Markini Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 "As for the original question, my experience has been that nearly 100% of the people that slag 70's fenders were conceived at proms and weddings I played in the 70's, and have no idea what they are talking about." rct I too played in the 70s (and 60s) I played with two different bands. We wanted to buy Fender Strtocasters, but unfortunately the majority were just sub standard builds. Oh yeah and that neck, just terrible keeping it in intonation and straight. Thats why groups I played in purchased Fernandez and Electra Strats (lawsuit guitars). In regard to your comment above. That is a pretty arrogant statement. But i am sure in your vast experience you know what is best for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 "As for the original question, my experience has been that nearly 100% of the people that slag 70's fenders were conceived at proms and weddings I played in the 70's, and have no idea what they are talking about." rct I too played in the 70s (and 60s) I played with two different bands. We wanted to buy Fender Strtocasters, but unfortunately the majority were just sub standard builds. Oh yeah and that neck, just terrible keeping it in intonation and straight. Thats why groups I played in purchased Fernandez and Electra Strats (lawsuit guitars). In regard to your comment above. That is a pretty arrogant statement. But i am sure in your vast experience you know what is best for the rest of us. I don't at all recall Ferndandez and StLouis Music being involved in any way in any "lawsuit" from that time. Your experience was yours, mine was mine. The many groups I played in used Fenders and Gibsons. You went out and you found a good one, same as today. The crappy ones were there, same as today, it was no different. I made no statements about knowing what is good for anyone. Arrogance? You don't see arrogance in some punk repeating what he read on the internet without ever using, owning, gigging, fixing, breaking, trading, and selling 70's fenders? I sure do. I've had 18 year old kids in music stores school me on how bad 70's fenders were. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markini Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I don't at all recall Ferndandez and StLouis Music being involved in any way in any "lawsuit" from that time. Your experience was yours, mine was mine. The many groups I played in used Fenders and Gibsons. You went out and you found a good one, same as today. The crappy ones were there, same as today, it was no different. I made no statements about knowing what is good for anyone. Arrogance? You don't see arrogance in some punk repeating what he read on the internet without ever using, owning, gigging, fixing, breaking, trading, and selling 70's fenders? I sure do. I've had 18 year old kids in music stores school me on how bad 70's fenders were. rct Yeah I can relate about the 18 year olds. And I am sure there are good 70s Fenders out there. In regard to lawsuit guitars, Fernandez was essentially making a counterfeit Fender Strat, albeit a good one. I believe it was the late 70s or early 80s. U.S. Customs based in New York City was confiscating all Fernandezs they could find coming in from Japan. They would take bolt cutters and cut the necks off and then dump them somewhere in the harbor, this was before stricter environmental laws on polluting the Ocean. In regard to Electra they were given a Cease and Desist order from Fender, I don't know if that ever made it to court. But the Fernandez's were outlawed. Just a thought it maybe also because the name resembled 'Fender". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yeah I can relate about the 18 year olds. And I am sure there are good 70s Fenders out there. In regard to lawsuit guitars, Fernandez was essentially making a counterfeit Fender Strat, albeit a good one. I believe it was the late 70s or early 80s. U.S. Customs based in New York City was confiscating all Fernandezs they could find coming in from Japan. They would take bolt cutters and cut the necks off and then dump them somewhere in the harbor, this was before stricter environmental laws on polluting the Ocean. In regard to Electra they were given a Cease and Desist order from Fender, I don't know if that ever made it to court. But the Fernandez's were outlawed. Just a thought it maybe also because the name resembled 'Fender". Oh yeah, I had quite a few great 70's Fenders and wish I had them back. All my buds had some pretty great guitars, I seem to have more pictures of me using theirs than me using mine. As I recall it, and I may be wrong, the headstock cuts were a few Ibanez. It was done to indicate that there could be penalties for violating Fenders(and Gibsons presumably) service marks, scripts, and headstock shapes. And it was only a few, just to demonstrate. I remember the Fernandez strats, but I don't remember the headstocks. LoveRock and the gold Ibanez script on fender knockoffs are what I remember, and the reasons for legal action that I remember. I had an Electra Pheonix in the 80's. Great guitar, I don't know why I got rid of it. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Just a personal opinion here... I think both Fender and Gibson were kinda exhausted as companies at the close of the '60s and entry of the 70s. Note that Kay and Harmony just plain went out of business. The 50s and then 60s saw more guitars being sold than anyone ever would have imagined thanks to the folkie thing and then the birth of the rock guitar band. Meanwhile in Japan their postwar economic comeback saw the booming guitar business as an opportunity. Some of the earlier Japanese stuff was worse than horrid. Then in the so-called "lawsuit" era when Fender and Gibson QC was said to be low and prices were high, some really nice Japanese stuff started coming across the pond. Ibanez, for example, had some great Gibson knockoffs that were apparently identical except for headstamps and such and at far less than the Gibson products - and they got hit with a Gibson lawsuit which is why their guitars look sufficiently different from Gibbie after that period. With all due respect, I don't think either Fender or Gibson were particularly healthy as companies in the '70s as they really "went corporate." By healthy, I don't mean physical or financial in one sense, but more that the biz had gone through a psychologically exhausting period that left any management breathing deeply while sitting crosseyed. My guess is that Martin survived 'cuz there were enough family members around. Then we saw some changes in management at F and G, and that seemed to have brought some major improvements in quality we enjoy today - even in lower-end F and Squire lines for F, and Epi and some low-end G instruments. The high end electric Gibsons to me have only the small shops in the same quality category. Fender's acoustics are placed against Epi price tags; Gibson acoustics against Martin and a few growing "new guys" making the shift from small to larger shops. Both CBS and Norlin management never seemed to get it for the guitar biz. I don't know about Fender, but at Gibson I think HenryJ's youthful guitar picking and adult corporate experience seems to have brought some good working business compromises of quality, price and extended product offering corporate-wide. Nothing's perfect, though. I do think the current designs of both companies are such classics that there's a huge challenge to keep building on that foundation through some interesting potential changes in the biz. For what it's worth, one might note Martin offerings currently wouldn't have been believed 20 years ago, and definitely not 40 years ago. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Actually Fender was putting out such low quality guitars in the late 70s (not just strats) that they turned to a Japanese manufacture to build them under the contract. The Japanese used Starts from the 50s and 60s as models and turned out a superior guitar compared to Fender (CBS). The Japanese Fenders were used by the new management, (after CBS) as templates. Many guitarists think that the old Japanese licensed Strats are a superior product even today and have quite a following. I have a '89 MIJ Strat and can attest to its sweet tone and playability. Note: I went to buy a Strat in the early 80s. I played about 4 of em, all sucked. Heck the neck edges would almost cut your fretting hand, very uncomfortable and poorly made guitar, ended up buying an Electra MIJ with triple HBs.(rip off of a Gibson Custom). My favorite 3 electrics are Strats, PRS SC SEs and LPs. I like them all equally. Hey M, I bought an Electra back in 79. Beautiful les paul copy. It ended up being a reak workhorse for me. It had those modules inside the back of the guitar for different sound effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I do dig the looks because I grew up listening to Ritchie Blackmore, for a long time (before I knew anything about guitars)I wondered why some Strats had a smaller headstock. The finish on this one is nitro, feels harder than the 60's Mustang my brother owned at one time but it was definitely nitro, part of the the back of this guitar came in contact with something that made the finish melt down to the sealer. I don't think polyester can be melted like that. Fender/CBS started using poly finishes as of 1968/69. But the undercoats were thin, and more like the old nitro finishes. Fast forward to around 72/73, and the undercoats were thicker. Fast forward to 1977/78, the undercoats were thicker than Joe Bonamassa's guitar tone..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Well, then I am puzzled as to what could possibly melt a poly finish like that, More puzzling is that the finish on this guitar definitely feels like nitro on my hands, Also, looking at the similar guitars on eBay they have finish checking, you can't get that with poly right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Well, then I am puzzled as to what could possibly melt a poly finish like that, More puzzling is that the finish on this guitar definitely feels like nitro on my hands, Also, looking at the similar guitars on eBay they have finish checking, you can't get that with poly right? They were very inconsistent. Some were very hard and thick, and some were the opposite. What year is this guitar you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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