to hear this post and take it to heart. START WITH THE ACOUSTIC TONE. If you can't get it unplugged, do not proceed to step 2. There are a few things that can be done for the acoustic sound though. String type, string gauge, and even brand will have an impact always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derosa01 Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thank you everyone for the replies, thoughts and advice. It is appreciated. The guitar sounds fine acoustically. Main reason I bought it when I did. I couldn't plug it in, but the sound acoustically was nice and posts here made it sort of a "no brainer". Plus the price was right. Even with flatwounds the overall tone acoustically is full and balanced. D'Addario EXL110 gives a bit more on the treble side, but is still nice...again acoustically. I actually use it acoustically when giving guitar lessons. It seems as if everything is pointing to new pickups. Not the road I really wanted to travel with a budget and such, but I have tried everything else mentioned here. I have a 76 goldtop Gibson Les Paul and Fender Tele for rock stuff I do, but I gig playing jazz which I have been using a Epi Sheraton 2 with a Seymour Duncan Jeff Beck in the bridge position. I bought the Joe Pass since I needed something to give me more of the classic "jazz sound" that the Sheraton can't quite do...for me anyway Just some background on where I am coming from. Again, everyone, thanks for all of the input. http://www.smoothjazzrx.com (Sheraton II) http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Backseat-Disciples-TM/242758742429115 (Les Paul) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 sounds good... is one pickup more bassy than the other? I find my neck pickup on my casino is way more bassy than the bridge, to the point where I spent an hour tweaking it (and the amp) tonight...perhaps you could get away with swapping out only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 There is lots of love for Semour Duncans.....I'm still learning about them......... Nice website and band by the way........I still think a set of Gibby Classic 57s would do it for you and your sound............. If you try out a set of 57s, and you don't like them, I'll buy them from you at your cost....( That's how confident I am in them.....).. I still find them the cheapest at AmplifiedParts............( Just throwing out that option there for you.........Damian.....)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 but I have tried everything else mentioned here What, you've wired in caps to be used as low-pass filters on the pickup's hot lead ??? It'd cost less than $10 to try this. Check THIS thread out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 What, you've wired in caps to be used as low-pass filters on the pickup's hot lead ??? ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If the acoustic tone is to your liking, and the electric tone is not, that is a strong case for upgrading the electronics. Asian electronics are notorious for being sub-par, and in the end, chances are better you will be left with a better sounding guitar if you take a guitar you like and upgrade there rather than buy another. Another thing: You mention the tone of Montgomery and Metheny. Both of these guys have what sounds to me a very bass heavy, dark tone. I might get the impression that the tone of their guitars might be very close to the tone you are getting from your guitar now, but the secret might be in how they play them. (maybe, maybe not-just something to consider). I think also, there is a tendency to want mistake frequency for clarity. If you have a very bass-heavy sound, or a dark sound, it may sound like mud because the QUALITY of the sound is preventing a guy from hearing good note separation or note definition. It seems logical that one would hear more by brightening the tonality or adding treble in an effort to hear more definition. But sometimes it is better to try and get better note definition by improving the quality. I haven't personally compared a lot of humbucker pickups, so I can't really give a good account to you on one vs the other. But I can comment that a low output pup is generally going to have more fidelity and clarity. I have read somewhere on this forum of a guy who used both a Duncan and a Gibby pup in the same guitar, and found the Gibby to be less dark, and of the guitars I have tried, I might tend to think the Gibby pups lean a little brighter than others. Also, I think wiring and pot/cap quality makes a big difference with Gibby guitars. And these parts are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derosa01 Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 What, you've wired in caps to be used as low-pass filters on the pickup's hot lead ??? It'd cost less than $10 to try this. Check THIS thread out. Oops, no I have not tried this. I will give it a shot before deciding on pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The stock Epi PU's can always be improved upon. Look for a set of Seymour Duncans (not 'Duncan Designed'); get them used on eBay and you can often find them for half price (which is how I get most of mine). For a bassy guitar, a Duncan Jazz set would be ideal, bright and clear, and without a lot of low end. I had a Joe Pass a few years ago, and it was very warm-toned too. In your set up, you can also moderate the low end, by raising the pole pieces of the neck PU, and then lowering the PU on the bass side. I've done this with Duncan '59's, which are known for being bassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If the acoustic tone is to your liking, and the electric tone is not, that is a strong case for upgrading the electronics. I think also, there is a tendency to want mistake frequency for clarity. If you have a very bass-heavy sound, or a dark sound, it may sound like mud because the QUALITY of the sound is preventing a guy from hearing good note separation or note definition. It seems logical that one would hear more by brightening the tonality or adding treble in an effort to hear more definition. But sometimes it is better to try and get better note definition by improving the quality. I can comment that a low output pup is generally going to have more fidelity and clarity. I have read somewhere on this forum of a guy who used both a Duncan and a Gibby pup in the same guitar, and found the Gibby to be less dark, and of the guitars I have tried, I might tend to think the Gibby pups lean a little brighter than others. In conjunction with Stein's thoughts; One problem with the stock Epi PUs isn't that they're too bassy...The problem is that they lack highs......... :unsure: ...... Gibby 57s are well balanced.......AND, they have crystal clear highs........That's why I suggest installing them in your J.P........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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